Seems like it would almost be better for davis and Kroenke to trade franchises. Leave the raiders in LA and rams in stl.
New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL
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Who said that?
I applaud and appreciate the support St Louis gave the Rams under rough circumstances. Period.
The only one bringing up other cities, is you
Curious what Goldman will be taking as collateral from the Chargers...perhaps the team itself? Maybe that's why they're pushing so hard to get the Chargers in LA, knowing Spanos can't afford to pay back whatever debt he incurs due to the move and loses the team? That's some Game of Thrones stuff right there
I'm with you. I haven't read any comments after yours yet, but if Kroenke is granted something in LA it wouldn't surprise me if there is some franchise swapping.
I understand the Rams have significant history in LA, but the current situation has fans heavily invested in St. Louis. I think the NFL wants the Rams to stay put if St louis comes thru with a stadium.
PS: and for the record, I remain convinced Stan wants to be an owner in St Louis. His whole maneuvering is a bit difficult to understand, but I believe that's what he wants and we'll learn that in the end.
That sounds familiar, almost as if there was another barely relevant franchise being supported in STL.. It may take a year or two but I contend STL would step up.
except St.Louis is on the rise w/ a decent FO.
Raiders are still in shambles - a consistently losing Franchise with a terrible FO? now that sounds familiar
i agree wholeheartedly!! What do Kraft & the clowns think? We sit through 10 years of epic ineptitude, finally see improvement in our team, and smile as they leave to be replaced by, really, any team? You dont emotionally invest in a team, and then just flip a toggle switch and start rooting for another...especially one as polarizing as the Raiders.
You flip that switch if you're more invested emotionally in the town rather than the team. Kraft is actually trying to throw STL a bone, instead of just telling us that we're screwed. At least someone somewhat cares about the STL market enough to try to serve it. But if everyone would rather keep the blight and get nothing at all.....
except St.Louis is on the rise w/ a decent FO.
Raiders are still in shambles - a consistently losing Franchise with a terrible FO? now that sounds familiar
Again, it's not going to matter to me if the Rams are on the rise if they leave for LA, and I'm stuck here dropping money on cable packages and talking to myself in the break room on Monday morning.
NFL Network’s Albert Breer is in Arizona this week covering the annual NFL owners meetings. Breer made headlines on Sunday when tweeted out a flurry of updates on on where things stand in the race to Los Angeles, and how the Rams, Raiders and Chargers fit into the puzzle. He joined The Ryan Kelley Morning After on Tuesday to discuss the issue, Rams owner Stan Kroenke and the future of football in St. Louis.
Listen to Breer Interview
Listen to Breer Interview
I was saying if the raiders were hypothetically move here or somewhere not in CA - i can't imagine a new city wanting to support that team...especially with the davis family
St Louis is the 21st largest market. I think people forget it's a good market for the NFL.
That's what Kraft is saying, IMO.
$0.02.
I agree that's what he is saying. I'm glad another owner realizes that, and realizes that a market that has supported an underachieving team for 10 years deserves a team to root for. What I don't understand is why people seem to be upset about that statement. It's not lost on me that the owner of the hated patriots has, with one statement, shown more interest in STL being treated fairly then our own owner has.
I can. If a new city has a choice between no football and football, I've no doubt that they'd choose football. Also, an NFL team in STL means some significant upgrades to the riverfront and downtown, which is going to soften the blow of losing the Rams for the Raiders. It isn't just a matter of losing a football team anymore, it's losing a second football team and all the improvements as well. I think most reasonable people here will reach for the consolation prize when faced with a losing hand. JMO based on conversations I've had about town over this process.
Of course, I could just be surrounded by pragmatic people in my corner of the world.
theramsruleUK
Pro Bowler
Zig. + 1. This goes for LA too. I don't want the Raiders or Chargers and most LA football fans don't either. Pretty bold of the league to simply assign us with whom they choose so they can fix their problem of underfunded teams / cities needing to build palaces. We need a stadium reform act.
I agree it's not optimal. I agree that we need some sort of sanity on these stadiums. But a stadium reform act doesn't change the fact that to get what you want in LA I'd have to lose what I want in STL, being the Rams of course. LA is going to be privately funded. There is no stadium act you can make to stop that. So why would you cut off the 21st market when a solution, however second fiddle it seems, might be available? I've never been one to cry over losing plan A if a plan B starts to become available.
I don't know how many of you guys know JamesJM from the Herd.
A well respected and loved Rams fan. I've had the pleasure of meeting him and sitting with him in STL for a game. He's an amazing mofo, quite the scalawag and is an excellent writer. He weaves stories.
His son is getting into the stadium game and trying to get the Rams to move north to the town they live in so he sent this to the NFL.
It could happen.......
A well respected and loved Rams fan. I've had the pleasure of meeting him and sitting with him in STL for a game. He's an amazing mofo, quite the scalawag and is an excellent writer. He weaves stories.
His son is getting into the stadium game and trying to get the Rams to move north to the town they live in so he sent this to the NFL.
It could happen.......
bluecoconuts
Legend
I don't think they would want to, but the #2 market was out for so long and they let it happen. I think San Diego is around 10, and Oakland is lumped in with San Jose and San Francisco at 5... But they do already have a team. Leaving St Louis empty would be stupid.
The way that maximizes profits for the NFL is the Raiders moving to St Louis though. I think regardless of what happens, I'd be shocked if St Louis was without a team by 2020.
Something along the lines of another bylaw. Let's say, under the same circumstances, Stan can only build a stadium elsewhere that is no more expensive that what the current market can afford? Perhaps not as hard a deal for the league to pass up then.
The NFL exec's might not want to back it though.
The gut feelings of so many fans are being neglected / underestimated by the league. Think about it, these wealthy men are bettering themselves in the spirit of the free enterprise system in America. By doing so they have to take a risk. The risk in this case is the probable alienation of fans in multiple markets. The team owners are obviously taking that risk.
So lose fan trust coupled with the ridiculous prices, bad player pub, more rules pussification yada yada, who knows. The 40 million dollar man might get put on the hot seat... lol
Of course week 1 kickoff, all that is forgotten..
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Here we go again? NFL to assess St. Louis market
• By Jim Thomas
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_8d5a4f06-3749-5f69-8c80-27bceea30bb0.html
PHOENIX • It’s well established that assembling the land, getting that land shovel-ready, and putting together a financing plan are key elements in the north riverfront stadium plan that could keep the NFL in St. Louis.
But add another speed bump to the mix. In NFL parlance it’s something called market assessment.
“The market assessment puts a data-driven estimate on the PSL potential,” said Eric Grubman, the NFL executive in charge of Los Angeles, relocation, and stadium issues. “The number of tickets you can sell to season-ticket holders. The pricing of those tickets.
“The number of suites and club seats that are desired by the market. The likely pricing that will work.”
This should sound familiar to Rams season-ticket holders, past and present, who filled out NFL surveys via email a few weeks ago.
“And we’ll also get some sense of the depth of corporate support for things in addition to premium (seating) — sponsorship, naming (rights), and so forth and so on,” Grubman said.
The league plans market assessment visits next month to all three cities in danger of losing their team to Los Angeles: St. Louis, Oakland, and San Diego.
Grubman said he’s already booked a trip to San Diego in the middle of April. He has yet to schedule the St. Louis trip. But coming to St. Louis is nothing new for Grubman, because he has made trips there about once a month since last fall working with Gov. Jay Nixon’s task force of Dave Peacock and Bob Blitz.
“Each of the times we’ve gone to visit them we’ve made good progress,” Grubman told the Post-Dispatch at the NFL owners meetings.
According to Grubman, the league has retained the Legends firm to do the market research in St. Louis, Oakland, and San Diego — as well as Los Angeles.
“We’re well on the way,” Grubman said. “We’ve launched in Los Angeles months ago. It has different components along the way.”
The “launch” in St. Louis took place a few weeks ago with the email surveys to season-ticket holders. The market assessment programs are about to begin in San Diego and Oakland. The full assessment process will take about two to three months.
“We’re sharing that information with league clubs,” Grubman said. “So it’s to the benefit of anybody who has a need to see it.”
Once the email surveys come in, Grubman says additional steps include focus groups. There is also corporate surveying taking place, including calling the CEO’s of major companies and asking questions related to their interest in the NFL in St. Louis.
All of which is critically important to St. Louis, because it’s widely believed that one of the escape hatches Rams owner Stan Kroenke will try to employ to skirt league relocation guidelines is the lack of market — and particularly — corporate support in St. Louis.
Grubman said the market study of St. Louis will be “fully developed in probably three or four weeks.”
So in a city known as a baseball town, the assessment will gauge the level of football interest in St. Louis from a fan and corporate support point of view.
“You develop the architecture of the financial plan not just to finance (a stadium) but to support (a team) for years to come,” Grubman said.
In other words, you can have a fantastic stadium plan and great financing, but if the market support is tepid? Well, it’s as important as any other component in deciding if any of the cities in question will have the NFL in its future.
“You got it,” Grubman said. “It is a key part. And that’s why we chose to do them independently (with the Legends firm), so that owners weren’t presented with a plan that had a filter from someone that either wanted to be in that market, or didn’t want to be there.”
For beleaguered Rams fans who remember the unsuccessful effort to land an expansion team in the early 1990s, followed by the successful effort to lure the Rams from Los Angeles to the Midwest, you can almost hear the collective groan of Not Again.
For the second time in less than 25 years, the region must show the National Football League how much it likes the product.
Wait, there’s more. Grubman said the NFL has discussed the possibility of conducting some sort of PSL (personal seat license)/luxury seating campaign as was conducted during the expansion process.
“We’ve talked about it,” he said. “I don’t think that we would necessarily want to take that step without all the other pieces being in place.”
By that he meant the land assembly, financing, etc.
And then, almost thinking out loud, Grubman added, “If your question is would we launch that (premium seating campaign), and if it failed would we pull back (from a market)? I wouldn’t like to do that.
“I want to think about that some more.”
Grubman said the league discussed such a seating campaign for Los Angeles when having a team there was a league-driven plan as opposed to the present team owner-driven plan.
“Once teams are involved, I’m not sure that a team wants to do that because they are tainting their existing market if they’re out selling in a new market,” he said.
Rams fans and corporations in St. Louis might not be too fired up about committing to season tickets or luxury boxes if the Rams were undertaking a simultaneous campaign in Los Angeles.
• By Jim Thomas
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_8d5a4f06-3749-5f69-8c80-27bceea30bb0.html
PHOENIX • It’s well established that assembling the land, getting that land shovel-ready, and putting together a financing plan are key elements in the north riverfront stadium plan that could keep the NFL in St. Louis.
But add another speed bump to the mix. In NFL parlance it’s something called market assessment.
“The market assessment puts a data-driven estimate on the PSL potential,” said Eric Grubman, the NFL executive in charge of Los Angeles, relocation, and stadium issues. “The number of tickets you can sell to season-ticket holders. The pricing of those tickets.
“The number of suites and club seats that are desired by the market. The likely pricing that will work.”
This should sound familiar to Rams season-ticket holders, past and present, who filled out NFL surveys via email a few weeks ago.
“And we’ll also get some sense of the depth of corporate support for things in addition to premium (seating) — sponsorship, naming (rights), and so forth and so on,” Grubman said.
The league plans market assessment visits next month to all three cities in danger of losing their team to Los Angeles: St. Louis, Oakland, and San Diego.
Grubman said he’s already booked a trip to San Diego in the middle of April. He has yet to schedule the St. Louis trip. But coming to St. Louis is nothing new for Grubman, because he has made trips there about once a month since last fall working with Gov. Jay Nixon’s task force of Dave Peacock and Bob Blitz.
“Each of the times we’ve gone to visit them we’ve made good progress,” Grubman told the Post-Dispatch at the NFL owners meetings.
According to Grubman, the league has retained the Legends firm to do the market research in St. Louis, Oakland, and San Diego — as well as Los Angeles.
“We’re well on the way,” Grubman said. “We’ve launched in Los Angeles months ago. It has different components along the way.”
The “launch” in St. Louis took place a few weeks ago with the email surveys to season-ticket holders. The market assessment programs are about to begin in San Diego and Oakland. The full assessment process will take about two to three months.
“We’re sharing that information with league clubs,” Grubman said. “So it’s to the benefit of anybody who has a need to see it.”
Once the email surveys come in, Grubman says additional steps include focus groups. There is also corporate surveying taking place, including calling the CEO’s of major companies and asking questions related to their interest in the NFL in St. Louis.
All of which is critically important to St. Louis, because it’s widely believed that one of the escape hatches Rams owner Stan Kroenke will try to employ to skirt league relocation guidelines is the lack of market — and particularly — corporate support in St. Louis.
Grubman said the market study of St. Louis will be “fully developed in probably three or four weeks.”
So in a city known as a baseball town, the assessment will gauge the level of football interest in St. Louis from a fan and corporate support point of view.
“You develop the architecture of the financial plan not just to finance (a stadium) but to support (a team) for years to come,” Grubman said.
In other words, you can have a fantastic stadium plan and great financing, but if the market support is tepid? Well, it’s as important as any other component in deciding if any of the cities in question will have the NFL in its future.
“You got it,” Grubman said. “It is a key part. And that’s why we chose to do them independently (with the Legends firm), so that owners weren’t presented with a plan that had a filter from someone that either wanted to be in that market, or didn’t want to be there.”
For beleaguered Rams fans who remember the unsuccessful effort to land an expansion team in the early 1990s, followed by the successful effort to lure the Rams from Los Angeles to the Midwest, you can almost hear the collective groan of Not Again.
For the second time in less than 25 years, the region must show the National Football League how much it likes the product.
Wait, there’s more. Grubman said the NFL has discussed the possibility of conducting some sort of PSL (personal seat license)/luxury seating campaign as was conducted during the expansion process.
“We’ve talked about it,” he said. “I don’t think that we would necessarily want to take that step without all the other pieces being in place.”
By that he meant the land assembly, financing, etc.
And then, almost thinking out loud, Grubman added, “If your question is would we launch that (premium seating campaign), and if it failed would we pull back (from a market)? I wouldn’t like to do that.
“I want to think about that some more.”
Grubman said the league discussed such a seating campaign for Los Angeles when having a team there was a league-driven plan as opposed to the present team owner-driven plan.
“Once teams are involved, I’m not sure that a team wants to do that because they are tainting their existing market if they’re out selling in a new market,” he said.
Rams fans and corporations in St. Louis might not be too fired up about committing to season tickets or luxury boxes if the Rams were undertaking a simultaneous campaign in Los Angeles.
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