Schottey out as OC

[Alan]

-X- talking about my pet peeve:
Would those be bad calls if executed properly? And what if he did exactly what you wanted and that didn't work?

Are you equating whether a play was a good call or a bad call with the success of a play? Where does execution come into the discussion about whether it was a good or bad call? I see where it is critical to the success of a play but that's where I draw the line as far as execution goes. Of course I see that many casual fans look at play calling solely from a success standpoint but I don't think that's a good description of most of our posters.

For me, calling plays that make the best use of your strengths, keeps the defense off balance and have the greatest chance of success in a given situation determines whether a play was a good or a bad call. The same thing goes for your game plan.

There's also the chicken and the egg thing to consider too. When running Tavon up the gut doesn't work out because the blocking wasn't there or Tavon wasn't strong enough to break an arm tackle by a 310 lb DT is that a lack of execution or just bad play calling? I'd say that expecting the Joseph/Wells combo to open a hole for Tavon and the use of Tavon instead of a real RB like Mason make those bad calls. Doesn't the inability to properly use your resources guarantee the execution will frequently be lacking?

 

[Ramhusker]

SO......we hire Scott Frost as OC, trade up for Mariota and draft his C Grasu? That might work.

 

[drasconis]

Sure it does. How can something be complicated and vanilla?

The playbook (and the terminology) is teaching/showing something. Just like with all training materials it can be well done and concise or it can be poorly organized and poorly explained. (Not trying to get into political conversation here just grabbing an example) think about the way common core supposedly teaches basic math compared with how we learned it (I do not know this for fact - just what you see on the "interwebs").

When I was in college I took a electrical engineering class, the professor was bad....very bad...the last day of class was supposed to be a "Review" to prepare for the final. The professor was out sick so the dean came down to do the review. We walked out of that room having learned more in the 2 hours with the dean than the rest of the semester with the professor....exact same material.

That holds true with the terminology he uses, I know some coaches base their terminology on something (zoo creatures, fish, etc.) so there is a pattern for the players mind to lock onto (sort of like the memory tricks you read and hear about for quickly memorizing things).....maybe Schotty used a convaluted and unconnected terminology (possibly to make it more difficult to crack by opposition- so there may be a reason) but this made it much more difficult to remember and learn.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The playbook (and the terminology) is teaching/showing something. Just like with all training materials it can be well done and concise or it can be poorly organized and poorly explained. (Not trying to get into political conversation here just grabbing an example) think about the way common core supposedly teaches basic math compared with how we learned it (I do not know this for fact - just what you see on the "interwebs").

When I was in college I took a electrical engineering class, the professor was bad....very bad...the last day of class was supposed to be a "Review" to prepare for the final. The professor was out sick so the dean came down to do the review. We walked out of that room having learned more in the 2 hours with the dean than the rest of the semester with the professor....exact same material.

That holds true with the terminology he uses, I know some coaches base their terminology on something (zoo creatures, fish, etc.) so there is a pattern for the players mind to lock onto (sort of like the memory tricks you read and hear about for quickly memorizing things).....maybe Schotty used a convaluted and unconnected terminology (possibly to make it more difficult to crack by opposition- so there may be a reason) but this made it much more difficult to remember and learn.

Schotty had trouble teaching his offense to NFL players. Tavon said it was like Chinese. This does not bode well for Schott in college. He may have to make some alterations.

 

[Zaphod]

One thing to keep in mind, is that this is Fisher's offense every bit as much as the next OC's. Ordinarily I wouldn't think for a minute that Fisher will relinquish control of the offensive philosophy any more than he would change up his defensive philosophy. But there was that whole "We're going to change our overall scheme" thing that he said, so....

I don't know, I think that Fisher has a different philosophy defensively than Williams.

It may seem crazy, but I really think that he really wants his coordinators to do their own thing, stepping in when he has to and where he has to, in more of an advisory role.

I don't know, I just feel like it's going to be another exciting year, similar to what we eventually saw from our defense, but that could just be the eternal optimist in me.

When you think about it though, our defense is pretty much there. They've arrived, they have an identity and you can kind of begin to plan an offense around it.

 

[Zaphod]

Another thing to consider is.... Maybe Schottenheimer might have felt he was stuck in the OC position w/o any chance of career movement because of the drab style of the Rams offense we run (3 yards and a spray of rubber.....), by moving back (to a high profile SEC OC) he could actually get traction on getting his own program....NFL or College......

I really think there is some truth in that. He may very well look like a star in college.

I always thought he was very creative, just limited in what he could execute against NFL defenses with the talent he had, offensive line, quarterback, etc ...

 

[Rmfnlt]

My thoughts:

• I am nervous about his replacement
• Not thrilled with the thought of the team learning a new offense
• I worry about a slow start in 2015
• I worry about our ability to recruit being Fisher's 4th season and a lot of pressure to deliver
• Another new O for Sam, or are we considering a change at QB
• I think Schotty got more blame at times than deserved, from myself included
• I found this offense puzzling. Hot and cold. Poor 2nd half adjustments. Predictive tendencies which frustrated me.
• This offense had many years, pre Rams, of below average result. The potential for a more explosive offense makes me somewhat excited about this change
• This seemed like a hard offense to learn
• I wish Brian well. He was a good coach in the media and represented us well

Well said!

 

[Rmfnlt]

That article from Thomas put the whole thing into perspective for me.

Makes sense now... guessing the Mrs. may have had some "input"?


Good move for Schottenheimer... hope he does well.

 

[WoodsideRam]

My issue is I felt like the play calling was all over the map at times. He’d run a play that would have success, and then do a 180 and go completely away from it. Or away from that concept. A run off left tackle for 7 yards on first down, then go empty backfield on 2nd and 3. I never felt like there was a strategy. I never felt like we had an identity. I know you have to keep NFL defenses guessing, I just felt like he tried to get too smart at times. I also think we have some low IQ skill players. Which doesn’t help. But that’s where your OC has to adjust. If you have an idiot TE that can’t block, ie. Jared Cook, then why is he in the backfield watching his man blow up the QB?

I thought this quote from Bart Scott was telling.

Linebacker Bart Scott described Schottenheimer's scheme and knew what the Jets were expecting.

"About the first, second drive, you know what kind of plays you’re going to get and what the theme of the week is," Scott said. "His offense is what you call a grab bag. There’s really no rhyme or reason, but it’s a lot of plays. We knew we had plays that had hurt us and that he’d use them."

 

[DCH]

I've determined my biggest issue with Schottenheimer: he always seemed to have two and a half quarters' worth of ideas in a four-quarter game.

 

[-X-]

maybe Schotty used a convaluted and unconnected terminology (possibly to make it more difficult to crack by opposition- so there may be a reason) but this made it much more difficult to remember and learn.

Anything's possible, I suppose. But suppositions aren't going to get us any closer to the truth. I'm sure as time wears on, players will begin to speak about how he was as a coach and teacher. All we have now is the testimony of Fisher and Bradford who say he was Organized and his system was fairly easy to learn. One's the head coach, and the other is pretty smart in general. It could be possible that other players (namely receivers) who never studied a playbook before had some difficulty with it, but that would follow the normal course of reason.

 

[-X-]

I don't know, I think that Fisher has a different philosophy defensively than Williams.

It may seem crazy, but I really think that he really wants his coordinators to do their own thing, stepping in when he has to and where he has to, in more of an advisory role.

I don't know, I just feel like it's going to be another exciting year, similar to what we eventually saw from our defense, but that could just be the eternal optimist in me.

When you think about it though, our defense is pretty much there. They've arrived, they have an identity and you can kind of begin to plan an offense around it.

They're all kind of derivative of the Buddy Ryan defense, and that's Williams' D of choice too. I can't agree that he likes to let his coordinators have free rein. Doesn't sound like it meshes with his desire to *be* a certain kind of team. But I agree it'll be exciting, and I hope the new coordinator does markedly better for everyone here.

 

[dieterbrock]

Anything's possible, I suppose. But suppositions aren't going to get us any closer to the truth. I'm sure as time wears on, players will begin to speak about how he was as a coach and teacher. All we have now is the testimony of Fisher and Bradford who say he was Organized and his system was fairly easy to learn. One's the head coach, and the other is pretty smart in general. It could be possible that other players (namely receivers) who never studied a playbook before had some difficulty with it, but that would follow the normal course of reason.

And for what its worth, Bradford had career highs in yards, td's, ypa and had 3 of his 5 career game winning drive in his first year with Shotty.
So for all the talk of 3 OC in 3 years, Sam adjusted pretty well.

 

[drasconis]

And for what its worth, Bradford had career highs in yards, td's, ypa and had 3 of his 5 career game winning drive in his first year with Shotty.
So for all the talk of 3 OC in 3 years, Sam adjusted pretty well.

Note that was only 1 of 2 years he played a full year, the other was his rookie year so not sure those stats can be used to say anything about Shotty....

Wil also say reports out of NY were his system was overly complicated - though I take that with a grain considering thte source(s)......

 

[dieterbrock]

Note that was only 1 of 2 years he played a full year, the other was his rookie year so not sure those stats can be used to say anything about Shotty....

Wil also say reports out of NY were his system was overly complicated - though I take that with a grain considering thte source(s)......

Hence the non-sequitor "for what its worth", and also why I thought YPA was a good stat to include
In any event, his numbers improved year 1 which does support the idea that its not overly complicated to learn. And considering a rookie QB got to the AFC championship in NY, it "worked" there too.
I think he did all he could do in St Louis and it was time for both parties to go seperate ways, and I think both will benefit.

 

[BigRamFan]

Well, Kyle Shannahan is now available and we know Fish has a good relationship with this Dad...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...inator-kyle-shanahan-leaving-cleveland-browns

 

[-X-]

Well, Kyle Shannahan is now available and we know Fish has a good relationship with this Dad...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...inator-kyle-shanahan-leaving-cleveland-browns

Meh. I think we're all kinda tired of the nepotism by now.

 

[Zaphod]

Absolutely personnel matters. But so does coaching.

Look what Martz did with Green, Warner, Bulger and Kitna. None of these guys were established, accomplished, or expected to do much.

I've asked you this before, where are Schotty's success stories? Sure we can find Martz failures or Cam Cameron failures or Norv Turner failures or Rob Chudzinski failures, but where are BS's successes? He has nothing comparable to any of these guys.

You can't put it all on the players. He's been at it for 9 years now. He's culpable in his own failure...

Same thing can be said for the number of coordinators this team has gone through recently. It can't be all on the coordinators.

 

[MrMotes]

Same thing can be said for the number of coordinators this team has gone through recently. It can't be all on the coordinators.

I would definitely put it somewhere between all and none...

 

[BigRamFan]

Meh. I think we're all kinda tired of the nepotism by now.

But the real question here is has Fisher's position on it changed?