New QB Time!

[jrry32]

Guy. You've already proven that you can break out these kinds of still shots of plays for every QB in the league, because you once did it for Brady and you often did it for Bradford. I asked you how much energy you want to put into trying to convince everyone that Clemens is garbage, because you're already convinced and others aren't. You can't force people to change their opinion of Clemens this week because we're all cognizant of the idea that our options are limited, and most have decided to back the horse we've got.

Here are the facts.

1. Clemens is the backup QB who's been forced into a starting role.
2. Backup QBs are not nearly as good as the regular starters (99% of the time)
3. Nobody is suggesting Clemens is a great QB, and it's probably split on how *good* he even is.
4. Tebow isn't signing with the Rams.
5. Davis is well behind the curve and probably isn't much better. Maybe he'll get a shot, but you're not going to make it happen.
6. Brady Quinn can only be given about 8-10 plays at this point and has ZERO knowledge of our receivers.
7. We're all aware that the season is in dire jeopardy if not lost already. Why try to reinforce that with still shots?
8. There. Are. No. Other. Options. Outside. Of. Who. We. Already. Have.
9. This forum doesn't deride players who have demonstrated that they're 100% and wholly committed to winning.

10 messes up my bullet point layout, so I'm leaving it off. :wink:

1. Which was a mistake
2. Correct.
3. That doesn't change the fact that the Rams need more from him at QB if they want to win
4. That's mean. Don't remind me. :razz:
5. Davis was here the last couple years and then was gone for the first 7 weeks, I can't believe he's THAT far behind...regardless...hopefully he'll be caught up enough to start soon.
6. I don't want to see Quinn. I'm disgusted that he was signed.
7. Because I'm reinforcing the argument I have with evidence that I saw.
8. See point #4. :heh:
9. Where is the line between criticism and derision drawn? I'd give any QB the same treatment if they played like that and I've been trying not to use any "no-no" words while doing it.

 

[Selassie I]

1st down on the 6. This is the fake pitch play. Seattle's ENTIRE right side of the defense bites. Cory Harkey and Chris Givens are WIDE open in the middle of the field. Clemens never once looks their way. He locks onto Austin Pettis and throws the ball out of bounds due to pressure.

That's the game winning TD right there. That was on the final drive.

And here's another one. On 3rd down on the drive where Greg Zuerlein hit the 27 yard FG, Clemens throws to Cook who is stopped short of the marker. Here's the coach's film:

That's very possibly a TD. If not, that's an easy first down inside the 10. Clemens doesn't look his way and we have to kick a FG.

Chris Givens did drop what could have been the game winning TD. But KELLEN CLEMENS certainly didn't put us in position to win that game. The defense and running game did. Kellen Clemens is the by far the BIGGEST reason why we didn't win that game. I'll roll my eyes at people saying Clemens put us in position to win. No, he didn't. He put us in position to LOSE. And we did. If he had put us in position to WIN, we WOULD HAVE. Because the defense and running game were DOMINANT.

Please.

1st and 6... You ever try RUNNING to your right ,,, and then throwing across your body to your left across the field. There are 2 defenders there. Pick City jrry.

I'm not even going to get into the second set of stills.


You've already proven your thoughts on KC to me prior to the game Monday night. We get it bud,,, you ain't no Clemens fan. I remember you labeling him with some choice descriptions just last week.

You ever actually play a team sport jrry? How bout football?

These stills you are using are unable to show a multitude of things that are happening during the play.


Clemens gets some credit for the offense being at the 1 yard line after a 96 yard drive at the end of the game. He and the rest of the O are responsible for that.

 

[jrry32]

So now you think Clemens has the same skillset as Bradford. What happened to he has a weak arm. Clemens should not throw that ball, if he does it is picked off most of the time. It is a bad play no matter what evidence you think you have.

NEVER throw the ball late back across the middle of the field.

Clemens wasn't attempting a 20 yard throw. Harkey was five yards beyond the LOS and wide open. Your argument is not logically sound.

The play was designed to give you that back-side option. It was there. You throw it. There was no one that could have defended it unless Clemens threw a duck or an inaccurate pass.

I may not be a fan of Clemens but I think he's capable of setting his feet and making a 5 yard throw to a wide open TE over the middle.

It seems to me that you're just entrenching yourself in your opinion despite all the evidence because you don't want to admit that you're not correct here.

 

[Stranger]

Actually, X, Earl Thomas was only in position because Clemens took too long to spot the route. If he had thrown the ball as soon as Givens had cleared the LB, it was an easy first down. Earl Thomas was not in position. Earl eventually ran down on the play because Clemens didn't see Givens early enough on.

The pocket wasn't collapsing. Clemens had a clean pocket until he double clutched the ball and ran for it. If he had stood in, he had more than enough time to find Pettis.

These kind of "tactics"? It's not tactics. It's football analysis. Clemens was bad. Very bad. The coaches sitting on their hands only speaks to incompetence or apathy.

Right, this is where I am now as well.

 

[-X-]

1. Which was a mistake
2. Correct.
3. That doesn't change the fact that the Rams need more from him at QB if they want to win
4. That's mean. Don't remind me. :razz:
5. Davis was here the last couple years and then was gone for the first 7 weeks, I can't believe he's THAT far behind...regardless...hopefully he'll be caught up enough to start soon.
6. I don't want to see Quinn. I'm disgusted that he was signed.
7. Because I'm reinforcing the argument I have with evidence that I saw.
8. See point #4. :heh:
9. Where is the line between criticism and derision drawn? I'd give any QB the same treatment if they played like that and I've been trying not to use any "no-no" words while doing it.

1. According to you. You're aware that there's a Professional Coaching Staff with about 100 years combined experience who made this decision, yeah?
2. So we're on the same page there.
3. Well sure they do. Let's give him another game like you afforded Bradford this year.
4. Sorry. Just wanted to make sure you were aware. lol.
5. I wouldn't mind seeing what he has either, but we agree he has to get up to speed, and he has 1/8th the knowledge/experience of Clemens.
6. Agreed.
7. Nobody is disputing your argument that he's the lesser QB. Everyone saw the game (I think)
8. Again. Sorry.
9. I'm not questioning your motives. Just your end game.

 

[blackbart]

Clemens wasn't attempting a 20 yard throw. Harkey was five yards beyond the LOS and wide open. Your argument is not logically sound. You are welcome to your opinon and your logic I'm not buying it

The play was designed to give you that back-side option. It was there. You throw it. There was no one that could have defended it unless Clemens threw a duck or an inaccurate pass. You have been telling us how poor of a QB he is now suddenly you trust him to make that throw???? No thanks

I may not be a fan of Clemens but I think he's capable of setting his feet and making a 5 yard throw to a wide open TE over the middle. See above

It seems to me that you're just entrenching yourself in your opinion despite all the evidence because you don't want to admit that you're not correct here.

Ditto

 

[-X-]

Right, this is where I am now as well.

Really.

You think Fisher is incompetent and they're apathetic about the team/season.

Really. You're gonna go with that?

 

[Stranger]

Nah. I still disagree.

But let's say that is indeed the case.
So?

What are we supposed to do about it? Line up and take turns saying he sucks?
That's productive.

Try someone else, please. That's all I want right now. Give me something to get hopeful about. And if that doesn't work, try something else. But please stop giving us the same and and telling us it will get better. I find it insulting (from the coaching staff)

 

[mr.stlouis]

So Davis is expected to win game

1. Which was a mistake
2. Correct.
3. That doesn't change the fact that the Rams need more from him at QB if they want to win
4. That's mean. Don't remind me. :razz:
5. Davis was here the last couple years and then was gone for the first 7 weeks, I can't believe he's THAT far behind...regardless...hopefully he'll be caught up enough to start soon.
6. I don't want to see Quinn. I'm disgusted that he was signed.
7. Because I'm reinforcing the argument I have with evidence that I saw.
8. See point #4. :heh:
9. Where is the line between criticism and derision drawn? I'd give any QB the same treatment if they played like that and I've been trying not to use any "no-no" words while doing it.

So Davis would do better than Clemons? He'd win us games because

A. He has more experience...

B. He totally lit it up in limited action

C. He just got back from an extended vacation and primed to dominate.

D. You find him more attractive

E. All of the above

F. Double D

 

[jrry32]

Please.

1st and 6... You ever try RUNNING to your right ,,, and then throwing across your body to your left across the field. There are 2 defenders there. Pick City jrry.

I'm not even going to get into the second set of stills.

That's why you stop, set your feet and throw.

There are not 2 defenders there. There's nobody within 5 yards of him. Unless you're mistaking the referee for a defender.

I wouldn't get into the second set of stills. There's no way to excuse missing a wide open Pettis over the middle. But I'm sure someone will try.

You ever actually play a team sport jrry? How bout football?

Yes. Played and coached. And despite having a limp noodle for an arm, I could make that throw. Clemens sure as heck can.

 

[Stranger]

Really.

You think Fisher is incompetent and they're apathetic about the team/season.

Really. You're gonna go with that?

Honestly, I don't know what it is. I'm not in the meeting rooms. But something is terribly wrong. Yes.

 

[jrry32]

So Davis is expected to win game


So Davis would do better than Clemens? He'd win us games because

A. He has more experience...

B. He totally lit it up in limited action

C. He just got back from an extended vacation and primed to dominate.

D. You find him more attractive

E. All of the above

F. Double D

G. He's an unknown...and an unknown is better than a player that we know can't get the job done

Now I ask you...what's the down-side?

 

[Selassie I]

@jrry32

So you never played. I got it.

 

[blackbart]

Honestly, I don't know what it is. I'm not in the meeting rooms. But something is terribly wrong. Yes.

Bradford is out for the season, the team is youngest in the league maybe in NFL history, they are all doing OJT including the D coordinator, they inherited a train wreck.

Yes, I agree something is and has been terribly wrong here but is getting better.

 

[-X-]

Try someone else, please. That's all I want right now. Give me something to get hopeful about. And if that doesn't work, try something else. But please stop giving us the same and and telling us it will get better. I find it insulting (from the coaching staff)

Really?

So when the team (led by Bradford) absolutely TANKED for two games, and several members of this board had simultaneous aneurysms while jumping ship, and Fisher said "It'll get better", there was no merit to that statement? Because .... it did. Now Clemens has one game that was substandard while we were within 1 yard and 4 seconds of winning, and Fisher tells us "it'll get better", so we should be insulted by that?

Like I said in another post. Be careful what you wish for (Keith Null). If Clemens gets hurt and Davis comes in and does horribly, then we're onto Brady Quinn who has zero chance of being any better with his absence of knowledge and experience with this team/staff/scheme/receivers. Then what will be the reaction? Fire Fisher? Maybe we should just try to support the players we trot out there. Because they certainly haven't given up.

 

[jrry32]

1. According to you. You're aware that there's a Professional Coaching Staff with about 100 years combined experience who made this decision, yeah?
2. So we're on the same page there.
3. Well sure they do. Let's give him another game like you afforded Bradford this year.
4. Sorry. Just wanted to make sure you were aware. lol.
5. I wouldn't mind seeing what he has either, but we agree he has to get up to speed, and he has 1/8th the knowledge/experience of Clemens.
6. Agreed.
7. Nobody is disputing your argument that he's the lesser QB. Everyone saw the game (I think)
8. Again. Sorry.
9. I'm not questioning your motives. Just your end game.

1. In hindsight, it was a bad decision. Yea, it's hindsight but it was a huge mistake.
3. Bradford earned another game...Clemens hasn't. I hope he does because I want the Rams to win.
5. Sadly, that knowledge and experience just didn't translate. Clemens wasn't very decisive or good at making reads on the fly.
9. I don't know my end game. I don't think I have one. I'm just disappointed.

Ditto

I might not think Clemens is good but I think Clemens is capable of setting his feet and hitting a wide open TE in the middle of the defense 5 yards past the LOS.

It's not like once you start running, you have to continue. Clemens could have easily stopped and set himself up to make that throw. And there was nobody that could have done anything about it. It was a well designed play that fooled Seattle.

Really.

You think Fisher is incompetent and they're apathetic about the team/season.

Really. You're gonna go with that?

I would hope not but it's difficult to see a bright side of them thinking that Clemens was an acceptable back-up and continuing to throw him out there.

 

[-X-]

1. In hindsight, it was a bad decision. Yea, it's hindsight but it was a huge mistake.
3. Bradford earned another game...Clemens hasn't.

That wasn't your stance after the Dallas game. You were "done."
Now collect yourself and give Clemens another chance.
Because, honestly, you don't have a choice in the matter. He's starting this Sunday.

 

[jrry32]

Really?

So when the team (led by Bradford) absolutely TANKED for two games, and several members of this board had simultaneous aneurysms while jumping ship, and Fisher said "It'll get better", there was no merit to that statement? Because .... it did. Now Clemens has one game that was substandard while we were within 1 yard and 4 seconds of winning, and Fisher tells us "it'll get better", so we should be insulted by that?

Like I said in another post. Be careful what you wish for (Keith Null). If Clemens gets hurt and Davis comes in and does horribly, then we're onto Brady Quinn who has zero chance of being any better with his absence of knowledge and experience with this team/staff/scheme/receivers. Then what will be the reaction? Fire Fisher? Maybe we should just try to support the players we trot out there. Because they certainly haven't given up.

Nah, can't get behind fire Fisher. Not much he can do to fix this situation. Walton and Schotty? We'll see. And Fisher will be on somewhat thin ice with me next year.

My frustration with Schotty mainly comes from Tavon Austin usage...not that I think he's terrible at his job.

Walton? I don't know why he has been hiding the stuff we did against Seattle.

@jrry32

So you never played. I got it.

Uh, no. I did play. And I coached. How about you?

 

[jrry32]

That wasn't your stance after the Dallas game. You were "done."
Now collect yourself and give Clemens another chance.
Because, honestly, you don't have a choice in the matter. He's starting this Sunday.

There is a choice to make. Myself and 12 to 20 friends are some tackle football on Sunday afternoon for fun. First Rams game I will choose to miss in probably nearly a decade. But, I hope it goes well.

I don't believe I was done with Bradford. I think I said that in the GDT and took it back. 99% of things I say during the game should be ignored.

I believe I said that I had lost confidence that Bradford was the solution but I was willing to give him the year to prove it to me.

The thing is that Clemens doesn't have the sort of talent or track record that Bradford has. What has he done to earn it other than be on the team? Just saying.

 

[-X-]

I'm waiting to see if that same defensive game plan (if they use it) will be successful against a team that still has their two starting tackles. Walton's game plan hasn't changed much. There was more press (not a lot more), but that's what they've been trying to do this whole season as far as I can tell. If some of those slants that Russell threw didn't get dropped, who knows what that game turns out to be like. I mean, let's face it. Press has it's disadvantages as well, and we should be thankful the ways you can get burned by it didn't materialize. I don't know if we get that much pressure on them if their O-line is at full strength, so it was a smart plan.