Pay Him (Goff) Now or Pay Him Later?

[FrantikRam]

Tom Brady seems to keep doing it. It's tough enough to get to and win a Super Bowl, but without a top QB guiding your team, it's even more difficult. I'm not saying that Goff is Tom Brady, but I believe he is still far from his peak years at only 24 years of age. I tried to point out how an expensive QB contract isn't the end all for team success, especially as overall NFL CAP's rise significantly every year. Pair an excellent coach with a quality QB and surround him with a few pieces, he can take you pretty far. The Rams have all 3 right now and I have no reason to believe paying Goff is going to change that, or that it will come at the expense of the team having future success. Goff's CAP went up only $1.1mil from last year, yet we still lost Saffold, Suh, Joyner, Barron, Sullivan & CJ Anderson, ... it's just the nature of the game, and like all the other 31 teams, we must work the draft and free agency properly to get to the top, but without a 1'st rate QB captaining the ship, it's pretty much for naught. I happen to believe that Goff is first rate, and we still haven't seen the best of him, not even close. I mean c'mon, the kid is only 24, he's got a great future in front of him. jmo.

I've said multiple times Brady is the exception, although it's worth pointing out that he has rarely been paid his fair market value.

Aside from Brady and an ironically, laughably bad Peyton Manning, Super Bowls have been won by teams with reasonably or cheaply paid QBs.

It depends on how you define success - once you pay a QB that crazy contract, you might make the playoffs - but that's usually the ceiling. An owner is okay with this - it's a good business move. But for the fans? Over the past two years, would you rather be a Packers fan or Rams fan? I guarantee that the Packers got more attendance and media attention because of Rodgers. Fans would rather have been supporting the Rams, but an owner? Packers all day, every day.

As far as what we lost - seriously? Suh, Joyner, Barron, Sullivan and CJ were all expendable if not outright bad last year. Saffold's loss hurt, but that's it.

I want to make myself clear here: I like Goff - this isn't a knock on him. With the surrounding cast the Rams have, I wouldn't pay any QB. Once we pay Goff, we'll be cycling through RB, WR and OL. If Kupp does this year what I expect him to, he'll cost $14 million to re-sign - which will effectively end either Woods or Cooks' tenure with the Rams. As much as McVay praises Josh Reynolds, he's not close to their level, and we saw our offense crater last year without Kupp - very possible something similar happens if Woods is gone. To offset that loss while justifying his salary, the QB would have to get better and produce more while having a worse supporting cast, which is a nearly impossible ask - not that the team cares about fans arguing, but that's about the time the fanbase will split and half will say Goff needs to get better while the other half will bemoan the lack of supporting cast - I'll remember this thread because the supporting cast WILL get worse.

Having said all that, if we win a Super Bowl next year I'm fine with giving up whatever he wants, and if we win one after re-signing him I will gladly eat my words.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I've said multiple times Brady is the exception, although it's worth pointing out that he has rarely been paid his fair market value.

Aside from Brady and an ironically, laughably bad Peyton Manning, Super Bowls have been won by teams with reasonably or cheaply paid QBs.

It depends on how you define success - once you pay a QB that crazy contract, you might make the playoffs - but that's usually the ceiling. An owner is okay with this - it's a good business move. But for the fans? Over the past two years, would you rather be a Packers fan or Rams fan? I guarantee that the Packers got more attendance and media attention because of Rodgers. Fans would rather have been supporting the Rams, but an owner? Packers all day, every day.

As far as what we lost - seriously? Suh, Joyner, Barron, Sullivan and CJ were all expendable if not outright bad last year. Saffold's loss hurt, but that's it.

I want to make myself clear here: I like Goff - this isn't a knock on him. With the surrounding cast the Rams have, I wouldn't pay any QB. Once we pay Goff, we'll be cycling through RB, WR and OL. If Kupp does this year what I expect him to, he'll cost $14 million to re-sign - which will effectively end either Woods or Cooks' tenure with the Rams. As much as McVay praises Josh Reynolds, he's not close to their level, and we saw our offense crater last year without Kupp - very possible something similar happens if Woods is gone. To offset that loss while justifying his salary, the QB would have to get better and produce more while having a worse supporting cast, which is a nearly impossible ask - not that the team cares about fans arguing, but that's about the time the fanbase will split and half will say Goff needs to get better while the other half will bemoan the lack of supporting cast - I'll remember this thread because the supporting cast WILL get worse.

Having said all that, if we win a Super Bowl next year I'm fine with giving up whatever he wants, and if we win one after re-signing him I will gladly eat my words.

You are still missing the basics of my point, consider that the big annual boost to the overall NFL CAP is a relatively new thing. That $10mil+ per team per year raise can also be looked at as a partial offset for growing team CAP costs. Imagine had the NFL been granting this since the Super Bowl era began, todays CAP would be over $530mil per team instead of the current $188mil. Teams get a real bargain on their 1'st round players that make good, 5 years at a discounted rate, but if we then trade our #1 draft pick to save money, what will the cost be to move up in the draft to replace him ? Even if the trade cost is a push, then you have to pray that this years QB class equals what you already had, and that his training isn't bogged down by injury or worse, or like drafting another Manziel or Tim Couch. The Rams didn't get worse after drafting and then paying Aaron Donald, that's because with a quality front office and coaching staff the Rams have kept doing well with free agency and the draft. McVay has already taken us to the Super Bowl and he's done it without the benefit of a 1'st round draft pick, in 2020 he'll finally have one. The NFL is the not for long league, change comes every year, and like every other team, the cream rises to the top. The Rams will do their due diligence, and i'm fairly certain they will see the value in keeping Goff rather than try to start over at this most important position. jmo.

 

[Merlin]

One thing nobody in the media discusses is Goff's impact on McVay's offense. The fact that he allows stretching of the field not only in the horizontal that the WCO has done historically but also vertically. McVay's Skins offenses were good but not great. It's not like a top offense is something that happens when McVay waves his magic wand. It's something that has happened here in LA and it's not just the OL continuity and wideouts he added. Goff is a big part of that.

And then all the kid gets is doubting via groupthink. Even among the faithful, which for me, frankly, is insane. We finally have the type of QB the great old Rams teams of yesteryear did not have, a young gun who is going to allow for long years of high production and the type of balance you need to challenge for titles year in and out.

As to his contract I hope he is smart enough to allow for a little wiggle room for the team to add other pieces, because QBs are judged over time based on their team accomplishments vice their passer ratings and how much money they make. I want Jared to be the centerpiece of 5+ Championships and to retire in horns as our greatest signal caller.

 

[FrantikRam]

You are still missing the basics of my point, consider that the big annual boost to the overall NFL CAP is a relatively new thing. That $10mil+ per team per year raise can also be looked at as a partial offset for growing team CAP costs. Imagine had the NFL been granting this since the Super Bowl era began, todays CAP would be over $530mil per team instead of the current $188mil. Teams get a real bargain on their 1'st round players that make good, 5 years at a discounted rate, but if we then trade our #1 draft pick to save money, what will the cost be to move up in the draft to replace him ? Even if the trade cost is a push, then you have to pray that this years QB class equals what you already had, and that his training isn't bogged down by injury or worse, or like drafting another Manziel or Tim Couch. The Rams didn't get worse after drafting and then paying Aaron Donald, that's because with a quality front office and coaching staff the Rams have kept doing well with free agency and the draft. McVay has already taken us to the Super Bowl and he's done it without the benefit of a 1'st round draft pick, in 2020 he'll finally have one. The NFL is the not for long league, change comes every year, and like every other team, the cream rises to the top. The Rams will do their due diligence, and i'm fairly certain they will see the value in keeping Goff rather than try to start over at this most important position. jmo.

QBs have been getting these contracts for years, and the cap has been increasing - it hasn't helped Seattle or Green Bay stay contenders.

 

[FrantikRam]

One thing nobody in the media discusses is Goff's impact on McVay's offense. The fact that he allows stretching of the field not only in the horizontal that the WCO has done historically but also vertically. McVay's Skins offenses were good but not great. It's not like a top offense is something that happens when he waves his magic wand. It's something that has happened here in LA and it's not just the OL continuity and wideouts he added. Goff is a big part of that.

And then all the kid gets is doubting via groupthink. Even among the faithful, which for me, frankly, is insane. We finally have the type of QB the great old Rams teams of yesteryear did not have, a young gun who is going to allow for long years of high production and the type of balance you need to challenge for titles year in and out.

As to his contract I hope he is smart enough to allow for a little wiggle room for the team to add other pieces, because QBs are judged over time based on their team accomplishments vice their passer ratings and how much money they make. I want Jared to be the centerpiece of 5+ Championships and to retire in horns as our greatest signal caller.

Great post. The wiggle room that you talk about would alleviate all hesitation to signing him long term.

 

[Riverumbbq]

QBs have been getting these contracts for years, and the cap has been increasing - it hasn't helped Seattle or Green Bay stay contenders.

It takes more than money to build a quality organization. Of course it helps, but that's also why you build a top front office which includes a good CAP guy like Demoff.

 

[OldSchool]

So as to not start another thread on Jared's contract (maybe change the title or sticky or some such mods?) I'll add this from today here.


View: https://twitter.com/lindseythiry/status/1167957437044809728?s=21

 

[Steve808]

It appears to me that Goff will be signed. The rams look to be signing certain players to long term deals. These players will be the "pillars" to build the team around. After that, the Rams will need to draft well and develop players to keep the team in the running for a super bowl most years. I think McVay and Snead have done a pretty good job thus far.

If not for the phantom holding call on Gurley's big run in the Super Bowl, the Rams might have won SB 53.

 

[majrleaged]

Great post. The wiggle room that you talk about would alleviate all hesitation to signing him long term.

I do not believe there is any hesitation to signing Goff to a long term deal. He has proven himself to be a QB that anyone in this league would be ecstatic to have. Although you are correct. If Goff signs on the cheap he would be signed tomorrow.

 

[SuperMan28]

I am curious to see whether Goff or Prescott gets paid first. Both GM's may be waiting until after the season to see get deals done.

 

[oldnotdead]

Spotrac:

RAMS 2019 CAP TOTALS

• Maximum Salary Cap:$189,416,566
• Active Contracts:$179,858,617
• Injured Reserve:$2,285,027
• Dead Cap:$5,007,884
• Total Cap:$188,295,282
• Est. Cap Space:$1,121,284

Jared Goff:

2019		24	$4,259,683	$4,629,577	$8,889,260	$8,889,260	$4,259,683($27,937,673)
2020		25	$22,783,000	-	$22,783,000	-	$22,783,000($50,720,673)

Why would you prematurely increase Goff and in doing so hamstring yourself in continuing to build a team around him? Have you heard of the rookie QB contract window? It's very real and allows the Rams to build a Super Bowl team around their franchise QB. They won't have to extend him until 2021 and IMO they won't. There is simply no need as it makes no sense to do so. Teams take their QB's in the first round exactly for that 5th-year options. If they extend him now they will have to cut top players just to cover the cap increase.

People act like cap considerations aren't real but they are. Where is all this extra money going to come from? I keep raising the issue but no one has an answer that isn't simply about kicking the can down the road. There is a limit to how long you can kick the can.

My question is why would you want to have to do that if you don't have to? This is why I've been saying all along that next year they will have enough money to extend guys like Fowler, and Jared into his 5th year option year.

 

[OldSchool]

Why would you prematurely increase Goff and in doing so hamstring yourself in continuing to build a team around him? Have you heard of the rookie QB contract window? It's very real and allows the Rams to build a Super Bowl team around their franchise QB. They won't have to extend him until 2021 and IMO they won't. There is simply no need as it makes no sense to do so. Teams take their QB's in the first round exactly for that 5th-year options. If they extend him now they will have to cut top players just to cover the cap increase.

People act like cap considerations aren't real but they are. Where is all this extra money going to come from? I keep raising the issue but no one has an answer that isn't simply about kicking the can down the road. There is a limit to how long you can kick the can.

My question is why would you want to have to do that if you don't have to? This is why I've been saying all along that next year they will have enough money to extend guys like Fowler, and Jared into his 5th year option year.

Many very simple reasons but the easiest one is get it done before the going rate for QB goes up.

 

[Kevin]

Why would you prematurely increase Goff and in doing so hamstring yourself in continuing to build a team around him? Have you heard of the rookie QB contract window? It's very real and allows the Rams to build a Super Bowl team around their franchise QB. They won't have to extend him until 2021 and IMO they won't. There is simply no need as it makes no sense to do so. Teams take their QB's in the first round exactly for that 5th-year options. If they extend him now they will have to cut top players just to cover the cap increase.

People act like cap considerations aren't real but they are. Where is all this extra money going to come from? I keep raising the issue but no one has an answer that isn't simply about kicking the can down the road. There is a limit to how long you can kick the can.

My question is why would you want to have to do that if you don't have to? This is why I've been saying all along that next year they will have enough money to extend guys like Fowler, and Jared into his 5th year option year.

When we talk about resigned Goff, I think we are talking about a contract extension beginning after the fifth year of his rookie deal.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Why would you prematurely increase Goff and in doing so hamstring yourself in continuing to build a team around him? Have you heard of the rookie QB contract window? It's very real and allows the Rams to build a Super Bowl team around their franchise QB. They won't have to extend him until 2021 and IMO they won't. There is simply no need as it makes no sense to do so. Teams take their QB's in the first round exactly for that 5th-year options. If they extend him now they will have to cut top players just to cover the cap increase.

People act like cap considerations aren't real but they are. Where is all this extra money going to come from? I keep raising the issue but no one has an answer that isn't simply about kicking the can down the road. There is a limit to how long you can kick the can.

My question is why would you want to have to do that if you don't have to? This is why I've been saying all along that next year they will have enough money to extend guys like Fowler, and Jared into his 5th year option year.

Sheesh. You are just not listening to those who have explained it to you several times already.

You don't seem to be understanding the difference between an extension and a new contract. An extension can easily leave in place Goff's 5'th year option salary, the extension can simply add years of service along with new CAP numbers which coincide with his raise in salary & new veteran status beginning in 2021. If the Rams extend him 5 years, he will be a Ram thru the 2025 season, he won't be starting new from today. The advantage for the Rams is that both the team and Goff have the security of knowing his position is settled, and likely for less money than if we wait until late 2020 to begin negotiations. Goff will also have at his disposal a sizable signing bonus that he won't have to wait for, and it won't affect the Rams CAP until the extension actually goes into full effect in 2o21. There will be a hundred ways to write this onto his contract depending on years extended and his raise in salary & guaranteed money etc. Consider also that if his new CAP numbers don't begin until 2021, the Rams and every other team will likely be working with a CAP net which is $20mil higher than today based on the NFL's annual rise in revenue. jmo.

 

[Ram65]

Why would you prematurely increase Goff and in doing so hamstring yourself in continuing to build a team around him? Have you heard of the rookie QB contract window? It's very real and allows the Rams to build a Super Bowl team around their franchise QB. They won't have to extend him until 2021 and IMO they won't. There is simply no need as it makes no sense to do so. Teams take their QB's in the first round exactly for that 5th-year options. If they extend him now they will have to cut top players just to cover the cap increase.

People act like cap considerations aren't real but they are. Where is all this extra money going to come from? I keep raising the issue but no one has an answer that isn't simply about kicking the can down the road. There is a limit to how long you can kick the can.

My question is why would you want to have to do that if you don't have to? This is why I've been saying all along that next year they will have enough money to extend guys like Fowler, and Jared into his 5th year option year.

If I'm understanding the Wentz extension correctly. They didn't increase his cap hit this year or at most a little bit. Rams can do the same with Goff.

Carson Wentz

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

Jared Goff | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Jared Goff contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

If they can then they should do it this year. The sooner the cheap it will be.

 

[Florida_Ram]

Pay Him (Goff) Now or Pay Him Later?

 

[thirteen28]

Pay him now.

He's going to be a lot more expensive after he raises the Lombardi in one hand and the SB MVP trophy in the other.

No blue font needed.

 

[leoram]

I believe Goff would agree to around 38 if they do something now but it will be over 40 if they go deep into the playoffs and he gets another Pro Bowl. The logistics of how to do that would not mean he got 38 THIS YEAR. 2020 the Rams have enough room to frontload part of the overall contract with healthy guarantees and keep the rest of the contract at reasonable amounts with incentives that look better to the public than will actually be paid if he were to become chronically injured. In short, I believe they have a plan with decent contingencies that will be agreeable to both sides.

BTW, I LOVE how the Rams keep their negotiations private and without acrimony.

 

[SeminoleRam]

I guess it IS pay him now!!!

GREAT NEWS!!!