New QB Time!

[den-the-coach]

Again Gentlemen we can debate until the cows come home, however, it's Kellen Clemens unless there is an injury and for the record I would much rather have Clemens than Brady Quinn and that would be my fear down the road that they would skip over Davis and go to Quinn.

The only reason Austin Davis was brought back was because he knew the offense and if there was an injury, he would know what to run. IMO the Ram Coaching Staff lost confidence in Davis underscored by the fact that they did not even bring him back to the practice squad.

It's Kellen Clemens for better or worse and in most cases, it will be worse.

 

[jrry32]

If the debate is Freeman vs. Clemens. I watched both games. Freeman was WAY worse. I'm not just talking timing routes, I'm talking scrambling and seeing open receivers running free with tons of separation, and then Freeman missing them by a large margin. I'd take Clemens over Freeman right now. Not even a debate for me. I am NOT saying that Clemens is a great QB, but he and the team had us in a position to win.

Freeman was bad. But Freeman was also making plays to escape the pass rush and throws down field that Clemens couldn't have made. And there's no question in my mind that I'd take Freeman any Sunday...even after that atrocious outing...over Clemens.

Clemens didn't have the team in a position to win. He's directly responsible for the team not winning.

And lets not act like Clemens is accurate either. He was extremely inaccurate.

How did he not execute well? Heck, there was more than one occasion that I felt Clemens scrambled and created time for WR's to come back better than Bradford could've.

That's because Clemens didn't pull the trigger. He doesn't see the field well. He had to scramble because his sense of timing on routes was non-existent.

How did he not execute well? Indecisive, poor timing, poor pocket presence, poor accuracy, poor arm strength...aside from his scrambling...what did he do well? Seriously. Being able to scramble on a few plays isn't executing well in my book. If Sam put up a stinker like Clemens just did, you better bet I'd be criticizing him after it.

He also scrambled for positive yards much better than Sam. Remember him rushing for a first down with a defender draped all over him? Yeah, that took guts. What QB is available that will do better? Austin Davis was out played by Clemens and didn't even show enough to register an PS spot. You kidding?

Austin Davis outplayed Clemens last year. He's young. He has a stronger arm. I'll take the risk on seeing what we have in him. Because worst case scenario...he stinks too. It's a lose-lose at worst.

I do remember that play. It took guts and was impressive. At the same time, it was only necessary because Clemens didn't pull the trigger on two different WRs.

If that's Sam, he pulls the trigger on Givens on the drag because Browner was picked by Pettis coming out of the bunch set.(and Clemens did have time, he was at the top of his drop and Earl Thomas was not yet in position to make that play...Clemens had to double clutch on the play because he saw Givens too late) Or, even if you want to say he didn't see him in time due to progressions, Pettis opened up down the middle. Clemens had time and the protection to find him but dropped his eyes and tried to run for it. Pettis at this point has thrown his hands up in the air partially to get attention and partially out of frustration as he had just waved his arm that he was open a few steps before this.

We are not going anywhere this year, Clemens showed enough poise and decision making to stick with him, and why does it really matter if Bradford is still the guy? Whatever QB we start now is going to, at best, be a second string next season. Clemens is the best option. I would actually find it easier to embrace if you said we need better WR's. You know... WR's that actually look for the ball on blitzes and come back to the QB when he buys time to throw? Then you got Cook dropping a big third down and half @ssing his routes. These guys are clueless after 8 weeks...

You mean WRs that get open but get frustrated because the QB is incapable of finding them?

Bradford is the guy. But I want this team to be competitive now. I don't want to wait another year to watch a quality team.

 

[max]

Bring back Dieter Brock.

 

[rickrawk]

All I can say is fucking wow!!!
Some folks need to find a dictionary and look up the meaning of fan--- "fanatic".
Debating is one thing, and I have no problem with that, but persistently ragging on players, coaches, F.O., etc.,
leaves a lot to be desired as far as being a fan. I mean
Come On Man!!
We all love the Rams and gotta back them no matter what.
Thanks. I feel better now.

GO RAMS!!!!
.

 

[Ramhusker]

I'm willing to give the guy another chance. Hell, he was on the field for the first start of the season on MNF against a top 3 D in the league. Damn, most QBs would not of fared much better. Let's see what he does against the Titans this week before we behead the guy. I'm sure Clemens would love to have those two throws that resulted in ugly INTs because I'm sure the Rams win the game without them. I'm still wanting to believe that if the Rams win Sunday, an upset of the Colts the following week is not out of the question. 5-5 with a bye week suddenly wouldn't look so bad. BELIEVE for a little while longer!!!!!

 

[-X-]

I do remember that play. It took guts and was impressive. At the same time, it was only necessary because Clemens didn't pull the trigger on two different WRs.

If that's Sam, he pulls the trigger on Givens on the drag because Browner was picked by Pettis coming out of the bunch set.(and Clemens did have time, he was at the top of his drop and Earl Thomas was not yet in position to make that play...Clemens had to double clutch on the play because he saw Givens too late) Or, even if you want to say he didn't see him in time due to progressions, Pettis opened up down the middle. Clemens had time and the protection to find him but dropped his eyes and tried to run for it. Pettis at this point has thrown his hands up in the air partially to get attention and partially out of frustration as he had just waved his arm that he was open a few steps before this.

Actually, he didn't' pull the trigger because the safety came down to cover the crossing route and could have made a play on the ball. So Clemens tucked it and ran for the first down. Freezing a frame to show a receiver "open" doesn't do it for me. He wasn't open as the pocket was collapsing, and it was a good play to extend the drive. You can campaign to bench Clemens with these kinds of tactics and call him "atrocious" all day long if you like, but it's going to fall on deaf ears because the coaches aren't going to do anything to alter the current plan unless he gets injured.

Now how much energy to you want to devote to trying to convince everyone he's as horrible as you say?
Because as it stands, there are different opinions about that. At some point it becomes counterproductive.

 

[Stranger]

Clemens didn't have the team in a position to win. He's directly responsible for the team not winning.

Right, it was the D, and ZS (along with the OL), that put this team in a position to win that game.

 

[Selassie I]

Clemens didn't have the team in a position to win. He's directly responsible for the team not winning.

This is a ridiculous statement. PERIOD.

 

[jrry32]

This is a ridiculous statement. PERIOD.

1st down on the 6. This is the fake pitch play. Seattle's ENTIRE right side of the defense bites. Cory Harkey and Chris Givens are WIDE open in the middle of the field. Clemens never once looks their way. He locks onto Austin Pettis and throws the ball out of bounds due to pressure.

That's the game winning TD right there. That was on the final drive.

And here's another one. On 3rd down on the drive where Greg Zuerlein hit the 27 yard FG, Clemens throws to Cook who is stopped short of the marker. Here's the coach's film:

That's very possibly a TD. If not, that's an easy first down inside the 10. Clemens doesn't look his way and we have to kick a FG.

Chris Givens did drop what could have been the game winning TD. But KELLEN CLEMENS certainly didn't put us in position to win that game. The defense and running game did. Kellen Clemens is the by far the BIGGEST reason why we didn't win that game. I'll roll my eyes at people saying Clemens put us in position to win. No, he didn't. He put us in position to LOSE. And we did. If he had put us in position to WIN, we WOULD HAVE. Because the defense and running game were DOMINANT.

 

[jrry32]

Actually, he didn't' pull the trigger because the safety came down to cover the crossing route and could have made a play on the ball. So Clemens tucked it and ran for the first down. Freezing a frame to show a receiver "open" doesn't do it for me. He wasn't open as the pocket was collapsing, and it was a good play to extend the drive. You can campaign to bench Clemens with these kinds of tactics and call him "atrocious" all day long if you like, but it's going to fall on deaf ears because the coaches aren't going to do anything to alter the current plan unless he gets injured.

Now how much energy to you want to devote to trying to convince everyone he's as horrible as you say?
Because as it stands, there are different opinions about that. At some point it becomes counterproductive.

Actually, X, Earl Thomas was only in position because Clemens took too long to spot the route. If he had thrown the ball as soon as Givens had cleared the LB, it was an easy first down. Earl Thomas was not in position. Earl eventually ran down on the play because Clemens didn't see Givens early enough on.

The pocket wasn't collapsing. Clemens had a clean pocket until he double clutched the ball and ran for it. If he had stood in, he had more than enough time to find Pettis.

These kind of "tactics"? It's not tactics. It's football analysis. Clemens was bad. Very bad. The coaches sitting on their hands only speaks to incompetence or apathy.

 

[blackbart]

1st down on the 6. This is the fake pitch play. Seattle's ENTIRE right side of the defense bites. Cory Harkey and Chris Givens are WIDE open in the middle of the field. Clemens never once looks their way. He locks onto Austin Pettis and throws the ball out of bounds due to pressure.

That's the game winning TD right there. That was on the final drive.

And here's another one. On 3rd down on the drive where Greg Zuerlein hit the 27 yard FG, Clemens throws to Cook who is stopped short of the marker. Here's the coach's film:

That's very possibly a TD. If not, that's an easy first down inside the 10. Clemens doesn't look his way and we have to kick a FG.

Chris Givens did drop what could have been the game winning TD. But KELLEN CLEMENS certainly didn't put us in position to win that game. The defense and running game did. Kellen Clemens is the by far the BIGGEST reason why we didn't win that game. I'll roll my eyes at people saying Clemens put us in position to win. No, he didn't. He put us in position to LOSE. And we did. If he had put us in position to WIN, we WOULD HAVE. Because the defense and running game were DOMINANT.

A 97 yard drive at the end of the game put this team in position to win Clemens had several completions on the drive to get them there. That is putting the team in position to win.

On the fake pitch play you do not throw the ball back across your body into the middle of the field.

 

[Lesson]

I'll take major cr@p here for this, but it's time for a change in coaching staffs. I've lost faith in them, and it extends beyond Shotty, cause it was someone else who picked, hired, directs, and retains Shotty and Walton.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Walton has shown improvement during the season and I think the Seattle game shows that. The D was incredibly dominant for most of the game.

Schotty is what he is. People are going to question some of his play call selections, sure, but the fact that the Rams went 96 yards with a backup to go all the way to the Seattle 1 has to mean something.

 

[Lesson]

Clemens didn't have the team in a position to win. He's directly responsible for the team not winning.

If he didn't put the team in a position to win, the Rams would not have been at the 1 yard line of Seattle on the last play of the game. And there are other plays that weren't executed well that could have changed the result(For exampleenalty on a Clemens run that would have put the Rams inside the Seattle 10, missed opportunity for a safety).

Austin Davis outplayed Clemens last year. He's young. He has a stronger arm. I'll take the risk on seeing what we have in him. Because worst case scenario...he stinks too. It's a lose-lose at worst.

And this preseason, in the staff's eyes, he didn't. I would like to see Davis at some point get some action with the 1s to get a better read on him, but there was a reason he released over Clemens.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Freeman was bad. But Freeman was also making plays to escape the pass rush and throws down field that Clemens couldn't have made. And there's no question in my mind that I'd take Freeman any Sunday...even after that atrocious outing...over Clemens.

Clemens didn't have the team in a position to win. He's directly responsible for the team not winning.

And lets not act like Clemens is accurate either. He was extremely inaccurate.



That's because Clemens didn't pull the trigger. He doesn't see the field well. He had to scramble because his sense of timing on routes was non-existent.

How did he not execute well? Indecisive, poor timing, poor pocket presence, poor accuracy, poor arm strength...aside from his scrambling...what did he do well? Seriously. Being able to scramble on a few plays isn't executing well in my book. If Sam put up a stinker like Clemens just did, you better bet I'd be criticizing him after it.



Austin Davis outplayed Clemens last year. He's young. He has a stronger arm. I'll take the risk on seeing what we have in him. Because worst case scenario...he stinks too. It's a lose-lose at worst.

I do remember that play. It took guts and was impressive. At the same time, it was only necessary because Clemens didn't pull the trigger on two different WRs.

If that's Sam, he pulls the trigger on Givens on the drag because Browner was picked by Pettis coming out of the bunch set.(and Clemens did have time, he was at the top of his drop and Earl Thomas was not yet in position to make that play...Clemens had to double clutch on the play because he saw Givens too late) Or, even if you want to say he didn't see him in time due to progressions, Pettis opened up down the middle. Clemens had time and the protection to find him but dropped his eyes and tried to run for it. Pettis at this point has thrown his hands up in the air partially to get attention and partially out of frustration as he had just waved his arm that he was open a few steps before this.



You mean WRs that get open but get frustrated because the QB is incapable of finding them?

Bradford is the guy. But I want this team to be competitive now. I don't want to wait another year to watch a quality team.

I like this post, man. I remember seeing these freeze frames when people were down on Bradford earlier this season, too. Fact is every QB misses reads and it's hard to say at times whose fault it was. You just proved Clemons wasn't perfect which I already knew. I agree Bradford is the guy next year. In also beleive you should blame Cook and the receiver as much as you blame Clemons. Cook gave up on his route and dropped a easy third down pass. Givens dropped one at the goal line and I belive Quick had another big drop. You should freeze frame those plays...

If you're point out what Clemons did wrong, you should also point out what he did right. It wasn't a bad game for him and I don't think anyone other second string QB woulda done better. How about taking us through that final 90+ yard drive at the end lead by Clemons. The guy made plays. But I know you and Kozar are roomies and all. Lol

 

[jrry32]

A 97 yard drive at the end of the game put this team in position to win Clemens had several completions on the drive to get them there. That is putting the team in position to win.

On the fake pitch play you do not throw the ball back across your body into the middle of the field.

You don't?

Better let Sam know.

You absolutely do. You set your feet. You pivot your body and you hit the open TE for a TD. It's how the play is designed. Harkey pretends to block and then sneaks out on the back-side of the play. It worked.

You throw that ball. That's what NFL QBs do.

 

[-X-]

Actually, X, Earl Thomas was only in position because Clemens took too long to spot the route. If he had thrown the ball as soon as Givens had cleared the LB, it was an easy first down. Earl Thomas was not in position. Earl eventually ran down on the play because Clemens didn't see Givens early enough on.

The pocket wasn't collapsing. Clemens had a clean pocket until he double clutched the ball and ran for it. If he had stood in, he had more than enough time to find Pettis.

These kind of "tactics"? It's not tactics. It's football analysis. Clemens was bad. Very bad. The coaches sitting on their hands only speaks to incompetence or apathy.

Guy. You've already proven that you can break out these kinds of still shots of plays for every QB in the league, because you once did it for Brady and you often did it for Bradford. I asked you how much energy you want to put into trying to convince everyone that Clemens is garbage, because you're already convinced and others aren't. You can't force people to change their opinion of Clemens this week because we're all cognizant of the idea that our options are limited, and most have decided to back the horse we've got.

Here are the facts.

1. Clemens is the backup QB who's been forced into a starting role.
2. Backup QBs are not nearly as good as the regular starters (99% of the time)
3. Nobody is suggesting Clemens is a great QB, and it's probably split on how *good* he even is.
4. Tebow isn't signing with the Rams.
5. Davis is well behind the curve and probably isn't much better. Maybe he'll get a shot, but you're not going to make it happen.
6. Brady Quinn can only be given about 8-10 plays at this point and has ZERO knowledge of our receivers.
7. We're all aware that the season is in dire jeopardy if not lost already. Why try to reinforce that with still shots?
8. There. Are. No. Other. Options. Outside. Of. Who. We. Already. Have.
9. This forum doesn't deride players who have demonstrated that they're 100% and wholly committed to winning.

10 messes up my bullet point layout, so I'm leaving it off. :wink:

 

[jrry32]

If he didn't put the team in a position to win, the Rams would not have been at the 1 yard line of Seattle on the last play of the game. And there are other plays that weren't executed well that could have changed the result(For exampleenalty on a Clemens run that would have put the Rams inside the Seattle 10, missed opportunity for a safety).




And this preseason, in the staff's eyes, he didn't. I would like to see Davis at some point get some action with the 1s to get a better read on him, but there was a reason he released over Clemens.

The Rams might have been in position to win but it wasn't because of Clemens. He put them in position to lose. And they did. With a decent QB, that game would not have gone down to the wire. Clemens put them in a position where they could lose the game with his bad play...and they did.

I don't call that putting the team in position to win. Zac Stacy put the team in position to win. Robert Quinn put the team in position to win. The defense as a whole put the team in a position to win. Kellen Clemens did not. He is the biggest reason why the Rams did not win. He played poorly and cost us.

 

[-X-]

He played poorly and cost us.

Nah. I still disagree.

But let's say that is indeed the case.
So?

What are we supposed to do about it? Line up and take turns saying he sucks?
That's productive.

 

[blackbart]

You don't?

Better let Sam know.

You absolutely do. You set your feet. You pivot your body and you hit the open TE for a TD. It's how the play is designed. Harkey pretends to block and then sneaks out on the back-side of the play. It worked.

You throw that ball. That's what NFL QBs do.

So now you think Clemens has the same skillset as Bradford. What happened to he has a weak arm. Clemens should not throw that ball, if he does it is picked off most of the time. It is a bad play no matter what evidence you think you have.

NEVER throw the ball late back across the middle of the field.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Guy. You've already proven that you can break out these kinds of still shots of plays for every QB in the league, because you once did it for Brady and you often did it for Bradford. I asked you how much energy you want to put into trying to convince everyone that Clemens is garbage, because you're already convinced and others aren't. You can't force people to change their opinion of Clemens this week because we're all cognizant of the idea that our options are limited, and most have decided to back the horse we've got.

Here are the facts.

1. Clemens is the backup QB who's been forced into a starting role.
2. Backup QBs are not nearly as good as the regular starters (99% of the time)
3. Nobody is suggesting Clemens is a great QB, and it's probably split on how *good* he even is.
4. Tebow isn't signing with the Rams.
5. Davis is well behind the curve and probably isn't much better. Maybe he'll get a shot, but you're not going to make it happen.
6. Brady Quinn can only be given about 8-10 plays at this point and has ZERO knowledge of our receivers.
7. We're all aware that the season is in dire jeopardy if not lost already. Why try to reinforce that with still shots?
8. There. Are. No. Other. Options. Outside. Of. Who. We. Already. Have.
9. This forum doesn't deride players who have demonstrated that they're 100% and wholly committed to winning.

10 messes up my bullet point layout, so I'm leaving it off. :wink:

"And X gets the square..."

Lol Agreed