Should Fisher Be The HC In 2016?
- Thread starter RAGRam
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Not having a QB in position to win is a 1 year excuse not a 3 year excuse. The truth is we may be closer to a winning team with Fisher than without him due to the certain player turnover that comes with a coaching change.
On a bit of a side note, after the game against the Bears I went to work on Monday and like a typical LA group of co workers 10 of us in total. I am the only Ram fan we have Eagles, Browns, Broncos etc.... and a Bears fan. My co worker and friend that is a bears fan a great guy and very intelligent football guy did not say a word to me until I decided to ask the obvious ? Did you watch the game. He said yes of course, we chatted he even talked about the bad calls on G Rob, We agreed that he has a rep now and is in the cross hairs.Toward the end he asks me "Are You Guys Always So Undisciplined" we all know the answer is yes and with such lack of discipline will come games lost due to this behavior.
That behavior is on the Coaching to some degree.
On a bit of a side note, after the game against the Bears I went to work on Monday and like a typical LA group of co workers 10 of us in total. I am the only Ram fan we have Eagles, Browns, Broncos etc.... and a Bears fan. My co worker and friend that is a bears fan a great guy and very intelligent football guy did not say a word to me until I decided to ask the obvious ? Did you watch the game. He said yes of course, we chatted he even talked about the bad calls on G Rob, We agreed that he has a rep now and is in the cross hairs.Toward the end he asks me "Are You Guys Always So Undisciplined" we all know the answer is yes and with such lack of discipline will come games lost due to this behavior.
That behavior is on the Coaching to some degree.
Since when is the point of a thread like this anything other than calling out the coach and trying to get people to raise their pitchforks and torches? Not sure I'd call it interesting, just a tiresome exercise.
I both agree and disagree with different parts of your post, flv.
First, the mild disagreement...
As I understand it, Snead's job is to identify player talent. But the catch is that he is required to find the "Fisher type" of players, then Fisher makes the final decisions.
I think Snead has done a fine job and is holding up his end quite well. So, to me, Snead is a definite keeper doing a terrific job while Fisher ties one of his hands behind his back. Snead has to present a public united front, of course. But hardly Fisher's fanboy.
Now here's where we definitely agree...
Fisher, on the other hand, has chosen to load the D side of the ball at the expense of the O side. Someone recently posted that our D contains 7 firsts, 3 seconds, and 2 thirds among it's starters and primary rotational players. No wonder they are a strong unit, huh?
Meanwhile, Fisher's O has only 2 players that could be described as above average. And one of them is a gadget player. Under Fisher, the O is a relative orphan. There are a small handful of premium draft picks on Fisher's O, but few could be described as studs so far in their careers. In short, fewer resources have gone to the O and they were poorer picks or improperly developed. Or both.
So I completely agree that Fisher's Achilles heel is clearly the O side of the ball from talent selection to coaching decisions. The results speak for themselves.
He'll never do it, but he would be well advised to hire a strong OC and then give him virtual autonomy with regard to his O. A Turner, Chudzinski, or Gase type. Fisher should be kept as far away from the O as possible, if you ask me.
Bottom line, unless Fisher's team has an amazing final 7 games and gets into the playoffs, I would fire him. I would retain Snead and have Snead hire Fisher's replacement. I would encourage GW to stay, if he and the new HC were compatible.
This team is unlikely to get to the next level under Fisher. Might as well cut the cord.
We could do worse and we could do better. With Fisher we'll always have weak offenses. But the defense will be good. They'll offset each other to the point of close to .500 ball.
Another coach could come in and screw everything up like Linehan did. Or he could reap the benefits of what Fisher built and put it all together like Harbaugh did with the whiners. Maybe just a tweak here and there.
So do we take what Fisher brings? A team with defensive talent but no offense? At least it prevents us from being a laughing stock. Or do we take a chance of maybe someone getting us over that hump? Or then again someone who takes us back to the days of high picks and double digit losses.
Another coach could come in and screw everything up like Linehan did. Or he could reap the benefits of what Fisher built and put it all together like Harbaugh did with the whiners. Maybe just a tweak here and there.
So do we take what Fisher brings? A team with defensive talent but no offense? At least it prevents us from being a laughing stock. Or do we take a chance of maybe someone getting us over that hump? Or then again someone who takes us back to the days of high picks and double digit losses.
You act like Greg Robinson as if he's some major liablity. He's not. He's just not. He has his issues, no doubt but don't pretend like he's getting beaten and knocked on his ass each play.
Besides, if you were right and the whipping boy Greg Robinson is as bad as people say, why in the hell would the other trade up to get him? He was gonna get picked in the top 5 no matter what.
They rushed him back? He had almost a full year to rehab and sat out the 1st 2 preseason games. They signed a guy who was a veteran QB who wasn't expected to play more than a few games at most (if any). It's not like you can get any better at *backup* QB.
Speaking of Austin Davis, it's amazing this coaching staff had the team even in a position to win with our backup and 3rd string QBs. That's why I'm not worried about Nick Foles or Case Keenum. I just hate the inconsistency at that position.
Finally, the OL was NOT bad. They got hurt. All of them except Greg Robinson.
Did Cleveland offer anything else besides a 1st? If not, I can see why they chose Philly's offer instead. Besides, this is a non issue for me. The draft is so overanalyzed when the actual reality is it's a legit crap shoot. I could really care less about that stuff.
The worst OL in the league? Not even close. I think it's just your view on Jeff Fisher that's clouding that judgement.
Nick Foles wasn't that bad until GB. not coincidentally the only real bad game by the OL. And are the WRs issues all on them or on the QB play? I think it's both.
Now they are getting a guy on IR every week it seems. It's nice when they say they won't use the "e" word but let's be real here, injuries do affect the team.
I just wonder how many more Ws this team would've had if Brandon Gibson doesn't get called for illegal formation in SF, Shaun Hill not throwing the INT in San Diego, or not being flagged for bogus holdings or roughing calls. These plays highlight the shit that went against the Rams favor, and I don't think simply calling for Jeff Fisher to go will solve that.
Foles was playing pretty good up until the GB game, not great but good. I have been wondering if he has been injured from the hit Matthews put on him? Have he and the team just been trying to play through it?
With the status of the oline I don't think any coach could get this team to the playoffs. If they had stayed healthy all year I think right now we are 6-3 minimum even with a banged up Foles.
Angry Ram dont put words into my mouth. He's not a huge liability. Is that what you expect from your 2nd overall pick? The guy at the same position as him drafted several spots lower than him is already making a big impact on his team.
Grob should be showing signs of dominating at that pick and position. You can look around the league and find starting tackles drafted in the later rounds who "arent a liability". I expect far more from the 2nd overall pick and from this front office when every year I look back and keep seeing franchise QBs drafted in the later parts of round 1 and 2, and us spending picks on projects and trading for QBs who are worse than the one we already had.
Fisher has already received far longer than most do, and its looking to be another average season at best.
Grob should be showing signs of dominating at that pick and position. You can look around the league and find starting tackles drafted in the later rounds who "arent a liability". I expect far more from the 2nd overall pick and from this front office when every year I look back and keep seeing franchise QBs drafted in the later parts of round 1 and 2, and us spending picks on projects and trading for QBs who are worse than the one we already had.
Fisher has already received far longer than most do, and its looking to be another average season at best.
Well then why criticize the FO for not trading down implying they should've taken someone else? As for what the #2 pick does, I don't care about that stuff. I really don't. Dude just turned 23 in a game dominated by veterans. He's going to take his lumps. It's not an easy spot to play. Jake Matthews has also had his issues too. Not like he's Jon Ogden 2.0.
He has. I don't care what other tackles are doing. It's not projects btw, it's development. I think I'm gonna put that word (project) as another one the critics love to use, right along with the "e" word when something doesn't go right or as planned.
He doesn't deserve to go. The team has not once, ever shown signs of packing it in or going through the motions. That's a reflection of coaching.
Nah. He was extremely inconsistent to that point. And has fallen completely apart since then.
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Then delete the thread, I was genuinely curious as to people's opinions, but apparently you know my intentions better than me.
The Rams have invested high draft picks and big free agent resources into the offense. The problem is the only real hit has been Gurley.
2 Robinson- A very raw LT who played in a gimmick college offense where they don't have many plays and the QB rarely drops back to pass. Loads of physical talent but sushi raw with bad technique. I am in no way writing him off. I view this year as more of his rookie year due to the fact he was so raw. Robinson and Quick are very similar picks. Hope this one ends better.
8 Austin- Yeah he is a solid contributing player on offense. He isn't a pure WR, he still struggles with routes, he isn't a pure RB because he is too small. He is a gadget player who has made big plays for us, but lacks the skill to be a consistent contributor every drive. His below average route running really bothers me. He had the physical ability to stop on a dime and change directions easily. I thought he would be Amendola/Welker, but with 4.2 speed. That is deadly and worth trading up to 8 for. He hasn't been that and isn't that good in the slot. He is an undersized outside WR, which is fine, but he isn't a top tier or even mid tier WR in the league. He is a good gadget player though. At least he contributes.
10 Gurley- Absolute stud. A grand slam draft pick.
33 Quick- I can't tell you how much I hated the pick at the time. I was so mad. The guys I wanted was Fleener or Randle, so it's not like I had them picking big time difference makers. In pure hindsight the second round should have been Cordy Glenn, Jenkins, Jeffrey. But there will be for sure misses in drafts, back to Quick. He showed a bit why he was drafted at 33 last year, but this year he is back to being pretty irrelevant. I don't know if it's due to the injury or what. I'm hoping the final 7 games they throw him out on the field and feed him the ball. That being said Quick has been a major disappointment.
50 Pead- The absolute worst pick of the Fisher/Snead era. Did absolutely nothing on the field and we traded down missing out great talent to get him. Alshon Jeffrey was picked with our pick we traded down from. We could have definately used him. Our two targets were Wagoner and Kendricks. The Wagoner pick has multiple contingents that really hurt. First Wagoner is a great player that would have really helped us. Had we picked Wagoner we wouldn't have had to draft Ogletree, allowing us to pick Warford with that pick. So more holes would have been filled. The third kick in the balls is Seattle wouldn't have gotten him and he is a huge key for their defense. Pead is the worst Rams pick.
57 Havenstien- He has been solid at RT. I hated the pick at the time, but he has played well. He has been the best second round offensive pick from Snead and Fisher.
Third Rounders- we have drafted some nice third round offensive players. No difference makers, but nice solid players.
Big time free agents are usually overpaid and bust. That's not a Snead/Fisher problem, that's just a reality in the NFL.
2 Robinson- A very raw LT who played in a gimmick college offense where they don't have many plays and the QB rarely drops back to pass. Loads of physical talent but sushi raw with bad technique. I am in no way writing him off. I view this year as more of his rookie year due to the fact he was so raw. Robinson and Quick are very similar picks. Hope this one ends better.
8 Austin- Yeah he is a solid contributing player on offense. He isn't a pure WR, he still struggles with routes, he isn't a pure RB because he is too small. He is a gadget player who has made big plays for us, but lacks the skill to be a consistent contributor every drive. His below average route running really bothers me. He had the physical ability to stop on a dime and change directions easily. I thought he would be Amendola/Welker, but with 4.2 speed. That is deadly and worth trading up to 8 for. He hasn't been that and isn't that good in the slot. He is an undersized outside WR, which is fine, but he isn't a top tier or even mid tier WR in the league. He is a good gadget player though. At least he contributes.
10 Gurley- Absolute stud. A grand slam draft pick.
33 Quick- I can't tell you how much I hated the pick at the time. I was so mad. The guys I wanted was Fleener or Randle, so it's not like I had them picking big time difference makers. In pure hindsight the second round should have been Cordy Glenn, Jenkins, Jeffrey. But there will be for sure misses in drafts, back to Quick. He showed a bit why he was drafted at 33 last year, but this year he is back to being pretty irrelevant. I don't know if it's due to the injury or what. I'm hoping the final 7 games they throw him out on the field and feed him the ball. That being said Quick has been a major disappointment.
50 Pead- The absolute worst pick of the Fisher/Snead era. Did absolutely nothing on the field and we traded down missing out great talent to get him. Alshon Jeffrey was picked with our pick we traded down from. We could have definately used him. Our two targets were Wagoner and Kendricks. The Wagoner pick has multiple contingents that really hurt. First Wagoner is a great player that would have really helped us. Had we picked Wagoner we wouldn't have had to draft Ogletree, allowing us to pick Warford with that pick. So more holes would have been filled. The third kick in the balls is Seattle wouldn't have gotten him and he is a huge key for their defense. Pead is the worst Rams pick.
57 Havenstien- He has been solid at RT. I hated the pick at the time, but he has played well. He has been the best second round offensive pick from Snead and Fisher.
Third Rounders- we have drafted some nice third round offensive players. No difference makers, but nice solid players.
Big time free agents are usually overpaid and bust. That's not a Snead/Fisher problem, that's just a reality in the NFL.
Not only QB, but we need better WR play. We also need our line to mature a bit and play better.
Again IMO, I think most of understand the magnitude of the job that Jeff Fisher and Les Snead undertook and for the most part things have been solid and the Rams are no longer looked upon being a joke of a franchise. Snead has also put together a scouting staff both pro and college that has been a huge upgrade over the past, but his budget was higher with ESK as owner as opposed to Georgia and the Chip transition team.
IMO Fisher has to make some major changes on the offensive side of the ball, he needs to bring in a bona fide offensive play caller, Frank Cignetti is a nice guy, but this is a results business and Cig has not gotten the results so these are changes at the very minimum I would make on offense.
Offensive Coordinator...Really like Ken Whisenhunt for this gig because his system coincides with Fisher's philosophy and Whiz has been very successful as a play caller with Pittsburgh and San Diego add in that he's now been fired twice as a Head Coach and his tenure will not be shortened for that reason.
Offensive Line....Paul Boudreau's second stint as OL coach has been checkered at best health issues notwithstanding. IMO, it's time to go in another direction and there should be some quality OL coaches available with coaching changes looming on the horizon.
Wide Receivers...I'm just tired of Ray Sherman because what has he really done over the past several years as a coach? The Ram receivers are always a work in progress and continue to come up short. It's just time to find somebody that can teach and develop because God knows, it's been a long time since Sherman has achieved that.
Add in that maybe Chris Weinke heads to college and I would keep Jeff Garcia and make him the QB coach because I just feel he offers more because of the passion and the fact that he's had some success in the NFL and again JMHO.
IMO Fisher has to make some major changes on the offensive side of the ball, he needs to bring in a bona fide offensive play caller, Frank Cignetti is a nice guy, but this is a results business and Cig has not gotten the results so these are changes at the very minimum I would make on offense.
Offensive Coordinator...Really like Ken Whisenhunt for this gig because his system coincides with Fisher's philosophy and Whiz has been very successful as a play caller with Pittsburgh and San Diego add in that he's now been fired twice as a Head Coach and his tenure will not be shortened for that reason.
Offensive Line....Paul Boudreau's second stint as OL coach has been checkered at best health issues notwithstanding. IMO, it's time to go in another direction and there should be some quality OL coaches available with coaching changes looming on the horizon.
Wide Receivers...I'm just tired of Ray Sherman because what has he really done over the past several years as a coach? The Ram receivers are always a work in progress and continue to come up short. It's just time to find somebody that can teach and develop because God knows, it's been a long time since Sherman has achieved that.
Add in that maybe Chris Weinke heads to college and I would keep Jeff Garcia and make him the QB coach because I just feel he offers more because of the passion and the fact that he's had some success in the NFL and again JMHO.
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