Rams might have NFL's least-experienced O-line/PD

[Alan]

Akrasian hitting a bases loaded triple:
The Rams did take the potential star player with their #1 pick in Gurley. There weren't players clearly better than Havenstein by the time they next drafted.

Also, unlike fantasy baseball, the Rams were trying to put together an actual team. In the real world, getting a non-elite prospect where they already have a player about as good doesn't help the team near as much as getting a player about as good but at a position of strong need.

I'm a big advocate of BPA - which the Rams did in the first. But the draft is also about filling holes, or the Rams would always stay just shy of .500. This draft they got solid linemen in a draft where there weren't great prospects after the top half of the first. Just like any draft, we don't know if it will work out yet, but people are acting like Havenstein was a crappy prospect, when in fact he is a mauler whose question mark was pass blocking - but he actually had good success when given an opportunity in college and looked great at Senior Bowl week. Since every prospect available at that stage had significant question marks, I'm not sure why some feel that Havenstein was a reach.

I like what you said here although I'm going to nitpick that last paragraph.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap3...ft-war-room-adventures-different-yet-the-same
"EARTH CITY, Mo. -- The cluster of remaining draft cards magnetically affixed to the St. Louis Rams' draft board Friday night formed the shape of a partial football helmet, with so many offensive linemen sharing the same, second-round rating that some of their cards spilled over into other columns. And given that the Rams were closing in on their second-round selection and were, in fact, planning to pick an offensive lineman, coach Jeff Fisher and general manager Les Snead had a decision to make -- one which, in essence, had been resolved by the many months' worth of work that had preceded the 2015 NFL Draft.

As Fisher, Snead and COO Kevin Demoff huddled in the team's crowded war room to affirm their strategy, secondary coach Brandon Fisher gestured toward his father and explained, "He's thinking 'trade down,' because the board is talking to us. If you have a bunch of players who you basically rate the same, and you're happy to get any one of them, then moving down is the smart play."

As it turned out, the Rams would get linemen from the aforementioned cluster in the second and third rounds -- and would reinforce a lesson in effective war-room strategy."

"People fall in love in the second round," Snead told me a few minutes after the trade-down frenzy, as he and Fisher rebooted and waited to see which players would still be on the board when the 57th pick arrived. "If you're not in love, you're in the driver's seat. Last year, we fell in love with (defensive back Lamarcus) Joyner, and we gave up a '5' to move up to get him. This year, we were able to go the other way."

After reading this it was obvious to me that the Rams did a modified BPA/Need based draft in rounds 2-6. Yes the Gurley pick could be considered BPA but after that it was all best at the needed position/area until the seventh round. FA, the JB situation, the pick of Gurley in the 1st and the trade down in the 2nd all conspired to make Havenstein the best OT prospect (not the best prospect IMO) still left in the the draft at #57. They desperately needed O-linemen and they grouped all the ones they liked in rounds and apparently, made the rest of their picks solely from that group using a "BPA available at the O-line position" strategy. Apparently irregardless of who was left on the board at other positions. That's a plan, that's a strategy. I'm not sure it was the best plan/strategy but we were backed into a corner by the other factors I mentioned so maybe at that point it was the best plan/strategy.

I believe that purple sentence perfectly describes why they MIGHT have picked Havenstein earlier than his talent level deserved. But at that point did they have a choice?

As for the last nit I'm going to pick, while Havenstein may have performed well in some of the Senior Bowl practices/game, he was continually beaten like a drum in one-on-one pass blocking drills.

 

[Ram_Rally]

Well, having an experienced line didn't really help us at all sooooo

 

[FrantikRam]

I like what you said here although I'm going to nitpick that last paragraph.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap3...ft-war-room-adventures-different-yet-the-same
"EARTH CITY, Mo. -- The cluster of remaining draft cards magnetically affixed to the St. Louis Rams' draft board Friday night formed the shape of a partial football helmet, with so many offensive linemen sharing the same, second-round rating that some of their cards spilled over into other columns. And given that the Rams were closing in on their second-round selection and were, in fact, planning to pick an offensive lineman, coach Jeff Fisher and general manager Les Snead had a decision to make -- one which, in essence, had been resolved by the many months' worth of work that had preceded the 2015 NFL Draft.

As Fisher, Snead and COO Kevin Demoff huddled in the team's crowded war room to affirm their strategy, secondary coach Brandon Fisher gestured toward his father and explained, "He's thinking 'trade down,' because the board is talking to us. If you have a bunch of players who you basically rate the same, and you're happy to get any one of them, then moving down is the smart play."

As it turned out, the Rams would get linemen from the aforementioned cluster in the second and third rounds -- and would reinforce a lesson in effective war-room strategy."

"People fall in love in the second round," Snead told me a few minutes after the trade-down frenzy, as he and Fisher rebooted and waited to see which players would still be on the board when the 57th pick arrived. "If you're not in love, you're in the driver's seat. Last year, we fell in love with (defensive back Lamarcus) Joyner, and we gave up a '5' to move up to get him. This year, we were able to go the other way."

After reading this it was obvious to me that the Rams did a modified BPA/Need based draft in rounds 2-6. Yes the Gurley pick could be considered BPA but after that it was all best at the needed position/area until the seventh round. FA, the JB situation, the pick of Gurley in the 1st and the trade down in the 2nd all conspired to make Havenstein the best OT prospect (not the best prospect IMO) still left in the the draft at #57. They desperately needed O-linemen and they grouped all the ones they liked in rounds and apparently, made the rest of their picks solely from that group using a "BPA available at the O-line position" strategy. Apparently irregardless of who was left on the board at other positions. That's a plan, that's a strategy. I'm not sure it was the best plan/strategy but we were backed into a corner by the other factors I mentioned so maybe at that point it was the best plan/strategy.

I believe that purple sentence perfectly describes why they MIGHT have picked Havenstein earlier than his talent level deserved. But at that point did they have a choice?

As for the last nit I'm going to pick, while Havenstein may have performed well in some of the Senior Bowl practices/game, he was continually beaten like a drum in one-on-one pass blocking drills.

My take is different. I believe they looked at who they thought would be there in the 2nd round, and decided the best players were offensive linemen. So they grouped them together with all the players that had 2nd round grades, then got rid of everyone except the offensive linemen.

I think an important aspect to this is, if Leonard Williams fell to our pick in the 2nd round, we WOULD have drafted him. That's obviously an extreme example, but to me what we did in the 2nd round is no different than what they did last year in the first round - they had an idea of who would be there and assessed who the best fit would be for the team, and then it got blown up by the fact that Aaron Donald was still on the board. So they took him.

It's all just conjecture to say that they wouldn't have drafted someone else. This regime has proven that they identify guys they want and they go get them. They might end up falling on their own sword so to speak, but they have manipulated every draft to get exactly what they want out of it. Now we just have to see if it all works out.

 

[DR RAM]

And the crazy part junkman is that some will go right along with him as if all these guys fit all of the schemes being run. Over the weekend, I watched guys upset because the team passed on guys that were clearly better fits in a zone blocking scheme vs. a power run scheme. Or when they didn't get guys who were better served playing LT when the Rams already have one. All because of those arbitrary media draftnik ratings.

Brown may not be viewed to be as good of a prospect as Laken Tomlinson as a OG prospect because he was deemed good enough to play OT by his college team. Of course, IMO, a kid capable of playing both is the better prospect, but that's just me.

BTW, while perhaps very minor, Tomlinson desire to be a doctor concerned me a little bit. Sure, I know that these guys only play this game for a short period of time, but I sure would have liked to hear him express a more immediate football goal in his interviews.

And if the Rams questioned Peat's toughness, like I've read that some have questioned, there's no way he fits a Jeff Fisher coached team.

Oh well. Time will tell.

Agree with this, and will add, Peat is an OLT, so I'm glad we got one of the best prospects in the last few years in Tod Gurley. That is where you make the comparison, they were both 1st rounders. As far as Jamon Brown vs. Laken Tomlinson, Tomlinson couldn't have done what Jamon did. He's not athletic enough, and doesn't play hard all the time, or have Jamon's length. He doesn't have as much explosion as Jamon, and Jamon hasn't come near his ceiling yet.

I'm not sure Tomlinson can play at a higher level than he plays now, he can definitely get better at his stance though. Jamon has a lot more versatility too boot, and could probably spot start at OT, if needed.

I don't know if the Rams would have traded down in the 2nd if Donovan Smith was available, but he wasn't. We didn't just draft for scheme, we drafted for our offensive identity.

 

[Alan]

FrantikRam with his take:
I believe they looked at who they thought would be there in the 2nd round, and decided the best players were offensive linemen. So they grouped them together with all the players that had 2nd round grades, then got rid of everyone except the offensive linemen.

but to me what we did in the 2nd round is no different than what they did last year in the first round - they had an idea of who would be there and assessed who the best fit would be for the team, and then it got blown up by the fact that Aaron Donald was still on the board. So they took him.

It's all just conjecture to say that they wouldn't have drafted someone else. This regime has proven that they identify guys they want and they go get them. They might end up falling on their own sword so to speak, but they have manipulated every draft to get exactly what they want out of it. Now we just have to see if it all works out.

While everything I've quoted is certainly a possibility I have a few thoughts about all three of those paragraphs:

I'll address the bolded part of the first paragraph later but I would put the first part of it as having a very low probability. It seems like your saying that they would have drafted those "best players" even if we had no need of O-line players. I find it kind of hard to believe that all those O-linemen were BPA regardless of position. Possible of course.

You prefaced that second paragraph by saying it was about the 2nd round but your example of someone falling to them they didn't expect (Donald) didn't happen in the 2nd round. It didn't even happen in the first round as apparently they were targeting/hoping Gurley would be there for them in the first and when he was they pounced. Possibly I'm misreading you here.

I'm not a mind reader but from what Silver said it isn't conjecture on my part and is exemplified by this statement "As it turned out, the Rams would get linemen from the aforementioned cluster in the second and third rounds"

Now, back to the bolded part in the first paragraph. When you say they "got rid of everyone except the offensive linemen", isn't that saying exactly what I said here "made the rest of their picks solely from that group?"

So while you started off saying you had a different take on what they did, I'm having trouble finding where your take differs from mine other than your thoughts that all those O-linemen were BPA. Ergo, I must not be reading you correctly. What exactly did you disagree with or have a different take on?