New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[2105]

Mr. B does seem to be a bit more centered on this whole relocation topic, more than some (talking about you Fred Roggin but there's something missing here with this statement. Vinnie came to the Heartland and spent a few days here..who did he talk with to get this gut feeling? Just can't imagine anyone with the Rams would grant access to the inner office to a reporter from out of town visiting for a few days. Our own reporters dont get that. Same with access to Peacock and Blitz. Did he just wander down to Laclede's Landing for a cold frosty and talk with some of the locals? Did he touch base with some of the local reporters such as Bernie and Jim T.? Maybe he talked with the gloomy CVC folks that want the EJD all to themselves?? I enjoy reading what Vinnie has to say, but I would like to know what prompted this "gut feeling" before putting much stock into it.

I believe he's said he's working on a story regarding what he learned

 

[iced]

I'm going to go with, "Stan is dead set on getting to Los Angeles and the other two teams are reacting and scrambling in hopes of maintaining leverage in their home markets."

maintaining leverage? They have new leverage because of this new threat to move, they had little before. And no city took their teams seriously without it.

 

[Alan]

I haven't been reading this but you guys must be having a great time in here! Over 6,200 posts!!!

Plus nobody dead. :banana::cheers:

 

[blue4]

Mr. B does seem to be a bit more centered on this whole relocation topic, more than some (talking about you Fred Roggin but there's something missing here with this statement. Vinnie came to the Heartland and spent a few days here..who did he talk with to get this gut feeling? Just can't imagine anyone with the Rams would grant access to the inner office to a reporter from out of town visiting for a few days. Our own reporters dont get that. Same with access to Peacock and Blitz. Did he just wander down to Laclede's Landing for a cold frosty and talk with some of the locals? Did he touch base with some of the local reporters such as Bernie and Jim T.? Maybe he talked with the gloomy CVC folks that want the EJD all to themselves?? I enjoy reading what Vinnie has to say, but I would like to know what prompted this "gut feeling" before putting much stock into it.

Not to be a downer, but maybe he's opened his eyes? Stan has gone so far farther than a standard leverage ploy that it's hard for me to believe that he is even thinking of staying in STL.

 

[blue4]

I don't think the owners will do anything for stan, let alone let him leave.

And no I don't think the owners will bend over for any one when it comes to relocation fee's . And as you put it, I don't see them bending over or helping Davis move the team, waive fee's, and give him a g4 loan.... lol and i still doubt he could even afford the move with all that help.

Again if they were going to go that far financially - why not just help him build a stadium in oakland?

Because Oakland doesn't seem to want a new stadium. Because it would be 4 teams in California. Because moving the Raiders and waiving some of the fee while providing the g4 would be much cheaper than trying to build on Oakland with no help. Because abandoning the St Louis metro area is bad business, and you have teams in place surrounding Oakland to absorb that market. I'm not saying it will happen, but to me it's as likely if not more likely than Stan losing his fight to go to LA.

 

[The Ripper]

I haven't been reading this but you guys must be having a great time in here! Over 6,200 posts!!!

Plus nobody dead. :banana::cheers:

No, it's all pretty respectful here.

 

[Alan]

It's great to be posting at the ROD isn't it?

 

[The Ripper]

It's great to be posting at the ROD isn't it?

Yes, it is.

 

[iced]

Because Oakland doesn't seem to want a new stadium. Because it would be 4 teams in California. Because moving the Raiders and waiving some of the fee while providing the g4 would be much cheaper than trying to build on Oakland with no help. Because abandoning the St Louis metro area is bad business, and you have teams in place surrounding Oakland to absorb that market. I'm not saying it will happen, but to me it's as likely if not more likely than Stan losing his fight to go to LA.

Expecting owners to waive fee's and then approving the G4 Loan for a team to move out of state is a lot more unlikely then Stan losing his fight to LA. You're scenario is based on a bunch of changing the rules and giving the Davis family, of all owners, a break on a relocation fee...the same family that took the NFL to court years ago over the stadium issue now, lol. Stan on the other hand, doesn't meet the relocation guidelines, and has a public stadium on the table (the other two don't). not to mention you'd be pretty much be setting a precedent then for every other team to use the G4 loan if they want to move out of state - which goes against the entire reason of why it was implemented in the first place.

 

[The Ripper]

Expecting owners to waive fee's and then approving the G4 Loan for a team to move out of state is a lot more unlikely then Stan losing his fight to LA. You're scenario is based on a bunch of changing the rules and giving the Davis family, of all owners, a break on a relocation fee...the same family that took the NFL to court years ago over the stadium issue now, lol. Stan on the other hand, doesn't meet the relocation guidelines, and has a public stadium on the table (the other two don't). not to mention you'd be pretty much be setting a precedent then for every other team to use the G4 loan if they want to move out of state - which goes against the entire reason of why it was implemented in the first place.

Right now neither do Oakland or San Diego. San Diego can get out of the lease early but they still have one. Oakland has a viable stadium in their home market. The NFL doesn't want 2 stadiums in any market and the Raiders had every opportunity to be part of Levi but they refused.

 

[iced]

Right now neither do Oakland or San Diego. San Diego can get out of the lease early but they still have one. Oakland has a viable stadium in their home market. The NFL doesn't want 2 stadiums in any market and the Raiders had every opportunity to be part of Levi but they refused.

no they don't have a viable stadium

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...ds-game-plan-fast-to-keep-Raiders-6208066.php

The biggest question is money. Davis says he wants to stay in Oakland but doesn’t have the deep pockets to pay for what is likely to be a $1 billion replacement for the Coliseum, even with help from the league.

At the same time, city and county officials have made it clear that they won’t dip into their general fund to pay for a new stadium.

Oakland and SD would meet the guidelines if their cities continue to not come up with a viable stadium plan - which unlike St.Louis, they've been working on together for more than a decade. SD And Oakland can also easily make the argument out of the 3, they've shown the most faith over time.

The only way I see Kroenke moving to LA is if the other owners don't approve the STL stadium and he's somehow able to leap frog Spanos and Davis in priority over LA. The only owner who has a city ponying up money, leaving the other two in the dark? Nah. Doesn't fit their mantra they've echoed all along "What's best for all 32 owners."

Another question - if they'd go that all out for oakland, as so many people are suggesting, why not just help them with the Carson stadium?


I'd laugh my ass off though the Owners Helped Mark Davis move the Raiders anywhere - that'd be ironic as hell

 

[The Ripper]

no they don't have a viable stadium

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...ds-game-plan-fast-to-keep-Raiders-6208066.php



Oakland and SD would meet the guidelines if their cities continue to not come up with a viable stadium plan - which unlike St.Louis, they've been working on together for more than a decade. SD And Oakland can also easily make the argument out of the 3, they've shown the most faith over time.

The only way I see Kroenke moving to LA is if the other owners don't approve the STL stadium and he's somehow able to leap frog Spanos and Davis in priority over LA. The only owner who has a city ponying up money, leaving the other two in the dark? Nah. Doesn't fit their mantra they've echoed all along "What's best for all 32 owners."

Another question - if they'd go that all out for oakland, as so many people are suggesting, why not just help them with the Carson stadium?


I'd laugh my ass off though the Owners Helped Mark Davis move the Raiders anywhere - that'd be ironic as hell

Santa Clara is in the Raiders home market. The NFL required it be built for 2 teams and since day one that is where they NFL has wanted them. The problems the Raiders are in is because of their own actions.

 

[iced]

Santa Clara is in the Raiders home market. The NFL required it be built for 2 teams and since day one that is where they NFL has wanted them. The problems the Raiders are in is because of their own actions.

........

doesn't sound like the league would be willing to offer much help to the raiders now then would it...

edit: wait a minute, there's no way in hell the league wants the raiders and niners to share a stadium..

they can't even play a preseason game in peace - the NFL banned them playing in the preseason awhile ago.. no way in hell they'd want them in the same stadium together

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ers-raiders-will-no-longer-meet-in-preseason/

 

[Goose]

Not to be a downer, but maybe he's opened his eyes? Stan has gone so far farther than a standard leverage ploy that it's hard for me to believe that he is even thinking of staying in STL.

I think people are confusing leverage with bluff. Stan has created a situation where he has a development in place that can but does not have to include a stadium. The real money is going to be the development of the area not just the stadium. By attaching a stadium to it he is able to gain more traction for the development while also creating options for himself. The land will be developed by his group with or without a stadium. He has obviously created pressure on the city of STL to help provide him with a top tier stadium. With the price that he bought the Rams at to what they are worth today he is playing with house money. Either way Stan has a place to go and it will be a nice stadium.

As far as staying in STL Stan would only have to invest 250 million to get at least a $500 million dollar return. That's not bad and something to think about especially since the Cardinals have proven to be one of the most profitable in the MLB in the same market. Going to LA would cost around $500 million in fees, about $2 billion for a new stadium, then whatever else for a train facility, offices, hiring new personnel at a LA wage scale, and probably several other things that you and I don't have any clue about. So that potential $3 billion in team value, which I don't believe it would actually be, isn't as big as it may appear. Let's not forget that the league could forgive cross ownership if he stays in STL. That will not happen in LA.

 

[The Ripper]

........

doesn't sound like the league would be willing to offer much help to the raiders now then would it...

edit: wait a minute, there's no way in hell the league wants the raiders and niners to share a stadium..

they can't even play a preseason game in peace - the NFL banned them playing in the preseason awhile ago.. no way in hell they'd want them in the same stadium together

Good point. They have more issues with Charger games. Extra security and they limit alcohol sales. Maybe the solution is to move north to San Quentin

 

[iced]

Good point. They have more issues with Charger games. Extra security and they limit alcohol sales. Maybe the solution is to move north to San Quentin

I heard they were saving that for the Patriots

 

[2105]

maintaining leverage? They have new leverage because of this new threat to move, they had little before. And no city took their teams seriously without it.

Well, the thought that the Chargers could move to LA has very much been on minds in SD for a while.
Everyone knew the dust would have to settle a bit in the mayor's office before anything would get going.

The idea/illusion that the Raiders & Chargers have a potential option in LA certainly spurred more action.

My point is that the relationship between the projects is;

1) Stan wants to move & has the means to make it happen & got the jump on the others.

2) The others couldn't just sit and watch & lose the ability to use LA as a threat.

Now... It'll still be a threat when the Rams move.. But only for one of those teams.

 

[The Ripper]

I heard they were saving that for the Patriots

MCI Foxboro.

MCI= Massachusetts Correctional Institution

 

[iced]

Well, the thought that the Chargers could move to LA has very much been on minds in SD for a while.
Everyone knew the dust would have to settle a bit in the mayor's office before anything would get going.

The idea/illusion that the Raiders & Chargers have a potential option in LA certainly spurred more action.

My point is that the relationship between the projects is;

1) Stan wants to move & has the means to make it happen & got the jump on the others.

2) The others couldn't just sit and watch & lose the ability to use LA as a threat.

Now... It'll still be a threat when the Rams move.. But only for one of those teams.

Except none of those other cities thought their threats were credible to move.. It's been 10 years and they've been saying that - no one gets serious apparently until you start talking land and throwing out pretty drawings.

Not that different between how CVC treated them during Arbitration - the other cities have been acting the same way. Make an offer that you know they won't accept but don't believe they'll move either.

Fair to say at this point now they have all cities' attention.

 

[iced]

MCI Foxboro.

MCI= Massachusetts Correctional Institution

The new England Prisoners...

eh not that too far off these days when you think of numbers of americans incarcerated per capita