New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[Legatron4]

Those are supposed to look like Ram horns?

Umm...hmm...

From the top of it, yeah. I believe so anyway. I thought they planned to put them in there but I might be wrong.

 

[iced]

I dunno, that's a lot of money to sink into a bluff that doesn't seem to be getting anything more than what was initially offered. If its a bluff I think he would have backed off by now.

Hows that a lot of money?Its peanuts to him.

AEG spent $50 million over how many years to get a team?

Smaller investment to get a bigger,better stadium that will host superbowls - not gonna get that at the EJD w/ upgrades.

Let's also not pretend that Stan buying that land isn't a win/win for him either. As a real estate man, his options are endless for it.

 

[V3]

From the top of it, yeah. I believe so anyway. I thought they planned to put them in there but I might be wrong.

I'd rather not have any horns in exchange for some real video screens.

 

[iced]

Okay.
I think having multiple architects and engineers working on a project for months speaks to different intentions when combined with the other factors. And.. again... the people who cover this team regularly all believe he wants to move.
Basically, if you believe that he's done all this for leverage.... it's what you believe.

I didn't say that I believe that 100% - but its reasonable expectation with how we know the NFL has actually operated with LA and the past..

Act like you're moving - oh suddenly all the home markets want to build a stadium....hmmmmm

I've seen nothing, at this point, to make me think it's a leverage play. The leverage created by his initial push may lead to a more attractive second option (Stl in a new stadium), but his first option is that project in Inglewood.

I'm sure you said about the Vikings....or any other team who appeared inches from moving

Saying its not even a possibility it could be a leverage ploy is naive

 

[V3]

Anytime Kevin starts an answer to a question with, "I think anytime..." you know its going to be some disingenuous spin. I get why he's doing it. But it is what it is.

FTFY

 

[V3]

I agree with what you said about disagreeing with you.

That's fine if you want to disagree but can you at least tell me what about this stadium is unique in any way from all the other stadiums in the NFL or college that football fans(not just of the Rams) would think is cool/innovative/creative/different?

 

[Hacksaw]

After reading through most of this thread I'm just wondering if everyone is trying to convince the other guy or convince themselves of what's occurring,,, because nobody knows anything. Myself included.
It has been amazing display of how there are two sides to everything.

Go Rams.

 

[Goose]

After reading through most of this thread I'm just wondering if everyone is trying to convince the other guy or convince themselves of what's occurring,,, because nobody knows anything. Myself included.
It has been amazing display of how there are two sides to everything.

Go Rams.

Hmmmm....how can I convince Hack/saw otherwise?

 

[Moostache]

I am unabashedly a St. Louis homer. I moved here 22 years ago. I work here. I raise my family here. This place has become "home" - and for a transplant into the region, who can't get the 'where did you go to high school?' question immediately, that is saying a lot, it took a long time to feel "at home" here because St. Louis is different than other regions. Not going to say 'better' or 'worse', its just unique and until that really sinks in, its not possible to explain to an outsider. But I simply see this differently than 'conventional wisdom'.

If the Riverfront Stadium proposal continues on to become the Riverfront Stadium project, then the Rams franchise is going to stay put right where it is - in St. Louis. The opinions of the venue may vary, but the most important aspects - entry points and concourses, egress, traffic, parking, viewing angles to the field and capacity for the market in both seating and luxury/corporate boxes - are all up to the NFL standards for 21st century stadiums and deemed acceptable. Retractable roofs, suspended huge video boards, flashy exteriors or down right weird looking things like the Atlanta boondoggle are not requirements. The current owner may very well be moving on sooner rather than later; but the Rams are not going anywhere.

Mark Davis is hardly the "model" NFL owner - poor (by league standards), eccentric (not in a charming way either) and ensconced in a stadium situation he has no hope of solving on his own. The Raiders are one piece of the larger puzzle, but they are the one with the most edges and the hardest to remedy without Stan Kroenke's direct help. Back in January, before Carson was publicly an option, the Rams to L.A. would have been the best solution for the L.A. problem at that time only. But, as the Oakland and San Diego situations for stadiums deteriorate further, and the Raiders financial position remains 'soft' at best, then Inglewood is just 'an option' and no longer 'the option'. Stan wants to maximize his potential revenue no matter where he lands, but he needs more leverage with the league to make Inglewood "THE OPTION" once more.

IF Stan really 'wants' L.A. as his home base (and why any billionaire would 'want' any city over another is kind of laughable, he can live whether ever he chooses and in a town like LA, he won't exactly be 'known' - the guy is not Nicholson or Jerry Buss...he is a recluse and kind of odd looking man truth be told, inserting yourself into a place WITH cool people does not transform you INTO a cool person), it would only be because the $$$ in one spot is vastly better than another - its not like the guy is living in a condo built into the Edward Jones dome now...he is not exactly living in a neighborhood either, worrying about the home owner's association. Kroenke wants to garner the best deal he can for himself, full stop. Right now that could involve a ton of options - moving the Rams unilaterally and daring the league to stop him, moving the Rams after seeking approval from the league and not getting it, selling the Rams to buy the Raiders and move THEM to L.A. since that path would have far less league roadblocks, doing nothing but retaining the Rams and accepting a new stadium deal in St. Louis, etc. etc. etc.

The thing virtually everyone agrees on is that the one thing that won't happen is status quo beyond 2015.
This situation is resolved by December one way or another.

I just think regardless of intention, desire or actions to date, if there is continued progress in St. Louis towards the new stadium, the only way Kroenke ends up in L.A. is as the owner of the Raiders. I just see that as solving more league problems and being the option that ends up winning approval. Maybe the Raiders do share Carson with the Chargers and Spanos and Kroenke figure out a way to coexist - or maybe its Kroenke convincing Spanos to underwrite a portion of Inglewood. I just see new St. Louis ownership and a Spanos-Kroenke / Chargers-Raiders conclusion as the most likely and viable outcome.

In these clashes of billionaires and egos, the thing that usually loses is the guy with the least amount of money and leverage...Spanos has the backing of the other owners and some viable financing options with Goldman rumored, Kroenke has the money, a viable alternative project and the land and financial clout, Davis has neither - in fact, he really has nothing. Oakland and San Diego won't build, St. Louis will. Who is the ultimate loser? The guy with the least power...Mark Davis and the fans in Oakland. Thepotentially Stan Kroenke owned (and Kevin Demoff led) Los Angeles Raiders won't lose and neither will Kroenke himself.

Come to think of it...Jeff Fisher might look pretty good in Silver and Black in L.A....maybe the Rams can get some draft picks for him, but if the Rams fail to make the playoffs again in 2015, he might just be a free-agent!

 

[Dick84]

I didn't say that I believe that 100% - but its reasonable expectation with how we know the NFL has actually operated with LA and the past..

Act like you're moving - oh suddenly all the home markets want to build a stadium....hmmmmm



I'm sure you said about the Vikings....or any other team who appeared inches from moving

Saying its not even a possibility it could be a leverage ploy is naive

I've already said I'm going to play nice... so.. back off on the "naive" stuff. The worlds of difference between Minnesota's situation and Stan's situation is fairly clear and well documented. As I've said... based on *all the information* I've read, including the comments of writers covering the team.. Stan wants to move.
Your AEG comment shows really how little you understand that situation and how they are different.. and, we have no idea how much Stan has actually spent. We know the Inglewood plot sold for $60 million.. and have no idea how much he's spent on the designs and campaign.
"Leverage" would be buying Inglewood and announcing then they plan to build. He didn't do that. He waited until he was well along in the design phase to drop that bomb.
I don't *know* the outcome. I know Stan wants to move.
Also... I can't help but point out how much everyone involved in the Riverfront project mix in "An NFL" team or city in regards to that project. Seems relevant.

 

[Rmfnlt]

The more I look at this, the more I really don't like it. Sorry, just being honest. I think it looks like the ceiling of my elementary school's gym. Horrible(worst in the NFL) video screens, no unique features at all, unbalanced, and skeletal. I know people aren't going to agree with me but I've slept on it and looked again and I'm really disappointed.

Based on your avatar, I would have guessed it was quite attractive to you.

 

[Moostache]

The more I look at this, the more I really don't like it. Sorry, just being honest. I think it looks like the ceiling of my elementary school's gym. Horrible(worst in the NFL) video screens, no unique features at all, unbalanced, and skeletal. I know people aren't going to agree with me but I've slept on it and looked again and I'm really disappointed.

High school gym? Damn...where did you go to high school?
(j/k - I misread that the first time through....must have been a hell of an elementary school though!)

Impressions and opinions vary, but the proposed stadium is light years better than the current dome and it would mean outdoor football which should be mandatory! Indoor football - even when the Rams were the GSOT and entertaining as hell - is an abomination in line with Astroturf, the DH and the Chicago Cubs.

 

[V3]

Based on your avatar, I would have guessed it was quite attractive to you.

Do you even know why that's my avatar?

 

[Rmfnlt]

Do you even know why that's my avatar?

No, but it's creepy and a lot uglier than the stadium! LOL

 

[V3]

No, but it's creepy and a lot uglier than the stadium! LOL

I'd argue that Sloth at least has features that differentiate him from everyone else....and in a good way. The Rams' video screens are more lopsided than his face, too.

 

[iced]

I've already said I'm going to play nice... so.. back off on the "naive" stuff.

saying that "you know what Kroenke wants" and acting like LA hasn't been used for leverage several times over the past 20 years is a bit naive - but to each his own.

Lol then I'll just let you believe what you will - you seem dead set on your beliefs so I see no reason to even waste my time.

 

[RamFan503]

All Stan has really 'invested' in the Inglewood project are the costs of the architectural renderings, the architects' fees, the other pre-construction development details that he HAD to have done, AND any greasing of the Inglewood palms that was required to keep the city council and mayor on board with the project.

The site itself? Can ALWAYS be developed for something, even if it is not, ultimately, a football stadium.

Stan is a DEVELOPER. It is what he does. He can display 'renderings' until the cows come home but that doesn't mean that those renderings actually depict what will eventually be sited on that particular parcel of land.

So, I have to disagree with dick84. At this point, no one REALLY KNOWS what Kroenke is up to. He might, indeed, want to move to LA, or he might want to stay in St. Louis.

He has money enough to do any damned thing he pleases -- up to and including spending $20 million of his own money, which is a pittance for guys like him, to put the fear of God in the hearts of St. Louis fans, Missouri politicians, and others with a vested interest in keeping the Rams in St. Louis.

I think Kroenke would consider it 'money well spent' if he gets what he wants when he wants it.

I agree. Why doesn't his spending money on architects and such work in his favor as far as leverage? How much time and money did he spend to get the Rams TO St Louis? How much did those millions he has likely spent on the Inglewood project, actually increase his value and position in a St Louis venue? How much sooner will it be giving him a stadium in St Louis to increase his revenues simply because he forced the issue with a very real and tangible threat to move and move quickly.

Stan was born and raised in MO. Do we not think he understands the politics of the area? I have to think that Stan knew full well he wasn't getting a stadium built by playing the same bullshit games going on in SD, OAK, Minn.... the list goes on. So who is to say that he didn't force the issue on his schedule? And let's say he played the game the way most owners have done. How many millions does he lose over the ten or fifteen years he waits for a new stadium? My guess is FAR more than he has spent on specific stadium related items in Inglewood.

I am actually leaning toward the Rams staying in St Louis honestly.

 

[beej]

That's fine if you want to disagree but can you at least tell me what about this stadium is unique in any way from all the other stadiums in the NFL or college that football fans(not just of the Rams) would think is cool/innovative/creative/different?

We look at things a little differently when it comes to stadiums. I don't need innovative/creative/different. It seems to me that if that's what you make you happy you'd be sorely disappointed in about 5 years when other towns start building stadiums that are even wilder than the one you use to like.
What I like in a stadium is:
efficiency in and out,
comfortable for the fans,
uncomfortable for opposing teams,
open air environment,
looks like it belongs in the location it's in.

When the houston Astros built their stadium there was all kinds of innovation and creativity, personally, I thought the whole thing was moronic, right down to the flag pole on a hill in centerfield.

I mean if you like that sort of thing, that's fine. It's just not my cup of tea. Busch stadium doesn't have any outlandish creativity. but it is a beautiful park in my opinion and it gives me and the city a lot of pride.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I'd argue that Sloth at least has features that differentiate him from everyone else....and in a good way. The Rams' video screens are more lopsided than his face, too.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one! LOL

 

[Rmfnlt]

uncomfortable for opposing teams,

I have not seen anything with regard to acoustics on the stadium... ala Quest Field.