Once-in-a-lifetime prospect? Scouts break down Clowney

[jrry32]

Which is exactly my point. Why draft him when he completely disappears at all? I mean go watch the tapes, his comparison to DE's everybody says he's like (White or Peppers) is not even close. He's disappearing against double teams in college for Christ sake! What do you think is going to happen when he gets the NFL? If we draft Clowney we might as well trade for Suh if all we are is going to upgrade the D-Line which if it did need upgrading it's NOT the at the DE position.

Yea because I'm sure Robert Quinn, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, etc. never ever "disappeared" in college. Hell, Quinn had a habit of disappearing in 2012 in the NFL. Then came out in 2013 and dominated.

The standards people have are unrealistic. Completely unrealistic.

JJ Watt is arguably the most dominant defensive player in the NFL. The guy had 11.5 sacks OVER HIS CAREER in college. People mistake production for impact. Clowney has plenty of impact whenever he's on the field. Doesn't always translate into production but the guy is a monster. A stud.

And Julius Peppers? Puhlease. People claimed the guy took plays off EVEN AFTER he was in the NFL. In 2007, Peppers recorded 2.5 sacks the entire season. But he never disappears?

Frankly, I'm tired of fighting this battle. Not worth the time anymore. Clowney's play in the NFL will speak for itself.

 

[laramsoriginal]

Or clowney can be a bust.

The guy is a freak but he has shown that he lacks effort.

He is a gamble not worth taking for the rams looking to build a strong balanced team.

 

[jrry32]

Or clowney can be a bust.

The guy is a freak but he has shown that he lacks effort.

He is a gamble not worth taking for the rams looking to build a strong balanced team.

He won't be. And unlike the people that claim he lacks effort, I've seen every game he's played in college. I've met the guy. I've watched him play in person many many times.

Take it to the bank, Clowney won't bust.

 

[brokeu91]

I don't think anyone doubts that athletically he is one of the best DE to come out in a very long time. Because of his uber athletic ability he has the potential to become one of the best DE in the past 10 years, but that's based on potential. This past season he did not have stats that you'd expect from an all-world DE. Whether he was double or triple teamed or not does not matter. The fact is, Quinn was double and triple teamed and still performed, in the NFL no less. The difference in talent in the NFL and college is vast and if he isn't doing the work to take on double teams in college who's to say he will do that at the NFL level.

What does it say about his potential when your own coach calls you out in a press conference, and basically implies that he believes he's milking his injury not to hurt his draft status? If your own college coach implies things that make you look bad in his press conference, to me that's a bad sign.

If we are going to draft a position of virtual extreme strength at the second overall pick, then it better be someone who the Rams pretty much guarantee will reach his potential. I believe the Rams will do their due diligence. But like Haile noted earlier in this thread, to me, he seems like a guy who will play hard until he gets his first big paycheck then it's all over. I'm not going to go as far as say he is Albert Haynesworth, but he could have some of those tendencies.

If the Rams take him I believe they will have unearthed all that they could possibly unearth and believe he is worth taking. I believe with leaders like Chris Long and Robert Quinn along with the D-line coach, Mike Wauffle that the Rams have as good of a shot at helping him reach his potential as anyone else in the NFL, but to me that's still a big if. And, personally, I'd rather not take a big "IF" with the second overall pick

 

[jjab360]

One thing is for sure, if we drafted Clowney at #2 we'd have one of the best D lines in the league (as we already do and Clowney would at least be an upgrade over Sims) and one of the worst O lines in the league. If that's the way that Snisher want to go awesome.

Ridiculous statement. Did you forget that we have all of FA and the rest of the draft, including another first round pick to work on the O-line?

 

[Ramifications]

I don't think anyone doubts that athletically he is one of the best DE to come out in a very long time. Because of his uber athletic ability he has the potential to become one of the best DE in the past 10 years, but that's based on potential. This past season he did not have stats that you'd expect from an all-world DE. Whether he was double or triple teamed or not does not matter. The fact is, Quinn was double and triple teamed and still performed, in the NFL no less. The difference in talent in the NFL and college is vast and if he isn't doing the work to take on double teams in college who's to say he will do that at the NFL level.

What does it say about his potential when your own coach calls you out in a press conference, and basically implies that he believes he's milking his injury not to hurt his draft status? If your own college coach implies things that make you look bad in his press conference, to me that's a bad sign.

If we are going to draft a position of virtual extreme strength at the second overall pick, then it better be someone who the Rams pretty much guarantee will reach his potential. I believe the Rams will do their due diligence. But like Haile noted earlier in this thread, to me, he seems like a guy who will play hard until he gets his first big paycheck then it's all over. I'm not going to go as far as say he is Albert Haynesworth, but he could have some of those tendencies.

If the Rams take him I believe they will have unearthed all that they could possibly unearth and believe he is worth taking. I believe with leaders like Chris Long and Robert Quinn along with the D-line coach, Mike Wauffle that the Rams have as good of a shot at helping him reach his potential as anyone else in the NFL, but to me that's still a big if. And, personally, I'd rather not take a big "IF" with the second overall pick

It was a sensationalized story, so people tend to remember it more than the apology/retraction by Spurrier that followed.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...deveon-clowney-injury-steve-spurrier/2945989/

We may be underestimating the possibility that he was just hurt part of the season. Also, Spurrier has a history of popping off (when he was the WAS HC, didn't he mock Haslett for working OT, why wouldn't he just mind his own business, it seemed like a rude and stupid thing to say, for among other things, almost like he was bragging about being lazy, and sure enough, he was fired not too long after).

Double or triple team him on a DL that has Quinn, Long and Brockers? This comes up a lot, but realistically is it a big concern... how would they triple team him?

The concern that he goes in the tank after his first big day may be fueled by the speculation that he was coasting in 2013. Obviously if this is misplaced, and he was injured, it may be a bogus concern.

Arguably the risk is counterbalanced by immense reward if he is as advertised at his best.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Ridiculous statement. Did you forget that we have all of FA and the rest of the draft, including another first round pick to work on the O-line?

If you take Clowney then you don't take an elite player at another position, you want to address the O line in the draft and FA then to some extent you have to neglect addressing one of the worst pass Ds ever. Or maybe it was just a Ridiculous statement and we should take a rotational DE at #2.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Clowney would do great for us on third downs against OG's. We would hardly have to blitz at all, in theory. I think he would be worth the pick barring teams don't wanna pony up the dough. He's a great consolation prize at a minimum. Seems like the closer we get to the draft the more you hear talk about him being "the prize" of the draft. He's the Suh of DE's I beleive.

 

[jjab360]

If you take Clowney then you don't take an elite player at another position, you want to address the O line in the draft and FA then to some extent you have to neglect addressing one of the worst pass Ds ever. Or maybe it was just a Ridiculous statement and we should take a rotational DE at #2.

You're talking in circles here. Bottom line, you get the best players possible that will have the most impact over the long term future. If Clowney happens to fit that bill, then so be it. There will be other offensive linemen in Free Agency and the rest of the draft, so if we don't take one with our first pick, it's not the end of the world.

I also fail to see how upgrading your pass rush isn't upgrading your pass D. I assume you were only referring to defensive backs, but a scheme change under Williams will have a huge impact on their effectiveness, and just like O-linemen we still have a ton of resources to use in that regard. And we definitely didn't have one of the worst pass Ds ever, considering we only gave up 21 TDs. No matter how bad our Comp% or YPA allowed was, it's impossible for a D that only gave up 21 TDs to be considered one of the worst pass Ds ever.

 

[ChrisW]

If we're stuck at #2, I'm taking Bridgewater or Clowney because imo, we better get a top 2 talent in this draft.

Exactly. The last two questions were rhetorical. Just didn't come out sounding that way (internet).

 

[Rams and Gators]

You're talking in circles here. Bottom line, you get the best players possible that will have the most impact over the long term future. If Clowney happens to fit that bill, then so be it. There will be other offensive linemen in Free Agency and the rest of the draft, so if we don't take one with our first pick, it's not the end of the world.

I also fail to see how upgrading your pass rush isn't upgrading your pass D. I assume you were only referring to defensive backs, but a scheme change under Williams will have a huge impact on their effectiveness, and just like O-linemen we still have a ton of resources to use in that regard. And we definitely didn't have one of the worst pass Ds ever, considering we only gave up 21 TDs. No matter how bad our Comp% or YPA allowed was, it's impossible for a D that only gave up 21 TDs to be considered one of the worst pass Ds ever.

I suppose my problem is I'm viewing Clowney as Clowney rather than some mythical being who is so much better than any OL or DB we can pick up and comes along once in a life time. If you view Clowney as that mythical creature then I could absolutely justify completely ignoring needs to take him.

Also the number of TDs we gave up is a testament to our front 7, providing an upgrade to the front 7 would only lead to a minor improvement in the overall D, compared to upgrading the DBs to the extent that we can occasionally cover someone.

 

[iBruce]

I'm very Pro-Clowney. Sorry I'm late to this thread, so most of my thoughts have been expressed already.

 

[ChrisW]

I suppose my problem is I'm viewing Clowney as Clowney rather than some mythical being who is so much better than any OL or DB we can pick up and comes along once in a life time. If you view Clowney as that mythical creature then I could absolutely justify completely ignoring needs to take him.

Also the number of TDs we gave up is a testament to our front 7, providing an upgrade to the front 7 would only lead to a minor improvement in the overall D, compared to upgrading the DBs to the extent that we can occasionally cover someone.

I see it as more than a minor improvement now that we have Greg Williams. This guy loves to blitz. When you have Quinn, Clowney, and Brockers on the line. All three who command double-teams, who do you block? Now throw a blitzer or 2 in there. Now who do you block?

 

[tonyl711]

Yea because I'm sure Robert Quinn, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, etc. never ever "disappeared" in college. Hell, Quinn had a habit of disappearing in 2012 in the NFL. Then came out in 2013 and dominated.

The standards people have are unrealistic. Completely unrealistic.

JJ Watt is arguably the most dominant defensive player in the NFL. The guy had 11.5 sacks OVER HIS CAREER in college. People mistake production for impact. Clowney has plenty of impact whenever he's on the field. Doesn't always translate into production but the guy is a monster. A stud.

And Julius Peppers? Puhlease. People claimed the guy took plays off EVEN AFTER he was in the NFL. In 2007, Peppers recorded 2.5 sacks the entire season. But he never disappears?

Frankly, I'm tired of fighting this battle. Not worth the time anymore. Clowney's play in the NFL will speak for itself.

whats unrealistic IMO is calling a player who has never stepped foot on an NFL field a once in a lifetime or once in a decade player, especially one whose last year in college was nothing to write home about, one whose HC felt the need to call out in the media, red flags to think about and the fact that Dline is already one of the top 3 in the NFL, and major needs elsewhere, makes no sense to me.

 

[MerlinJones]

So we want a defensive line like a vault door and an offensive line like a turnstile?

Ok.

 

[jjab360]

whats unrealistic IMO is calling a player who has never stepped foot on an NFL field a once in a lifetime or once in a decade player, especially one whose last year in college was nothing to write home about, one whose HC felt the need to call out in the media, red flags to think about and the fact that Dline is already one of the top 3 in the NFL, and major needs elsewhere, makes no sense to me.

There's a huge difference between calling someone a once in a decade prospect and a once in a decade player.

 

[jjab360]

So we want a defensive line like a vault door and an offensive line like a turnstile?

Ok.

Ridiculous statement. Did you forget that we have all of FA and the rest of the draft, including another first round pick to work on the O-line?

 

[tonyl711]

There's a huge difference between calling someone a once in a decade prospect and a once in a decade player.

no there isn't, IMO it means he is a once in a decade player, you draft him with that in mind don't you? you draft him because you think he is a once in a decade player.

 

[tonyl711]

how is that ridiculous? to think that fixing the Oline which is an area of need over fixing the Dline which is already one of the leagues best?

 

[MerlinJones]

Couldn't you also use all of FA and the rest of the draft to acquire a rotational DE?