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ChrisW

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It may make them better financial due to the market being so big but thats about it.

Can you clarify this? The only thing the move does is inflate the value of the franchise. financials of the team would remain relatively the same based on profit sharing and the salary cap.

If you mean Stan specifically...he would be bringing in more money, but in some LA times article, it said he wouldn't make his money back from this deal until he was in his mid 80s. So you can probably throw out money as to why he wants this.
 

LosAngelesRams

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Can you clarify this? The only thing the move does is inflate the value of the franchise. financials of the team would remain relatively the same based on profit sharing and the salary cap.

If you mean Stan specifically...he would be bringing in more money, but in some LA times article, it said he wouldn't make his money back from this deal until he was in his mid 80s. So you can probably throw out money as to why he wants this.

Yes i was referring to Stan and the franchise value.
 

drasconis

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You do mean what Kroenke paid because that's the money she used, believe Georgia also did things on somebody's else's dime.


Yes, she Kroenke paid her money for a percentage of her team, and she paid the league....doesn't change the deal made in the G-4, doesn't matter how she got the money....she paid the league and also gave up other concessions....
 

BuiltRamTough

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Can you clarify this? The only thing the move does is inflate the value of the franchise. financials of the team would remain relatively the same based on profit sharing and the salary cap.

If you mean Stan specifically...he would be bringing in more money, but in some LA times article, it said he wouldn't make his money back from this deal until he was in his mid 80s. So you can probably throw out money as to why he wants this.
Agreed. Jerry Jones made a comment about this weeks ago. He said something in line of"this is for his (Stans) family" etc. By the time he gets all his money back on the LA stadium he would probably be dead. His family will reap the benefits when it's all payed off 20-30 years from now.
 

dbrooks25

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davidhunn @davidhunn
Peacock, on Inglewood vote: repeats "100% committed" to STL stadium. "Be assured, we will have more progress to share in the weeks ahead."
Thanks for posting this. I'm only concerned with what Peacock and team does and that guy is excellent at this. I'm tired of going back and forth, but my opinion is as long as there is a new stadium in St. Louis the Rams aren't going anywhere. Worst case, St. Louis will be an NFL city.
 

drasconis

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I don't want to get into a legal debate, but I bet that if an owner wants to move his or her franchise they have the right to do so without league approval, however, IMO, that won't happen because it would cause a rift. But owners have that right and Jerry Jones spoke about that not too long ago.

"If Kroenke were to buck the league's conventional rules and move without permission, it would not be the first time it has happened in the NFL. The Oakland Raiders moved to Los Angeles in 1982 after then-owner Al Davis decided to move his franchise elsewhere. Former commissioner Pete Rozelle attempted to block the move through legal proceedings, but the Raiders still left before ultimately returning to Oakland on their own accord in 1995."

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/13/7536819/jerry-jones-stan-kreonke-relocation-nfl-rams


you are getting into a legal debate....based upon what you post, if you do not want that than post as opinion not legal fact. When you speak in absolutes you treat things as facts not opinions.

Jerry is giving opinion, not fact (yes the past results are fact, but a future outcome is opinion), he does not have final say on it (he is 1 of 32 not 1 of 1). No sooner did Jerry say that than the league and other owners disagreed (once again opinion). Yes Jerry states things like they are "fact" but that doesn't make them so.
 

blue4

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Thanks for posting this. I'm only concerned with what Peacock and team does and that guy is excellent at this. I'm tired of going back and forth, but my opinion is as long as there is a new stadium in St. Louis the Rams aren't going anywhere. Worst case, St. Louis will be an NFL city.

I may be overly pessimistic, but that's not the worst case. It's entirely possible, maybe even probable, that we end up with squat and a renewed interest in Blues hockey. I still put it at 60-40 the Rams leave. I'd go far lower than that finding someone being able to pay a relocation fee plus the stadium money we would need for a new stadium. The only one rich enough to swallow that is trying to move out.

Now I'm off to piss in someone else's cheerios.
 

iced

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you are getting into a legal debate....based upon what you post, if you do not want that than post as opinion not legal fact. When you speak in absolutes you treat things as facts not opinions.

Jerry is giving opinion, not fact (yes the past results are fact, but a future outcome is opinion), he does not have final say on it (he is 1 of 32 not 1 of 1). No sooner did Jerry say that than the league and other owners disagreed (once again opinion). Yes Jerry states things like they are "fact" but that doesn't make them so.

Art Rooney believes they can legally stop a team from moving

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLc...on-the-Rams-Raiders-and-Chargers-Futures.aspx

-Chris Mortenson of ESPN and Daniel Kaplan of the Sports Business Journal are among those who expect the NFL to uphold its relocation bylaws/guidelines. Art Rooney II -- chairman of the NFL's stadium committee -- is confident that they could legally stop a team from moving.
 

den-the-coach

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you are getting into a legal debate....based upon what you post, if you do not want that than post as opinion not legal fact. When you speak in absolutes you treat things as facts not opinions.

Jerry is giving opinion, not fact (yes the past results are fact, but a future outcome is opinion), he does not have final say on it (he is 1 of 32 not 1 of 1). No sooner did Jerry say that than the league and other owners disagreed (once again opinion). Yes Jerry states things like they are "fact" but that doesn't make them so.

Okay so let's leave it at that, it's opinion not fact.
 

den-the-coach

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Yes, she Kroenke paid her money for a percentage of her team, and she paid the league....doesn't change the deal made in the G-4, doesn't matter how she got the money....she paid the league and also gave up other concessions....

That she did and thus they gave her the votes.
 

Legatron4

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1st of all, moving to LA is not going to make them a magical team that instantly starts winning. It may make them better financial due to the market being so big but thats about it. 2nd correct me if im wrong but haven't the Rams have the worst attendance in the league due to losing seasons? So i dont see how LA supporting losers and STL supporting losers is any different.

3rd, Lets not turn this into a LA vs STL thing.
Okay, so you say this makes them better financially. The NFL has rules against relocating if you're just trying to make a quick buck. St.Louis supports the Rams very well for how shitty they've been. I'm only comparing them to LA because there's way more to do in California. Would you rather go to the beach or watch a 2-7 football team? I really don't believe they're concerning themselves with these things. Do you realize how much tickets will cost? I certainly can't afford $200 nosebleeds. The Rams are finally building something great in St.Louis and they just wanna take that away? What if the players don't wanna move? There's too many unanswered questions. The Rams will lose a ton of fan base including people like me who have lived and died by this team through thick and thin. It's not fair to take them away because Stan is worried about his wallet. They're all greedy fucking bastards.
 

den-the-coach

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They're all greedy freaking bastards.

Have to take the emotion out of it because Greed is relative some would say flipping a house is greed so again wealth is in the eye of the beholder.

But I totally concur with building the fan base up in St. Louis, but you have to remember many of us were rooting for the Rams before they moved to St. Louis and have affinity towards Southern California just like our affinity towards the Gateway City over the last 20 years.

Winning cures everything, but in the end we as fans are on a roller coaster and it would be nice to put this behind us and just focus on winning and getting back to post season, if they put that much energy into winning as relocation the Rams would be the premier NFL Franchise.
 
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RamFan503

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That was kind of the whole point of my post, that I'm disappointed.
As for who to trust, I doubt I'd trust anyone one of the three. Your quote from 5 yrs ago kind backs that up. As he said his actions speak for themselves. We have rallies in SD and thought out stadium plans in LA but nothing here. So yes I'm disappointed.
Bernie himself is not the point. I just used the article as an example. The point IS the silence and how out of the 3 teams we are the ones who hear nothing. Davis has at least once said he's willing to kick in money. If I were an Oakland resident that would make it pretty easy to hold my elected officials accountable. There has been at least communication between Spanos and SD. The St Louis situation is going to come to some sort of vote, whether that's just in the state senate or public. Seems to me showing some interest would help that vote along if he's any desire to work here at all. So really, in regards to what I'm saying, Davis and Spanos being slum lords or whatever is irrelevant. Building Wal Marts and strip malls isn't high on my list of awesome things either. Doesn't matter here. The chargers and raiders fans have at least some inkling their teams may want to stay. If Stan gave that here, that STL stadium would be a done deal, even without a total commitment. That's just my opinion.

I don't know what to tell you man. He said what he said. He hasn't said anything to the contrary. Demoff has echoed what he said several times. People ACTUALLY involved with negotiations say they have been in contact with Kroenke's people throughout the process. He proposed a solution that was chosen in arbitration. The city didn't do anything after that so it's not like they've been proposing things and he hasn't responded. You want a public statement from him that reiterates what he's already said - I guess. Finally a month and a half ago, the Governor's people present a proposal and Stan is supposed to say what exactly?

I understand. You want assurances. But what the heck good are those? Haven't his actions up until the Inglewood project demonstrated that his first priority has always been to have his team in St Louis? The guy has called Missouri home for over 6 decades. He was named after another famous St Louis Stan. He talks in interviews about his fond memories of listening to the Cardinals with his Grampa. He brought the team to St Louis after trying to get an expansion team there. So now he is supposed to give up his leverage to appease the fans when the best way he can appease the fans is to get the best stadium he can?

You can point to other owners that have essentially said, "I want to stay but you need to make it worth it to me." and that is somehow better? Has he really needed to say that this whole time for people not to get it? Do you really think doing that would have brought your city leaders together to get him a proposal? Or do you think it is possible he has watched these yahoos in other cities do that very thing and have it go on for a decade and a half. Clearly THAT is not a recipe for getting things done and my guess is that Stan knew it before and knows it now.

I don't know if Stan is still thinking St Louis as the best option. He may have been burnt by the lack of commitment to his team that the CVC and city leaders demonstrated. But until he files for relocation or moves his team into a stadium that hasn't broken ground, I have to think he is doing everything he can to stay in St Louis and work out the best scenario he can.

Do I need him to tell me this? No I don't. He has actually done more to that end than either of the other two in SD and Oak. BTW - has either Spanos or Davis actually proposed anything besides the Carson project? I mean, have they proposed an actual stadium plan to their respective cities? My understanding is that they have not and that it has been more of - make me a "serious" offer. At least Stan proposed something.

But I can understand a fans desire to hear the owner of his team come out and make statements. For myself I wouldn't mind hearing some. But I look at what has been going on in San Diego in particular and every time one side or the other makes a statement, it is twisted and bastardized and in most cases results in the other side feeling like they have to rebut it by calling the other person out. It's just freaking ugly. So given the choices, I'd rather not hear them spew from their pie holes so they can somehow look good to the fans. Both sides just look like ass hats.
 

Legatron4

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Have to take the emotion out of it because Greed is relative some would say flipping a house is greed so gain wealth is in the eye of the beholder.

But I totally concur with building the fan base up in St. Louis, but you have to remember many of us were rooting for the Rams before they moved to St. Louis and have affinity towards Southern California just like our affinity towards the Gateway City over the last 20 years.

Winning cures everything, but in the end we as fans are on a roller coaster and it would be nice to put this behind us and just focus on winning and getting back to post season, if they put that much energy into winning as relocation the Rams would be the premier NFL Franchise.
Yeah that's exactly right. It would also be great if LA fans weren't being cocky and arrogant about this too. I'm not even from St.Louis and it just bugs the shit out of me to watch them gloat and not give a shred of a shit how Stl fans feel. It makes me hate them and not want to watch the Rams if they move. Not to mention, I have to buy ALL NEW SHIT. Who's paying for that? I have thousands of dollars in STLOUIS Rams gear accumulated over years and years. Is it just worthless now? I know LA fans went through the same thing, and I really do feel bad that they lost two teams. But for god sake, build the Rams, keep them in one city and become a premiere team for years to come. I mean, how long do they stay in LA for? Another 20 years and then they move back again? It's a giant clusterfuck and they just don't care.
 

iced

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Yeah that's exactly right. It would also be great if LA fans weren't being cocky and arrogant about this too. I'm not even from St.Louis and it just bugs the crap out of me to watch them gloat and not give a shred of a crap how Stl fans feel. It makes me hate them and not want to watch the Rams if they move. Not to mention, I have to buy ALL NEW crap. Who's paying for that? I have thousands of dollars in STLOUIS Rams gear accumulated over years and years. Is it just worthless now? I know LA fans went through the same thing, and I really do feel bad that they lost two teams. But for god sake, build the Rams, keep them in one city and become a premiere team for years to come. I mean, how long do they stay in LA for? Another 20 years and then they move back again? It's a giant clusterfuck and they just don't care.

I wouldn't worry about anything until an outcome is reached...

From the get go I've never worried that the Rams are leaving St.Louis, especially since it's the only city of three teams thats actively trying to build a stadium.

And until I see something that actually that says the Rams are moving from the NFL, no point in getting worried about it. We're gonna continue to hear a bunch of rampant speculation through the media (whatever drives in the most drama = the most clicks)..Just let it play out - there's a lot of buzz that thinks the NFL isn't going to allow Kroenke to move, and even if Kroenke doesn't want to play nice with the Stadium comittee (though he said he would), Art Rooney (chairman of the stadium committee) believes they can legally block it. (Not to mention how the NFL is going to look allowing a team to move when their current city is trying to build them a stadium).

Bottom line: there's a lot of hurdles and obstacles that have to be overcome before anything will actually occur, and quite frankly I don't think the Rams are leaving St.Louis as long as there's a stadium on the table.
 

dbrooks25

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I wouldn't worry about anything until an outcome is reached...

From the get go I've never worried that the Rams are leaving St.Louis, especially since it's the only city of three teams thats actively trying to build a stadium.

And until I see something that actually that says the Rams are moving from the NFL, no point in getting worried about it. We're gonna continue to hear a bunch of rampant speculation through the media (whatever drives in the most drama = the most clicks)..Just let it play out - there's a lot of buzz that thinks the NFL isn't going to allow Kroenke to move, and even if Kroenke doesn't want to play nice with the Stadium comittee (though he said he would), Art Rooney (chairman of the stadium committee) believes they can legally block it. (Not to mention how the NFL is going to look allowing a team to move when their current city is trying to build them a stadium).

Bottom line: there's a lot of hurdles and obstacles that have to be overcome before anything will actually occur, and quite frankly I don't think the Rams are leaving St.Louis as long as there's a stadium on the table.
I'm with you, Iced, I feel the exact same way. Why worry about something that hasn't even come close to happening yet? If it doesn't happen, we will have worried for nothing and if it does happen we would have worried twice. Fuck it.
 

RamFan503

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I wouldn't worry about anything until an outcome is reached...

From the get go I've never worried that the Rams are leaving St.Louis, especially since it's the only city of three teams thats actively trying to build a stadium.

And until I see something that actually that says the Rams are moving from the NFL, no point in getting worried about it. We're gonna continue to hear a bunch of rampant speculation through the media (whatever drives in the most drama = the most clicks)..Just let it play out - there's a lot of buzz that thinks the NFL isn't going to allow Kroenke to move, and even if Kroenke doesn't want to play nice with the Stadium comittee (though he said he would), Art Rooney (chairman of the stadium committee) believes they can legally block it. (Not to mention how the NFL is going to look allowing a team to move when their current city is trying to build them a stadium).

Bottom line: there's a lot of hurdles and obstacles that have to be overcome before anything will actually occur, and quite frankly I don't think the Rams are leaving St.Louis as long as there's a stadium on the table.
Well said Iced. I realize that we fans that don't really have a city in the mix have got an easier time dealing with this but I don't know. For some reason, I still think the Rams will stay in St Louis. I realize everything that is going on and also that NFL owners are in it for themselves above all. But Stan worked real hard to get a team to St Louis. And considering his ties to the state, I have to think he did that with the long haul in mind. I can't tell anyone what will end up happening - it's just a hunch.

And hey @Legatron4 - I have both LA gear and St Louis gear. I wear and use both all the time. And for what it's worth, I never considered the Raiduhs an LA team. They were just carpet bagging.
 
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