New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[BuiltRamTough]

Labor, Developers Reach Deal on Proposed NFL Stadium

Labor leaders announced Thursday that they have resolved a dispute with developers that threatened to delay construction of a proposed 80,000-seat stadium near Los Angeles that could become home for an NFL team.

Earlier this month, labor leaders became alarmed after concluding that certain jobs connected to the nearly $2 billion project backed by St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke might be awarded to non-unionized workers. Labor trouble could make a stadium project less appealing to the NFL and its owners, who ultimately decide on possible team moves.

In a statement Thursday, Los Angeles County Federation of Labor Executive Secretary Rusty Hicks said agreements have been reached on those jobs for the project in Inglewood, about 10 miles from downtown Los Angeles.

Hicks said the federation has "reached its goal — 100 percent of our unions have signed agreements for the proposed Inglewood stadium development. The promise of good jobs — both for the project's construction and for ongoing operations — is now a guarantee."

"We now have certainty that the project will be an economic engine for the entire region and help turn the tide against poverty-level jobs in Los Angeles," Hicks added.

The politically powerful unions had been quietly gathering petition signatures in Inglewood that could have led to a local vote on the plan, potentially delaying development of the project and forcing organizers to invest additional time and money.

Any delays could be costly, with a rival stadium plan proposed by the San Diego Chargers and the Oakland Raiders moving ahead in nearby Carson.

In San Diego on Thursday, the county and city announced they have joined forces in a bid to keep its NFL franchise. Mayor Kevin Faulconer and county supervisors will together spend up to $500,000 on consultants, attorneys, bankers and other experts. Voters will eventually decide whether to back a new stadium for the Chargers.

The mayor's stadium task force is expected to announce a financing plan by May 20 in San Diego's Mission Valley area.

Under current NFL rules, the next opportunity for a team to file to relocate would be in January 2016. State and local officials in Missouri have been maneuvering to keep the Rams.

http://news.yahoo.com/labor-developers-reach-deal-proposed-inglewood-stadium-001407998--spt.html

Well that's that. Inglewood jumped another hurdle.

Btw the SD part is huge too and they're catching up.

 

[BuiltRamTough]

My original point was to question why it seems that most people seem to think he wouldn't be willing to put up his share in the STL if he isn't going to own it, but he is more than willing to pay his share of the PROPOSED $1.86B in Inglewood, when in fact no one knows what his ownership or contribution in that project would actually be.

And to my point, NFL owners don't OWN and OPERATE their stadiums. It doesn't make financial sense. All I am trying to point out, is he would have plenty of incentive to stay in STL if the deal made sense and gets done. Owning or not owning it won't impact his decision IMO.

Someone like Stan Kroneke knows what he is getting into financially in LA.

 

[MrMotes]

I think the obvious answer to the question of why LA and not St. Louis, is simple.

Two years ago the Clippers were valued at about $600M. They recently sold for $2B. The Dodgers were valued at about $900M, and sold for $2B and are now valued north of $3B. The Rams value in St. Louis, like it or not, is currently valued at $950M, give or take. If Kroenke moved the Rams to LA, I am guessing it would be worth $3B conservatively if the Clippers are worth $2B. Under that scenario, it makes financial sense to invest in a billion dollar new stadium because it still nets you a billion+ dollar return. If you consider that crazy advertising rights scheme, and possibly hosting 4 - 6 Superbowls, that value is considerably higher. That kind of return is not available in St. Louis, even with a new stadium. At least, that is my guess.

I doubt Stan Kroenke gives a hoot about the Dome or the outdoor stadium. He cares about the prestige and cache that would come with owning an NFL team in LA. And the fact that instead of the being at the bottom of Forbes' list, his franchise would be near the top of the most valuable franchises. I see that as what is driving him, not the fact that his players and fans get to play and watch football in a new stadium.

Good stuff. And it's not just the increase in value, the stadium can earn back its cost in no time:

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23211519/49ers-stadium-revenue-tops-1-billion-after-santa

49ers stadium revenue tops $1 billion after Santa Clara leaders approve Levi's Stadium name deal.
By Mike Rosenberg

mrosenberg@mercurynews.com

POSTED: 05/09/2013 06:20:07 PM PDT0 COMMENTS| UPDATED: ABOUT A YEAR AGO

SANTA CLARA -- A lot of people were blown away at the whopping $1.2 billion cost of the San Francisco 49ers' new stadium. But with a unanimous vote by city leaders Thursday to sign a naming-rights deal with Levi Strauss & Co., the team's new home field has topped $1 billion in revenue from fans and corporations.

The financial windfall continued as the Santa Clara City Council, wearing its Stadium Authority hats, approved a $220 million deal to call the new field Levi's Stadium. The latest big-money score follows more than $800 million in seat and luxury box sales over the last year and a half. ...

This is why private financing is now such a vaiable option, at least in bigger markets...

 

[CoachO]

I would assume if he were to rush it now, then there would be blowback. It passed the senate already afterall. I don't know the process though. I think that even if the bill passes, the financing for the St Louis half will get figured out, it's more the Kroenke half.

If there's another invester coming in to cover the Kroenke half, I would wonder what he is getting in return for his investments though. I don't discount there are other things, nor do I think you're making up things, I just think that it sound very optimistic to say it's 99% a done deal. Maybe 99% a done deal on their end (and even then it seems too high). I think if we were that close, there would be far more about it.

That being said, the Peacock group hasn't flinched, but they cant afford to either. I do think they are confident they will get their half figured out, and I expect they will.



Kroenke is a land developer though, he typically owns the land, owns the building, owns the team.

Kroenke, or his group Kroenke Sports Enterprises, owns the Nuggets, Avalanche, Mammoths, and Rapids all in Colorado, as well as the Rams in St Louis and the Arsenal in the UK.

Nuggets, Avs, and Mammoths all play in the Pepsi Center. Who owns the Pepsi Center? Stan Kroenke. Who operates the Pepsi Center? Stan Kroenke.

Rapids, Rams, and Arsenal all play in stadiums not owned by Kroenke. What's the common aspect? They all got their current stadiums before Kroenke became owner (or majority owner in the case of the Arsenal). However even then, the Rapids play at the Dicks Sporting Goods Park, owned part by Kroenke and part by the City of Commerce City. Who operates the stadium? Stan Kroenke.

So while that doesn't mean that Kroenke will definitely own and operate the Inglewood project, every stadium he has built for his team he has owned and operated. That's not just something pulled out of thin air, that is what he has done in the past. You have to expect he'd do it with the Inglewood project as well. How much of a sticking point that is for him in St Louis, I don't know, but he can certainly use it as a reason why it's not viable for him if he wanted to.

*Edit* I believe the majority of the stadium is also on his 60 Acres.

I completely understand everything you are saying. But owning and operating a 20K seat arena that houses THREE of your entities in the same city, is a far cry from owning (and we still don't know to what extent he will) an 80K seat NFL Stadium. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. None of us know one way or another.

My ONLY point still remains, everyone is assuming that paying $250M + in STL and not owning the stadium is somehow going to be THE issue that keeps him from working on a plan in STL. At the same time, NO ONE other than Kroenke and Stockbridge really know what the terms are of his partnership and what % he is gonna contribute, and if he is in fact going to be the principle owner of the Inglewood project.

 

[BuiltRamTough]

Good stuff. And it's not just the increase in value, the stadium can earn back it's cost in no time:

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23211519/49ers-stadium-revenue-tops-1-billion-after-santa

49ers stadium revenue tops $1 billion after Santa Clara leaders approve Levi's Stadium name deal.
By Mike Rosenberg

mrosenberg@mercurynews.com

POSTED: 05/09/2013 06:20:07 PM PDT0 COMMENTS| UPDATED: ABOUT A YEAR AGO

SANTA CLARA -- A lot of people were blown away at the whopping $1.2 billion cost of the San Francisco 49ers' new stadium. But with a unanimous vote by city leaders Thursday to sign a naming-rights deal with Levi Strauss & Co., the team's new home field has topped $1 billion in revenue from fans and corporations.

The financial windfall continued as the Santa Clara City Council, wearing its Stadium Authority hats, approved a $220 million deal to call the new field Levi's Stadium. The latest big-money score follows more than $800 million in seat and luxury box sales over the last year and a half. ...

This is why private financing is now such a vaiable option, at least in bigger markets...

If SF could get that much money back and they could make it work in SF what do you think LA is going to do? Especially with a clear roof and the worlds biggest billboard.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I think the obvious answer to the question of why LA and not St. Louis, is simple.

Two years ago the Clippers were valued at about $600M. They recently sold for $2B. The Dodgers were valued at about $900M, and sold for $2B and are now valued north of $3B. The Rams value in St. Louis, like it or not, is currently valued at $950M, give or take. If Kroenke moved the Rams to LA, I am guessing it would be worth $3B conservatively if the Clippers are worth $2B. Under that scenario, it makes financial sense to invest in a billion dollar new stadium because it still nets you a billion+ dollar return. If you consider that crazy advertising rights scheme, and possibly hosting 4 - 6 Superbowls, that value is considerably higher. That kind of return is not available in St. Louis, even with a new stadium. At least, that is my guess.

I doubt Stan Kroenke gives a hoot about the Dome or the outdoor stadium. He cares about the prestige and cache that would come with owning an NFL team in LA. And the fact that instead of the being at the bottom of Forbes' list, his franchise would be near the top of the most valuable franchises. I see that as what is driving him, not the fact that his players and fans get to play and watch football in a new stadium.

Except of course, he's already a billionare.

At his age, Missouri born... he's got what to accomplish?

His legacy in the NFL is... What?

I can't help but look at this thinking; what is Stan's end game?

Most look at the answer thru their lens.

 

[rhinobean]

If you read between the lines about what went on at the owners meeting and some of their statements, it seems as if the Inglewood stadium looks good to them! Doubt that any owner is going to say "yeah, I'll take my team to STL"! A few years back I'd have thought maybe Jacksonville would be a good candidate, not now! Love to see that riverfront stadium built in downtown STL but what for if a team's not available?

 

[MrMotes]

If SF could get that much money back and they could make it work in SF what do you think LA is going to do? Especially with a clear roof and the worlds biggest billboard.

True, but i think that stadium ended up in Santa Clara for a reason: There's an unbelievable amount of money there too. And if Stan did build his stadium in Inglewood and move the Rams, not only would he not be paying rent, he'd potentially be collecting it from a second team...

 

[BuiltRamTough]

True, but i think that stadium ended up in Santa Clara for a reason: There's an unbelievable amount of money there too. And if Stan did build his stadium in Inglewood and move the Rams, not only would he not be paying rent, he'd potentially be collecting it from a second team...

I agree. Listen we could argue that the Rams should stay in STL l, sure but we can not argue the fact that a team in LA will make way more money then STL could every make. That's a fact. There's is a reason why the NFL says they want 2 teams in LA and the Chargers and Raiders are teaming up. You think 1 team playing in arguably the best stadium in the world wont make tons of profit. It's a given. No matter what anyone says as off right now there is a bigger Rams fan base in LA then the chargers and raiders combined.

1.Right owner (Bc he's rich)
2. Right team
3. Right stadium

That's the recipe to relocate in LA

 

[bluecoconuts]

I completely understand everything you are saying. But owning and operating a 20K seat arena that houses THREE of your entities in the same city, is a far cry from owning (and we still don't know to what extent he will) an 80K seat NFL Stadium. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. None of us know one way or another.

My ONLY point still remains, everyone is assuming that paying $250M + in STL and not owning the stadium is somehow going to be THE issue that keeps him from working on a plan in STL. At the same time, NO ONE other than Kroenke and Stockbridge really know what the terms are of his partnership and what % he is gonna contribute, and if he is in fact going to be the principle owner of the Inglewood project.

I don't think that's THE issue, but I don't doubt it can be one of them. I think there are many reasons why he, at this point, is willing to work with Inglewood more than St Louis. And being a bluff is potentially one of them.

If Kroenke thinks he can own and operate it, then I think he will. As far as I know right now he wouldn't get a lot of different revenue streams from the St Louis stadium, when its expected he will in Inglewood (for different events), and he may not like that.

I think it can go many different ways, but from the looks of things he certainly likes and wants to own it all. Multiple people with more sources than I'll ever have say he wants to own the dirt under it, which he does in Inglewood. St Louis can certainly make it more attractive to him, but I always got the feeling they were hesitant about doing that after getting bent over last time.

 

[dieterbrock]

Because at this point, the city, state and county are stepping up to put it together. You could ask the same question 20 yrs ago? Why did he let the city, state and county pay for the Dome? He also didnt set out to build the Inglewood stadium on his own,, He joined and existing development project that now includes a plan for a stadium.

Apples and oranges.

The dome was being built while the Rams were still playing in Los Angeles.

 

[CoachO]

The dome was being built while the Rams were still playing in Los Angeles.

But Kroenke was a vital piece on the chess board to get them here. Using the dome as an example was a poor attempt to make a point. I didn't realize anyone would take it literally. But thanks for pointing it out.

 

[MrMotes]

But Kroenke was a vital piece on the chess board to get them here. Using the dome as an example was a poor attempt to make a point. I didn't realize anyone would take it literally. But thanks for pointing it out.

Stan Kroenke helped Georgia and John Shaw get a lot of money out of the city of St. Louis. Frontiere was not in great financial shape, by NFL owner standards. when she moved the Rams, kind of like Mark Davis today. The deal she got in St. Louis gave her financial security, among other things.

This is not at all where Kroenke is coming from.

Very much apples and oranges...

 

[MarkMyWords]

Is Stockbridge a publicly traded company? I take it they have stockholders.... Is it possible to find out if Konke owns a piece of it? Just curious....

 

[CoachO]

Stan Kroenke helped Georgia and John Shaw get a lot of money out of the city of St. Louis. Frontiere was not in great financial shape, by NFL owner standards. when she moved the Rams, kind of like Mark Davis today. The deal she got in St. Louis gave her financial security, among other things.

This is not at all where Kroenke is coming from.

Very much apples and oranges...

i agree with that. I guess I am just naive enough to believe its not all over but the shouting. None of us really know what is going on behind the scenes. in LA or in STL.

 

[Speedr@m]

Labor, Developers Reach Deal on Proposed NFL Stadium


That's a big deal. Butts said it would take a week or so to resolve

 

[MrMotes]

i agree with that. I guess I am just naive enough to believe its not all over but the shouting. None of us really know what is going on behind the scenes. in LA or in STL.

I agree. It seems to me like SK is determined to move. But none of us really know. We'll find out one of these days. And if they do go, i certainly wouldn't put it on the city or people of St. Louis...

 

[CoachO]

I agree. It seems to me like SK is determined to move. But none of us really know. We'll find out one of these days. And if they do go, i certainly wouldn't put it on the city or people of St. Louis...

The thing that I don't see being talked about publicly at this point, but it was mentioned a while back, that the opportunity for Kroenke to develop a "Ballpark Village" type project similar to what they have down the street with the Cardinals, or more specifically, something similar to what Robert Kraft has is New England would be one of the carrots dangled in the negotiations here. Along obviously, an attractive parking and concessions package, etc.

You may be right, it might all be a moot point, but until someone comes out and makes a formal announcement one way or another, all any of us our doing is speculating. And each and everyone of us, see things thru a set of eyes that tend to see what we want to see.

 

[BuiltRamTough]

I didn't know it has a retractable roof also?



New Stadium Designs Brings Inglewood Stadium to Life
Inglewood’s stadium dreams became more real on Tuesday when HKS, an architecture firm hired by St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke, presented stunning new renderings of the project. The inspiring presentation vividly captured the look and field of the future sports venue.

Since Kroenke purchased 60 acres in Inglewood last year, rumors surfaced that it was a ploy to make St. Louis meet his demands for a new Rams stadium. But now, with just one season under contract at Edward Jones Dome, and armed with finished plans to NFL owners meeting in Arizona this week, it doesn’t appear that Kroenke is playing games—at least not in St. Louis. Analysts say the billionaire sports and real estate tycoon would never invest money in Inglewood if he did not intend to relocate his team.

Fortunately, Kroenke has lots of ammunition. The proposed 80,000-seat stadium is packed with amenities that provide football fans with fresh new experiences. It is described as “the world's most interactive and integrated football stadium, a futuristic, $1.86-billion, privately financed venue proposed for the Hollywood Park site in Inglewood.”

The NFL has the final say on whether the Rams will move to Inglewood or remain in St. Louis after the 2015-16 season. Such a move requires at least a three quarters vote by the 32 league owners. None of that has deterred HKS or Hollywood Park Land Company—developers of the new 238-acre site which will integrate the stadium into its design—from moving forward.

The new renderings reveal several attractive design features:

· A huge, snail-shaped clear roof that can be used "to create the world's biggest billboard,” visible to 35 million travelers flying in and out of L.A. each year. Retractable roof design that allows the venue to adjust to accommodate events of all sizes when there is no sporting event going on.

· Built to accommodate two teams, the stadium will have two home locker rooms, identical sets of office space, and two owners' suites.

· Four-sided design allows the venue to be approached by the public from 360 degrees. There would be no fenced-off areas at ground level such as loading docks, mechanical yards, or dumpsters. These functions will be performed in underground areas.

· Built below ground level to comply with height restrictions imposed on buildings within the LAX flight path.

Noting the firm’s commitment to building the world’s most unique sports venue, Mark Williams, HKS sports and entertainment business director, said, “We are studying the (Southern California) region from the climate to the way people experience sports and entertainment and letting that drive the design.” Concepts guiding the design will include embedded objects, regional character, layering, and sustainability. “We don’t need to do a building that looks like every other stadium when we can take advantage of the best climate in the country.”

Designed for multiple purposes, not just for football games, the stadium can be used for a number of other events as well. “This will be the most successful stadium in the world,” Williams said. “Whether it’s a 12-year-old’s birthday party or the Super Bowl, this is something they will remember the rest of their lives.”

"So many stadiums are a big building that's out in a field somewhere," Hollywood Park Land Co. senior vice president Chris Meany said. "Very few have been integrated into the community."

The stadium is expected to be finished in 2018. Teams moving to L.A. before then will most likely play at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

 

[dbrooks25]

I can't see any of that happening. Just no way the NFL can force someone like SK to stay in the dome, or force him to pay what will amount to more like $450M once he has to pay off that G4 loan. And IMO, putting the "kabosh" on him is probably the furthest thing from their minds......

The NFL would force Kroenke to stay in St. Louis, not the dome. If the Rams stay, being in the dome would be Stan's choice. It really is simple and I don't understand how some do not get it. If the Rams stay, Stan can either: A. Put up his part of the $$$ for the new stadium. B. Stick with the EJD. C. Acquire his own land and put up his own stadium.

You may not be able to see any of that happening, but like everyone else here you do not know what will happen.