GAME DAY Rams vs Chargers Aug. 17

[dieterbrock]

Agreed. Tutu is the sole speed element on this roster but it doesn't translate consistently enough. Whittington will almost surely add more to this offense.

And his speed means little when he can’t get get past press coverage
He might be on the final 53 but I think there will be some hard decisions to be made. No chance Whittington gets to PS so he’ll be on the final roster

 

[PARAM]

Well ideally, the deep threat comes from either your WR1 or WR2 but most teams don’t have that luxury. Elite WR’s with size, speed and skills are hard to find.

The Rams were hoping that guys like Van and Tutu would be good enough all-around receivers that they’d be running mates with Kupp or at least viable #3’s. They’re not.

So yeah, Tutu’s deep speed serves a purpose but ideally one of your top two (or three) guys needs to have that speed, not your 4th or 5th or 6th best receiver.

Well actually, you deep threat doesn't have to be the #2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 receiver. He's just got to be a deep threat. But, okay, Tutu had the 3rd most receptions and yards among WRs last year. DRob came on at the end (21 for 329, 4 TDs the last 6 games) but I don't think the Rams have any order after the first two. It's Kupp, Puka and a versatile group after than.....DRob, Tutu, Whittington, etc.

 

[PARAM]

His production in the regular season last two years... though I could see him and Whittington both doing well if they played together in PS right now.

He's got his limitations but he can do and offer more than every other backup WR on the roster not named Whittington and Whittington is such a different WR you'd be better off looking at them as two different positions.

Tutu's splits last year might suggest he is more rounded than given credit.

On 3rd down, he had 11 receptions for 145 yards, 9 first downs and 2 TDs
On 3rd and 7 to 9, he had 3 receptions for 106 yards, 3 first downs.
On 3rd and 4 to 6, he had 3 receptions for 10 yards, 3 first downs
On 3rd and 1 to 3, he had 5 receptions for 17 yards, 5 first downs (2 TDs)

Clearly, he was successful catching long passes or short passes (versatile?).

 

[Merlin]

It's Kupp, Puka and a versatile group after than.....DRob, Tutu, Whittington, etc.

Last season debunked that take, which is how many of us felt going into the 2023 season. Robinson emerged and won the third role as the season unfolded. Zero doubt about that. He was our clear #3 in the playoffs with our team playing their best ball of the season.

So right now Tutu is behind Robinson, i.e. he is 4th on that depth chart. And looking at preseason so far I would guess that Whittington is gunning for his ass this year. It would not surprise me if he's 5th by the time this season is over.

Once you get to 5th on a WR depth chart you need to start asking what a guy's value is on teams. And that is where I am not sure, admittedly. Has he been working hard on returns? Is he about to light this league up with this new return format? I doubt it. I would need to see that to believe it. But that is his only real hope of earning a key role on this team for 2024.

 

[Ram65]

Wouldn't the Rams play Tutu more in the preseason if they weren't going to keep him???? Showcasing him.

The Rams aren't going to cut him without getting something in return. Les would at least get a late-round pick maybe his favorite a 6th-rounder. That is cheap for any team that needs a WR due to lack of speed, injury, etc with a low cap hit.

There is also this.

Tutu's splits last year might suggest he is more rounded than given credit.

On 3rd down, he had 11 receptions for 145 yards, 9 first downs and 2 TDs
On 3rd and 7 to 9, he had 3 receptions for 106 yards, 3 first downs.
On 3rd and 4 to 6, he had 3 receptions for 10 yards, 3 first downs
On 3rd and 1 to 3, he had 5 receptions for 17 yards, 5 first downs (2 TDs)

Clearly, he was successful catching long passes or short passes (versatile?).

I like Tutu as a 4th WR and to give others a break as the 3rd WR. Also, Kupp and Puka will have a higher degree of getting injured with the number of targets they are expected to get.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I think this would be a much easier convo if we could actually break it down to receiver 1, 2. 3 etc... but there are receiver positions that require different talents and needs from each position that muddy that water. What we need and/or works at X is different than F which is different than Z.

What muddies the water even more is the McVay offense often uses close splits for receivers which obscures the roles of an X, F and Z and probably makes the traditional skillsets and talents there less of an issue... however, there are still those needs at each spot.

Tutu is the best guy we have to backup at X (though he's not even the greatest backup there due to his size, the speed helps), we could have other guys play X but they truly would just be a sacrificial X at that point - almost every route would just be a love of the game route then.

Making this all the more complicated is the fact that Tutu's best spot is actually probably the F position manned by Kupp and that's a big reason we saw his production take a dive when Kupp returned.

Could the Rams trade him, sure, anything is possible. Just don't think likely. And his utility this year far outweighs what they would get from a team and I think people are undervaluing him compared to bottom of the roster guys like Johnson and Smith. Whittington seems to have shown a role and an arrow pointing up for when Kupp retires.

 

[Merlin]

I think this would be a much easier convo if we could actually break it down to receiver 1, 2. 3 etc... but there are receiver positions that require different talents and needs from each position that muddy that water. What we need and/or works at X is different than F which is different than Z.

What muddies the water even more is the McVay offense often uses close splits for receivers which obscures the roles of an X, F and Z and probably makes the traditional skillsets and talents there less of an issue... however, there are still those needs at each spot.

Tutu is the best guy we have to backup at X (though he's not even the greatest backup there due to his size, the speed helps), we could have other guys play X but they truly would just be a sacrificial X at that point - almost every route would just be a love of the game route then.

Making this all the more complicated is the fact that Tutu's best spot is actually probably the F position manned by Kupp and that's a big reason we saw his production take a dive when Kupp returned.

Could the Rams trade him, sure, anything is possible. Just don't think likely. And his utility this year far outweighs what they would get from a team and I think people are undervaluing him compared to bottom of the roster guys like Johnson and Smith. Whittington seems to have shown a role and an arrow pointing up for when Kupp retires.

If you look at it in terms of X alone then the question is how much dropoff is there subbing Smith in there instead of Tutu. I think Tutu is better than Smith. But in terms of how different it looks I doubt the dropoff is noteworthy.

If you look at it in terms of the slot I think Tutu is probably the 3rd best option. Whittington almost surely ends up as Kupp's depth option. So there is no slam dunk there in Tutu's favor either, in terms of cementing him on this roster.

Only real way for him to be instrumental to this team is to kick ass on returns. And there is a change in the league this year in how returns are done. It's not guys running full speed to hit flyweights like Tutu and send them flying while missing body parts. But Tutu has never really shown an ability to make good decisions on returns, which is key to the job. Is he smart enough for that? Can he be safe with the ball? Meh.

 

[dieterbrock]

Tutu has literally no trade value.
Last year of his rookie deal and likely a cut candidate at some point during the year.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Well actually, you deep threat doesn't have to be the #2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 receiver.

I think I said “ideally.”

What I mean is, In the Rams’ case we know it’s 11 personnel so yeah you DO want your deep threat WR among your top 3 guys, rather than bringing him off the bench(so to speak) and tipping your hand…or possibly taking a better receiver off the field if you want to remain in 11 personnel.

IMO right now Tutu is easily the 4th best WR on the team, probably 5th best once Whitty gets in there. I wouldn’t want to take better receivers off the field just to (hopefully) draw a Safety for Kupp underneath.

Ideally I want one of my top 3 to be that deep guy so I’m not fucking around and I can just run my offense.

 

[dieterbrock]

Why can’t Xavier Smith be the deep threat/ return guy?

 

[Mojo Ram]

So right now Tutu is behind Robinson, i.e. he is 4th on that depth chart. And looking at preseason so far I would guess that Whittington is gunning for his ass this year. It would not surprise me if he's 5th by the time this season is over.

Yep.
If I’m Whitty, I’m thinking that I’m one injury away from starting.

 

[PhillyRam]

Tutu has literally no trade value.
Last year of his rookie deal and likely a cut candidate at some point during the year.

I think a few WR starved teams would do the 7th/ 6th swap for him. Or maybe just a 6th or 7th for him. The Eagles are in dire need of a #3 right now. Not sure I would want to help them, but I am sure there are other teams like that who could use him. Maybe Buffalo?

Plus he saves you abt $600K on the cap. His $1.4M savings vs Xavier Smiths $800k salary, gives an extra 600K on the cap. Not huge, but it doesn't hurt having that extra room.

 

[WestCoastRam]

If you look at it in terms of X alone then the question is how much dropoff is there subbing Smith in there instead of Tutu. I think Tutu is better than Smith. But in terms of how different it looks I doubt the dropoff is noteworthy.

If you look at it in terms of the slot I think Tutu is probably the 3rd best option. Whittington almost surely ends up as Kupp's depth option. So there is no slam dunk there in Tutu's favor either, in terms of cementing him on this roster.

Only real way for him to be instrumental to this team is to kick ass on returns. And there is a change in the league this year in how returns are done. It's not guys running full speed to hit flyweights like Tutu and send them flying while missing body parts. But Tutu has never really shown an ability to make good decisions on returns, which is key to the job. Is he smart enough for that? Can he be safe with the ball? Meh.

I think there's a lot valid here. Def not saying Tutu would be a better option than Whittington at F right now but only that F seems to be his best position.

You may be right about Smith not being much drop off at X but we've never seen him play there, he doesn't seem to have the size, linear speed, nor superior body control and catch radius you'd want there and he hasn't done much with his limited snaps in regular season. I wonder if some of us are comparing his showings in the preseason and camp to what Tutu has accomplished not just in camp but in the regular season which I think is apples to oranges. Count me skeptical.

At the end of the day, I suspect we'll see Tutu, Smith and Johnson on the roster anyways.

And I'd love a more dynamic backup or even starter at X in general! (But curious to see what Robinson can do with a full year at starter, he sounds like form Jourdan one of those rare guys who's gotten better with age and certainly the best WR we have at working back to the QB on a broken play)

 

[Karate61]

IMO he's ILB #2 if not now he will be during the season. Hummell has been good too I just think Speights has more upside.

PFF agrees with you!


View: https://x.com/JKBOGEN/status/1825229382547341647?s=19

 

[OldSchool]

PFF agrees with you!


View: https://x.com/JKBOGEN/status/1825229382547341647?s=19

It's well known I am not a PFF fan but that's nice to see that they back up what we all saw so far in 2 games.

 

[Loyal]

Last year Kupp was out of commission. Tutu was in his third year in this offense and the Rams started him 14 games. There was all the opportunity in the world for him to win a role and contribute. What was his contribution? 39 receptions for 483 yards.

By comparison Robinson only started 4 games, yet managed 26 receptions for 371 yards. And down the stretch he was a crucial element in the offense in key moments of games.

This time last year Robinson had torched camp, yet his opportunity in this offense was largely put on hold due to the Rams trying to shoehorn Tutu into the attack. With marginal results at best. But eventually the change was made and Robinson was elevated in the pecking order and the offense showed instant benefit.

For this season Robinson is clearly ahead of him on the depth chart and rightly so. By midseason Whittington will be ahead of him on the depth chart as well. Also just my opinion here but if we're in the final minutes of a big game and I have to pick a depth chart option to throw a pass to, I would pick Johnson or Smith over him as well. And Smith brings special teams contributions.

I really expect the Rams to trade him. But if not, so be it. Keep prioritizing his draft order and speed and doubling down on another failed Rams round 2 offensive weapon draft selection. Keep him around next year too. I really don't care. But I think it sets a bad precedent to prioritize a guy who consistently fails to produce. And how in the fuck it makes sense to sit him in preseason is beyond me.

Humphreys lover!

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I didn't think so; and would have been surprised if he did but I'm still not sure if that's what @Elmgrovegnome was saying.

Someone here said he played in ST

 

[Allen2McVay]

Someone here said he played in ST

No. Finally, watched the game yesterday. Atwell was not in uniform.

 

[den-the-coach]

Someone here said he played in ST

No. Finally, watched the game yesterday. Atwell was not in uniform.

@Elmgrovegnome the information you received is false and you have to understand some people are clueless as they are the same people that claimed Ronnie Rivers played. However, Rivers dons #20 and Boston Scott #30 and they are similar in size and the announcer in the first game said Rivers carried the ball and it was Scott, this was in the first game.

People need to understand the play by play guys can error too.

 

[PARAM]

Last season debunked that take, which is how many of us felt going into the 2023 season. Robinson emerged and won the third role as the season unfolded. Zero doubt about that. He was our clear #3 in the playoffs with our team playing their best ball of the season.

So right now Tutu is behind Robinson, i.e. he is 4th on that depth chart. And looking at preseason so far I would guess that Whittington is gunning for his ass this year. It would not surprise me if he's 5th by the time this season is over.

Once you get to 5th on a WR depth chart you need to start asking what a guy's value is on teams. And that is where I am not sure, admittedly. Has he been working hard on returns? Is he about to light this league up with this new return format? I doubt it. I would need to see that to believe it. But that is his only real hope of earning a key role on this team for 2024.

Obviously DRob was the #3 going down the stretch.....the last 6 games and the Wild Card Game. He played 373 snaps to Tutu's 112. And he'll probably continue to outpace him as he is a better blocker in the run game. I wouldn't be surprised if Tutu were gone after this year.

Wouldn't the Rams play Tutu more in the preseason if they weren't going to keep him???? Showcasing him.

The Rams aren't going to cut him without getting something in return. Les would at least get a late-round pick maybe his favorite a 6th-rounder. That is cheap for any team that needs a WR due to lack of speed, injury, etc with a low cap hit.

There is also this.



I like Tutu as a 4th WR and to give others a break as the 3rd WR. Also, Kupp and Puka will have a higher degree of getting injured with the number of targets they are expected to get.

Somebody (Jourdan?) asked McVay about Tutu in his post game presser and he said one of the things that makes Tutu valuable (besides his speed) is he knows and can play all 3 WR positions. So perhaps, taking no account of snap counts, it's Kupp (#1), Puka (#2) or vice versa, DRob (#3) and Tutu (#3a). Whittington looks great but he's another Puka/Kupp type of WR.....bigger and good in the run game. I don't see the problem.....#3a, #4, #5.....isn't the more talent at the WR position along with the versatility better if it's 5 deep rather than 4?