New Defense - Ongoing season discussion

[Psycho_X]

This stat plus the one I saw earlier that Tre White is giving up around 149 passer rating and is worst at CB is not helping. Jon Johnson and Darious Williams getting injured was a serious hit to that backend.


View: https://x.com/QBsMVP/status/1840798233272176662

 

[Psycho_X]

Bears game is frustrating just because it was a game we should have won. We should have gone into the bye 2-3 at worst. If McVay makes changes or tweaks it usually happens over the bye week. If we can get past the bye and get Williams, Johnson (probably be a couple weeks after bye), and Kupp back we might be back in business. Sprinkle in the rest of IR over the next month or two along with increased participation of Witherspoon and Speights maybe and we can get better. We just have to squeak out a few damn wins. So frustrated by this loss because you can see what they could be if they can just keep the walls from crashing in too soon. Grr.

 

[Merlin]

This stat plus the one I saw earlier that Tre White is giving up around 149 passer rating and is worst at CB is not helping. Jon Johnson and Darious Williams getting injured was a serious hit to that backend.


View: https://x.com/QBsMVP/status/1840798233272176662

Yeah White's ass is gonna be on the pine when Williams returns. I was hoping he'd round into form but it's looking more and more like that old form isn't ever going to return.

And the Curl signing is looking like a disaster. The jury is out with Jackson, due to injury, but I suspect he will also go down as a huge miss.

Early returns are that this was the worst FA window we've had in many years.

 

[Psycho_X]

Yeah White's ass is gonna be on the pine when Williams returns. I was hoping he'd round into form but it's looking more and more like that old form isn't ever going to return.

And the Curl signing is looking like a disaster. The jury is out with Jackson, due to injury, but I suspect he will also go down as a huge miss.

Yeah I don't know what is up with Curl. Was excited for him more than any other free agent signing this offseason. He's at best invisible and at worst getting burned. I don't know if the whole backfield is just plagued by bad chemistry and no communication between the 4-5 of them or what but it's extremely disappointing.

During bye week if we had everyone healthy I'd give green dot to John Johnson, put Speights in for Reeder, Williams replaces White, and maybe switch up Curl and Lake. Idk, Curl seemed to be more in a star like position for Washington last year playing quasi safety/CB and I'm not a big fan of Lake as a back safety but he can't be worse than Curl at this point. If Williams isn't healthy than Witherspoon. I'm not really sure Hummel is any better than Boom so don't think that'd help a whole lot. If we have a heat seeking missile taking care of sideline to sideline maybe Boom can look a little better. But I'm not opposed to trying Hummel either.

Bleh, I'm tired just thinking about it lol.

 

[Merlin]

Yeah I don't know what is up with Curl. Was excited for him more than any other free agent signing this offseason. He's at best invisible and at worst getting burned. I don't know if the whole backfield is just plagued by bad chemistry and no communication between the 4-5 of them or what but it's extremely disappointing.

During bye week if we had everyone healthy I'd give green dot to John Johnson, put Speights in for Reeder, Williams replaces White, and maybe switch up Curl and Lake. Idk, Curl seemed to be more in a star like position for Washington last year playing quasi safety/CB and I'm not a big fan of Lake as a back safety but he can't be worse than Curl at this point. If Williams isn't healthy than Witherspoon. I'm not really sure Hummel is any better than Boom so don't think that'd help a whole lot. If we have a heat seeking missile taking care of sideline to sideline maybe Boom can look a little better. But I'm not opposed to trying Hummel either.

Bleh, I'm tired just thinking about it lol.

Well if we were to look at just the coaching for a moment...

The year Shula spent in the DB room was a catastrophe. That unit was a hot pile of shit. I suppose McVay determined he had learned enough, but I'm not so sure that's true. Now that aside Shula has Aubrey Pleasant running that room so I doubt the coaching has not been there. This probably comes down to players not doing their jobs. But it's a concern to me.

Also btw we have Beake added to the safeties. Not sure what he's teaching them but the disappointment has been across the board other than JJIII.

Secondary needs to turn the corner. And Shula needs to get into why he's certainly not getting the most from the talent available thus far. Especially considering that this rush, while not perfect, is moving QBs quickly off their spot.

 

[DzRams]

This stat plus the one I saw earlier that Tre White is giving up around 149 passer rating and is worst at CB is not helping. Jon Johnson and Darious Williams getting injured was a serious hit to that backend.


View: https://x.com/QBsMVP/status/1840798233272176662

At some point, with all of the subpar performance in the secondary, we have to start looking at the DC. Is he putting them in the best position to excel?

 

[Psycho_X]

At some point, with all of the subpar performance in the secondary, we have to start looking at the DC. Is he putting them in the best position to excel?

Just don't know and won't know for a while. Like I alluded to and @Merlin too, is it coaching or players? I expected a lot of growing pains with this defense the first half of the season. First time DC, a lot of youth, and a lot of free agents in the secondary. Communication and chemistry issues were going to happen. But the level we've seen has been far beyond what I thought it'd be. JJ3 and Williams getting injured hurt us a lot more than we thought it would I think. Those were two players who knew the system and thrived in it for us before. I've got faith in McVay making adjustments to at least make them respectable, will have to see what form that comes in.

 

[DzRams]

Just don't know and won't know for a while. Like I alluded to and @Merlin too, is it coaching or players? I expected a lot of growing pains with this defense the first half of the season. First time DC, a lot of youth, and a lot of free agents in the secondary. Communication and chemistry issues were going to happen. But the level we've seen has been far beyond what I thought it'd be. JJ3 and Williams getting injured hurt us a lot more than we thought it would I think. Those were two players who knew the system and thrived in it for us before. I've got faith in McVay making adjustments to at least make them respectable, will have to see what form that comes in.

My thoughts and expectations were about the same as yours. Except for the secondary. That unit has vets so I expected more from them.

But injuries have ravished there as well. White doesn't look like he did pre-injury. We haven't seen Williams. Curl is a disappointment. That's probably my biggest disappointment on defense so far b/c he's a vet who I thought would make a big impact.

 

[younghutch]

I'm getting a circa-2000 Peter Giunta vibe from this defense.

 

[Tano]

Yeah White's ass is gonna be on the pine when Williams returns. I was hoping he'd round into form but it's looking more and more like that old form isn't ever going to return.

And the Curl signing is looking like a disaster. The jury is out with Jackson, due to injury, but I suspect he will also go down as a huge miss.

Early returns are that this was the worst FA window we've had in many years.

I didn't think White did that bad Sunday

The hold was bad but the PI was pure bullshit.

And the only receptions the defense gave up for the most part were short passes by Willams and the horrible coverage of Moore by a LB.

I am not even going to blame Rozeboom on that coverage because no way in hell is a LB supposed to be covering a WR deep into the end zone. That was a complete broken play on the Rams part.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yeah White's ass is gonna be on the pine when Williams returns. I was hoping he'd round into form but it's looking more and more like that old form isn't ever going to return.

And the Curl signing is looking like a disaster. The jury is out with Jackson, due to injury, but I suspect he will also go down as a huge miss.

Early returns are that this was the worst FA window we've had in many years.

You were spot on with your offseason concerns. I thought if they stayed healthy then they’d have a good group of DBs But I guess/hope JJ and Darius were the two that the Rams couldn’t afford to lose.

White and Williams looked like a better corner tandem than the Rams had on paper last season.

I always thought of Curl as a box safety. Kinchens is a rookie but I expected JJ to be the leader among the safeties. Kinchens and Curl look lost in coverage. Ballhawking was supposed to be Kinchens forte. ( I preferred Mustapha in the draft)

I would like to see more of McCullough, but if Kinchens and Curl are the best in the coaches mind, then I’d say they need as many snaps as they can get.

 

[JBRam77]

Why was Rozeboom in the game at all on that 3rd and Goal from the 6?? Much less covering DJ Fukin Moore…What a complete shit show

 

[Tano]

Why was Rozeboom in the game at all on that 3rd and Goal from the 6?? Much less covering DJ Fukin Moore…What a complete shit show

Why was he in the game at all?

 

[Toothsayer]

I don't have all-22 to understand who covers whom all the time, but my impression is that Tre W has been decent to good on guys like Raymond, St Brown, Dortch, Aiyuk & Moore. Ie, the kind of guys you'd hope a quick 5'9" zone corner could cover. Put him in man on Redwoods like MHjr, et al, different story, although he's been on those guys pretty tightly except for Jamo whose speed is insane. And the penalties have been ticky-tack AF. The solution has to include him, imo; just get him into the role he was brought in to play. If you were expecting Ramsey, dunno what to tell you...

I think I misunderstood/misjudged what re-signing JJ3 meant. Kinchens is clearly much less developed than I hoped & the JJ training wheels were definitely needed for longer, not just injury insurance player/coach stuff. Kam Curl comes across as less than fluent as a communicator in his latest zoom presser. That probably doesn't help.There are too many cooks & no chef up in this kitchen, imo.

In fairness to the Dual Kams, can we agree that the lack of finishing on the DL's part has been a HUGE source of undeserved pressure on them ? One of those symbiotic deals that goes underappreciated, imo. Finish half their chances with a sack or forced inc. & how many of those backbreakers could have been avoided ?

That said, I forget which coach once cracked wise about his team making up for all the passes they dropped by missing all their blocks or words to that effect, but the safeties definitely contributed equally to this mess by getting beeyatch slapped repeatedly by Jennings, et al, once Shula made the sensible adjustment to match for size after the AZ debacle. I don't know what to make of Shula yet, but that seems like an example of logical tactics failing through poor execution.

If the blame pie is finite, we've got to be down to slices so thin that they're transparent to ensure all that deserve one receives it. Which is a shame cuz some guys should be blowing up like that fat kid in Willy Wonka.

I'm hanging on by my gnawed fingernails mostly because I hope that it's less about a deficit of talent than last year, ie fixable to some extent during the season. Getting a good vet man corner back in Darious will help. Of course, re-activating Murch will undoubtedly be pivotal........I'll see myself out.

 

[Steve808]

I am in no way a defensive expert but I call it like I see it. I see a multi pronged problem.

I’m not sure if it’s all on coaching but for sure that is part of the issue.

I see a young defense that lacks leadership (like AD). I see some inexperienced players learning how the pro game works with some raw talent. I see some areas where the defense lacks talent such as LB and I see some blown coverages which could be coaching or incompetence by some players.

I’m glad they beat the whiners but the standards are too high for these results,

All I know is the Rams can still heal up and go on a roll like last season if things start to gel,

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

I always thought curl was a strong safety type, not a coverage type safety. Maybe the Rams misjudged his strengths, although I'm not sure how.

.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I wasn't a fan of the Curl signing when it happened, but I'm hoping for the best.
But, what do I know? I was wonder why they were playing John Johnson III over Kinchens.

Anyway, hopefully Williams can return and force some turnovers. All those pressures and only 1 INT doesn't seem right.

 

[Faceplant]

I had hopes that Brennan Jackson would play and contribute this season. I don't know why, I just had a good feeling about him, haha....

 

[Merlin]

Shula was for sure intimately involved in restacking the safeties. So if they cannot play his calls he will eat it.

White was a dice roll. Williams was the security signing they probably felt they could depend on but injury is a MFer.

On the flipside he did well with the restack on the front. He just made the mistake of buying Brown at NT.

Then you have ILB. Which I think might be able to help things.

So for me as a DC he has an iffy eye for talent. Which means he won't ever be great at it. The greats are instinctive there. Also his grasp of the back end looks like it isn't up to snuff, though maybe that changes if Williams settles things down and the safeties get unfucked.

The preseason would have helped him sort the starters but McVay is who he is there.

As of right now Shula looks like a friend hire who wasn't ready. But there is time for him to get more from the unit.

 

[Tano]

The preseason would have helped him sort the starters but McVay is who he is there.

This - Shula who has never been a DC needed the preseason to sort out his starters.

McVay kind of screwed him over by not playing the starters a little bit in the preseason and mix and match players as well.

Like how would Speights do with Reeder beside him or Rozeboom beside him.

In preseasons past, McVay had two DCs who who had prior experience as a DC.

The other one who didn't took 4games before his defense started to rock. Plus he had Donald too. Maybe Shula's will too after a half a year. (Will take longer without the Donald effect.)