VENT Seahawks Vent Thread
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The whistle blew for sure. I'm not sure if the backward pass rules are the same as the fumble rules. This is what it says under backwards pass:
Article 1. Backward Pass
A runner may throw a backward pass at any time (3-21-4). Players of either team may advance after catching a backward pass, or recovering a backward pass after it touches the ground. Any snap from center is a backward pass.
This is for fumbles:
Article 6. Fumble After Two-Minute Warning
If a fumble by either team occurs after the two- minute warning or during a Try:
The ball may be advanced by any opponent.
The player who fumbled is the only player of his team who is permitted to recover and advance the ball.
If the recovery or catch is by a teammate of the player who fumbled, the ball is dead, and the spot of the next snap is the spot of the fumble, or the spot of the recovery if the spot of the recovery is behind the spot of the fumble.
2025 NFL Rulebook | NFL Football Operations
Explore the official 2025 NFL rulebook.operations.nfl.com
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1pqdetw/explaining_the_2point_conversion_ruling_in_the/
Explaining the 2-Point Conversion Ruling in the Seahawks Rams Game
There has been some confusion on the ruling behind the two-point conversion.
The most relevant rule to this situation is Rule 15, Section 2, Article 3: Awarding Possession
"When the on-field ruling results in a dead ball (e.g., score, down by contact, incomplete pass, etc.), and following replay review, it is determined that possession was lost before the ball should have been ruled dead, possession may be awarded to a player who clearly recovers a loose ball in the immediate continuing action. A loose ball that touches out of bounds is deemed a clear recovery by the player who last possessed the ball."
The specific situation observed on the 2-point conversion is covered in Rule 15, Section 3, Article 11, Item 1. Direction of a Pass. Whether a pass was forward or backward.
"When an on-field ruling is incomplete, and the pass was clearly backward, the ruling of incomplete will stand if there is no clear recovery in the immediate continuing action. If there is no clear recovery, the ball will be awarded to the team last in possession at the spot where possession was lost."
In this situation, the play was blown dead when the officials ruled initially that the pass was incomplete. However, the ball should have been considered a loose ball due to it being a backwards pass, with Charbonnet picking up the ball in the immediate action. Even though the play was initially called dead, it was still considered a recovery that review would be able to grant to Charbonnet, which resulted in the ruling of recovery of the ball in the endzone resulting in a successful try.
However, some people have pointed to Rule 8, Section 7, Article 6. Fumble After Two-Minute Warning
"If a fumble by either team occurs after the two- minute warning or during a Try:
- The ball may be advanced by any opponent.
- The player who fumbled is the only player of his team who is permitted to recover and advance the ball.
- If the recovery or catch is by a teammate of the player who fumbled, the ball is dead, and the spot of the next snap is the spot of the fumble, or the spot of the recovery if the spot of the recovery is behind the spot of the fumble."
The rulebook makes a clear distinction between backwards passes and fumbles throughout its text, and even though both can result in loose balls that can be recovered and advanced by either team, they are treated differently in the application of this rule. This distinction is why you can get miracles at the end of games as players lateral the ball to each other, since if this rule also applied to laterals then there could be no advancement of the ball on those plays.
The ball was considered a loose ball that resulted from a backwards pass, not a fumble, and as such it could be recovered and advanced in the endzone resulting in a touchdown.
If Seattle beats Carolina, and SF wins their next 2, we will have no shot at the division in week 18. I’d bet McVay does what he did last year and rests Stafford and some other guys. If we are playing on the road, he won’t care about the seed. He’d rather have guys fresh.
I’ve seen some blaming the defense a bunch and the offense some.
Not buying it.
Hold a team to six points under their average and force 3 turnovers? Did their job.
Offense? 581 yards.. 30 points on the road against a team averaging 18 on D.
Missed FG & Punt return TD. Look no further.
Not buying it.
Hold a team to six points under their average and force 3 turnovers? Did their job.
Offense? 581 yards.. 30 points on the road against a team averaging 18 on D.
Missed FG & Punt return TD. Look no further.
I appreciate the explanation. I still call bullshit. All the other players stopped because they reasonably believed the play was dead. Charbonnet walking his ass over and picking it up after the whistle should not qualify as "immediate continuing action." If the whistle hadn't blown and the refs let it play out, I'd feel differently.
Yeah, I guess it depends on the definition of "immediate continuing action."
It was definitely a "loose ball" and therefore legal to be recovered in the EZ for 2-points.
But it is indeed true that a whistle sounded loudly almost right after the ball hit the ground.
The ref who made the quick whistle fucked up. I think they're taught these days to be "slow" with the whistle if there's any chance that a seemingly "incomplete pass" is actually "a fumble or a lateral."
I bet this play will receive plenty more analysis in the coming week.
I hate the outcome. But to me, the whistle never should have blown in the first place. Charbonnet was the only guy close enough to try to recover it. Was it "immediate continuing action" is the language that needs clarification, IMO.
Its as if that rule is designed to protect the refs.
Players stop when the whistle is blown. Or they risk other penalties.
The league needs to get a hold of this problem.
So why are you here ?
This team with average special teams is 14-1. We have the best record in the NFL against winning teams. Does anyone else have a better record against the good teams ? Nope
So why not us ?
You could make the case we won the last SB with a worse team.
McVay's teams have done this on offense and defense for the last 9 years. It's not Shula.
I just got my first look at that 2 point conversion, what a bunch of bullshit. The Seahawk player alone just walking up to it and picking it up knowing to him what was a dead ball tells you all you need to know.
The refs fucked us.
When every player on the field thinks a very important play goes one way, but the some eye in the sky says the opposite, what the FUCK is going on ?
The refs fucked us.
When every player on the field thinks a very important play goes one way, but the some eye in the sky says the opposite, what the FUCK is going on ?
I'm not too pissed because I knew this would be an ugly game due to the quality of the Seattle defense.
What irks me though is we lost too many snaps on the DL on defense. And on offense our OL was damn near incompetent in pass pro. Stafford took a lot of shots from turnstile efforts.
Also on teams Dolac was the last hope tackler and tried ineffectively to push him out of bounds instead of tackling him. Also had the penalty.
But the combination of all those late three 'n outs by the offense, the teams fuckups, and the lack of heat up front on Darnold was effectively a full team loss.
Even Stafford got in on it by not seeing some open targets, though I don't blame him too much given the turnstile blocks and free runners. That said some of them were blitzers which he and the offense handled poorly.
Total team loss though. I am disgusted really, and it's gonna be a long week.
What irks me though is we lost too many snaps on the DL on defense. And on offense our OL was damn near incompetent in pass pro. Stafford took a lot of shots from turnstile efforts.
Also on teams Dolac was the last hope tackler and tried ineffectively to push him out of bounds instead of tackling him. Also had the penalty.
But the combination of all those late three 'n outs by the offense, the teams fuckups, and the lack of heat up front on Darnold was effectively a full team loss.
Even Stafford got in on it by not seeing some open targets, though I don't blame him too much given the turnstile blocks and free runners. That said some of them were blitzers which he and the offense handled poorly.
Total team loss though. I am disgusted really, and it's gonna be a long week.
They played the percentages but Seattle scored 6 points on 2 score conversions, returned a punt and we missed a field goal which is a massive, completely against normal, point swing of 16 points! Throw in the most bizarre, gut wrenching, head scratching decision, I have ever seen in years of watching football, with the play whistled dead, and us kicking off, playing the percentages somehow didn’t work out! I just read that it was a historic defeat for that very reason!
All our defeats had something to do with the referees. That’s not sour grapes but is accurate.
After all this time he still hasn't learned. Does the same old fucking shit.
I dunno man, I'm kinda reminded of the Robert Bailey punt return for a Rams TD back in 1994. Bailey was the only player on the field smart enough to recognise that the ball was a live ball, while everyone else basically stood around. And Bailey scored the 103-yard TD. (link below)
Similarly, last night, Charbonnet was the only player on the field to recognize that it was a live ball (or should have been despite the ref who screwed up with the early whistle). I hate the outcome but gotta admit that Charbonnet made a smart move to grab the ball.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r6yoJssvy-Y
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RamsByTheHorn
UDFA
THAT was the time to ice the game. A couple of 1rst downs there and that game was over.
Nope.
3 and out, give up a punt return TD.
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