Neil deGrasse Tyson SoFi stadium walk through

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SteveBrown

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Fair enough to this point, but I wasn't the one who attacked Tyson. Those aren't my words. I left all of that alone, except to say - not everyone subscribes to his theories, and don't assume his represents REAL SCIENCE. Science is about testing theories. There are plenty of great scientists that don't agree with him. And he is certainly a bully to those who disagree. Not impressed.

I have no quarrel with you, man. I also am not calling Tyson "not a scientist". Cheers
Critical thinking is (imo): taking what you know, and applyin some wisdom to it. I think to get where you got on your opinion on ol' Tyso means that you engaged in in CI; your eyes are open to the marketing.....really, Tyson is an AWESOME entertainer. Real science is applying what you say with experiments--of which Neil has never done...he only reports on others who have attempted, and not completed lol...and he mis-applies results from experiments like Moriarty (SP) from the late 1800s and early 1900s....he is too smart to be soooo wrong, lol. It is with intention that he mis-speaks. He ignores electro magnetism and hails gravity---being fed lines.
 

XXXIVwin

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Critical thinking is (imo): taking what you know, and applyin some wisdom to it. I think to get where you got on your opinion on ol' Tyso means that you engaged in in CI; your eyes are open to the marketing.....really, Tyson is an AWESOME entertainer. Real science is applying what you say with experiments--of which Neil has never done...he only reports on others who have attempted, and not completed lol...and he mis-applies results from experiments like Moriarty (SP) from the late 1800s and early 1900s....he is too smart to be soooo wrong, lol. It is with intention that he mis-speaks. He ignores electro magnetism and hails gravity---being fed lines.
Oh dear. Hey SteveBrown, will you acknowledge you’re a believer that the earth is flat? In case anyone else chimes in on this thread, they deserve to know this.

Again— EVIDENCE is important. You make several claims in your post (above), yet fail to provide any evidence to back up any of your claims. Among many other claims, you said that NDT “ignores electro magnetism.” Can you please back up this claim?
 

XXXIVwin

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I can ...short and sweet and great science from the early 1900s:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg96dC6ylTI

I asked for “any one verifiable scientific study that NDT has unfairly ridiculed.” You provided me with a video from the Flat Earth Society.

Sorry, but the pseudo-science of the Flat Earth folks is deserving of ridicule. Willful ignorance is dangerous.

I guess I should follow my own advice (to provide evidence for my claims), so here is a link to NDT de-bunking the Flat Earth claims. Ugh. Honestly, it sickens me that in 2019, anyone needs to be “convinced” of this, but here ya go.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hLPPE3_DVCw
 

XXXIVwin

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Alright guys, I’ll cut to the chase.

Here’s where the argument ends up.

Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

“Human activity has contributed to climate change.”

This is not an opinion. It is a verifiable fact. It has been proven by thousands of scientific studies.

How MUCH has human activity contributed to the problem? How much time do we have before the negative effects are irreversible? What should we do about it? These are all questions open to debate. But the FACT that human activity contributes to climate change is embraced by the overwhelming majority of scientists.

NDT is a champion of the scientific method because... well... if humans continue to ignore the facts of climate change, our quality of life is going to become severely awful, and we might not survive as a species. So yeah, the stakes are kinda high.

It boggles my mind that so many people think this idea is far fetched. It seems quite like common sense. Over the last hundred years or so...With all the billions of cars blowing out pollutants... and all the factories belching out gases... is it really so hard to accept that filling our atmosphere with pollution *might* be having a negative effect?

Three hundred years from now, people are going to look back at our generation of 2019, and wonder about which of us were smart enough to accept the scientific reality, and which of us were “whistling past the graveyard.”

People who embrace science can have an intelligent debate about how to fix the problem. “Science deniers” can’t even recognize reality in the first place.

Here’s a short video of NDT advocating for the acceptance of scientifically verifiable facts.

 
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Memento

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Three hundred years from now, people are going to look back at our generation of 2019, and wonder about which of us were smart enough to accept the scientific reality, and which of us were “whistling past the graveyard.”

With the way things are going, I have to question if humanity as we know it will be alive three-hundred years from now. With the polar ice caps melting and the weather being more extreme...well, I'm glad I won't be alive by that time.
 

Farr Be It

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I asked for “any one verifiable scientific study that NDT has unfairly ridiculed.” You provided me with a video from the Flat Earth Society.

Sorry, but the pseudo-science of the Flat Earth folks is deserving of ridicule. Willful ignorance is dangerous.

I guess I should follow my own advice (to provide evidence for my claims), so here is a link to NDT de-bunking the Flat Earth claims. Ugh. Honestly, it sickens me that in 2019, anyone needs to be “convinced” of this, but here ya go.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hLPPE3_DVCw

People have a life. I went to bed. You posted a video of the round earth. Something we both already believe. ????
Then you join Tyson in his distasteful arrogance and say anyone who does not believe this is “deserving of ridicule”.

When I get time I will post something, but this video was low hanging fruit, and not even something that is being challenged*

edit: I didn’t see Steve’s entries. I don’t agree with the flat earth theories, but leave the dude alone. Can’t you be a little nicer in your arguments? Argue your points and let them stand on their merit. You can even be humorous. But don’t be like NDT.

Going back to bed for a few hours.
 
Last edited:

coconut

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Alright guys, I’ll cut to the chase.

Here’s where the argument ends up.

Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

“Human activity has contributed to climate change.”

This is not an opinion. It is a verifiable fact. It has been proven by thousands of scientific studies.

How MUCH has human activity contributed to the problem? How much time do we have before the negative effects are irreversible? What should we do about it? These are all questions open to debate. But the FACT that human activity contributes to climate change is embraced by the overwhelming majority of scientists.

NDT is a champion of the scientific method because... well... if humans continue to ignore the facts of climate change, our quality of life is going to become severely awful, and we might not survive as a species. So yeah, the stakes are kinda high.

It boggles my mind that so many people think this idea is far fetched. It seems quite like common sense. Over the last hundred years or so...With all the billions of cars blowing out pollutants... and all the factories belching out gases... is it really so hard to accept that filling our atmosphere with pollution *might* be having a negative effect?

Three hundred years from now, people are going to look back at our generation of 2019, and wonder about which of us were smart enough to accept the scientific reality, and which of us were “whistling past the graveyard.”

People who embrace science can have an intelligent debate about how to fix the problem. “Science deniers” can’t even recognize reality in the first place.

Here’s a short video of NDT advocating for the acceptance of scientifically verifiable facts.

Time to learn the difference between a theory and a law. Entertaining thread.
 

XXXIVwin

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People have a life. I went to bed. You posted a video of the round earth. Something we both already believe. ????
Then you join Tyson in his distasteful arrogance and say anyone who does not believe this is “deserving of ridicule”.

When I get time I will post something, but this video was low hanging fruit, and not even something that is being challenged*

edit: I didn’t see Steve’s entries. I don’t agree with the flat earth theories, but leave the dude alone. Can’t you be a little nicer in your arguments? Argue your points and let them stand on their merit. You can even be humorous. But don’t be like NDT.

Going back to bed for a few hours.
Yes, you’re allowed to sleep, dude. I’m up late and stressed about other stuff so I’m posting away. You can take your time.

Regarding Flat Earth stuff... the word “ignorance” is interesting. On the one hand, it can mean a lack of awareness or knowledge. OTOH, it can also mean a DELIBERATE disregard of basic facts. It’s that second kind of ignorance that makes me... well... mad.

Deliberate ignorance, IMHO, is no laughing matter. It’s important shit. It’s not an occasion to be “nice.” Deliberate ignorance can have serious consequences. For example... if millions of people remain “science deniers” and willfully ignore the facts of climate change, then our planet will become close to uninhabitable and our species will be at risk. I’m not joking... I seriously think our whole species is headed for serious trouble, and a lot of it is because millions of people are willfully ignorant about the facts of science.

IMHO, willful ignorance of science is the single greatest threat to humanity’s survival. So yeah, maybe you could understand why some people get riled up about it.

SteveBrown can keep holding on to his Flat Earth theories and willfully ignore the facts which refute it, and that’s irritating. All on its own, maybe that’s not a big deal. But it reminds me of other similar cases where deliberately misguided beliefs can have devastating real-world consequences.

As for that hour and a half long creationism video... if there is something specific in there that you wish to defend, please point it out, but I’d rather not watch the whole darn thing.
 

Farr Be It

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As for that hour and a half long creationism video... if there is something specific in there that you wish to defend, please point it out, but I’d rather not watch the whole darn thing.

You could have taken the hour-and-a-half you spent writing that diatribe and watched the excellent video, detailing the evidence that the planets could not have possibly come into being via some random, pointless explosion that resulted in perfect order, and very specific and special composition of each planet.

These are things I’d like Tyson to address. The real science that disproves his tortured theories.
 

Farr Be It

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IMHO, willful ignorance of science is the single greatest threat to humanity’s survival
We can agree willful ignorance is not healthy. I completely disagree with all of your assertions though. Based on studying BOTH sides.

Beyond that it gets political. I need to disengage from this conversation based on forum rules. I wish you the best Ram brother.
 

JonRam99

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Jonathan
You could have taken the hour-and-a-half you spent writing that diatribe and watched the excellent video, detailing the evidence that the planets could not have possibly come into being via some random, pointless explosion that resulted in perfect order, and very specific and special composition of each planet.

These are things I’d like Tyson to address. The real science that disproves his tortured theories.
Thanks mods for moving this thread! it was getting pretty farr out....

Now that it's moved.... Ladies & Gentlemen, Farr Be It is not alone -- there are MANY scientists, NASA-level guys & gals, who are disputing both micro & macro evolution (evolution of life on earth & evolution of planets & galaxies), and paying the price for it. One recently said that "dark energy" was invented to explain how "dark matter" even exists, and both of them are necessary for the universe to even look like it does -- for galaxies to exist, dark matter has to exist, and dark energy has to exist to keep the dark matter from dissipating due to the laws of physics.... they summed it up by saying "we invented one tooth fairy to justify the existence of the other".
NdGT apparently (I didn't know who he was until this thread) attacks such scientists, and he is just the public face of the great bulk of the scientific community (universities, grant orgs, NGO's, GO's, etc. etc.) that intently persecutes anyone who tries to publicly explore "intelligent design" answers to the universe & the inexplicable existence of life. They unfairly lump them together with flat-earthers, label them "science deniers", etc. when it's the scientific establishment that routinely scuttles & buries any reports or data that challenge the scientific zietgeist.
One of the worst is the NOAA, which routinely provides falsified & extrapolated climate data to climate scientists, who in turn use said erroneous data to support alarmist proclamations of impending disaster to support political solutions that support globalist policies. Said theories are always presented as facts, when at the moment they are still theories based on shaky science and shakier data, and any who proffer any facts to challenge these climate theories are publicly attacked and ridiculed by the alarmed.
I have a PDF of one such scientist who challenges the extent of the impact of human energy production on the earth's climate - by his estimate, over the next decade or so our impact is .01 degrees C. Sure, there is an impact, but it is so negligible as to question why we are supporting political solutions such as "cap and trade", which gives virtual control of America's (and her allies) energy sector over to policy wonks, who will waste all its profit potential on "sequestration" of CO2 (which the enormous ocean already does quite nicely) and take the rest & hand it over to 3rd world socialist dictators who will say they'll use it to clean up their environment but pocket 90% of it. This is not science, this is POLITICS, and the fervent alarmist activity of politicians who support climate policies is alone enough to question its merit. You & I will pay more for taxes to punish our energy sins, and on top of that we'll pay a LOT more for energy as the extra climate policy compliance costs will be handed down to us, all so we can help a 3rd world dictator's son to buy that extra special edition lambo he feels he has to have, or that Learjet so he can give sasquatch-sized carbon footprint leaving rides to his politician friends to swanky environmental conferences.
Folks, despite all the "advances" in climate science we still have NO IDEA why the earth does what it does. NO IDEA why ice ages happened in the past. For all we know, we could pass every aspect of the "green new deal" and still see a mini (or even maxi) ice-age in the coming decade -- a recent report I saw said that as the ice melts, the ocean's ability to sequester CO2 increases, far exceeding our human CO2 generation. The climate's CO2 will drop, the "green house" lessens, and ice builds up to ice age levels. I saw this on a news website, sorry no link yet, but the ice build up in Antartica is exploding.
Marrying climate warming data with human CO2 generation is dangerous, as the temp increases were more likely due to the increased sun spot activity between the 60's and late 90's than anything (need supporting data? The polar ice caps were also melting on MARS). I say "were" because it's a scientific fact that the temps have been dropping since the 2000's, which led the scientific establishment to change their mantra from "global warming" to "climate change". Yet another clue that the policies they want to pass are highly suspect, and they have even stated that they want to pass all these laws with urgency before the mini-ice age comes.
I'm sorry for the rant, but I have many strong feelings about this issue. The blatant persecution of those who have sincere questions and just want the truth is disturbing. Truth is all we have, and is the foundation of any credible scientific activity. We MUST consider any valid data that contradicts our scientific models, theories, laws, etc. If I pick up a pen, and try to drop it, and it doesn't fall, then the law of gravity is no longer a law. Likewise if I see a report that questions the validity of current climate science, and observe intense political activity from politicians (right or left) to defend & support said questionable science, then I have the right to question it. Or if I hear a distinguished scientist question how galaxies form, and how our current models can't explain it, then I have the right to consider super-natural explanations.


I will agree with NdGT on one thing though.... there will be a bird poop apocalypse at SoFi.
Thanks to the poster who linked the article about bird problems at other stadiums, that was very helpful.

/rant
 

XXXIVwin

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You could have taken the hour-and-a-half you spent writing that diatribe and watched the excellent video, detailing the evidence that the planets could not have possibly come into being via some random, pointless explosion that resulted in perfect order, and very specific and special composition of each planet.

These are things I’d like Tyson to address. The real science that disproves his tortured theories.
Well, thanks in general for your effort to be restrained, though I have to say the word “diatribe” was not appreciated.

To be blunt, Creationism is in the same category as Flat Earth “theory.” I am sympathetic to differences re. religion, but “Creationism” involves the willful disregard of scientific FACTS. I could give you links to articles about reasonable Christians who have renounced cCreationism, but I would assume you’ve seen them already.

As you know, the Supreme Court of the USA has ruled that the teaching of Creationism in public schools is unconstitutional— specifically because of the renouncing of science facts.

And yes, I did end up skimming through several segments of the video. The speaker does indeed make many assertions regarding the FACTS of the composition of the planets. IMHO, it’s a simple question:

Either 99.5% of astronomers and physicists are right, based on their thousands upon thousands of scientific studies which all confirm the same conclusions regarding the composition of the planets in our solar system

OR

The 0.5% of “creationist scientists” are right, and all the other scientists are wrong.

Yes, I’m sure NDT would be happy to watch that hour and a half video, and I’m quite sure he would obliterate the false assumptions and inaccuracies and mistakes.

You and I agree that one side is “real science” and the other side is “tortured theories.” One of us is right, and the other is wrong. It’s not about opinions, or politics, or religion— it’s about FACTS. People are entitled to their opinions, but facts will remain true, regardless.

Farr, Kudos to you for your efforts to remain civil. I view it as a minor miracle anytime someone can change their mind about anything... and the only way that is ever possible is to have a civil discussion. I assume no minds will be changed in our debate, but at least efforts were made to keep things civil.
 

SteveBrown

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Steve
I asked for “any one verifiable scientific study that NDT has unfairly ridiculed.” You provided me with a video from the Flat Earth Society.

Sorry, but the pseudo-science of the Flat Earth folks is deserving of ridicule. Willful ignorance is dangerous.

I guess I should follow my own advice (to provide evidence for my claims), so here is a link to NDT de-bunking the Flat Earth claims. Ugh. Honestly, it sickens me that in 2019, anyone needs to be “convinced” of this, but here ya go.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hLPPE3_DVCw

I understand your POV.
NEil is an actor, and he can not prove scientists wrong in my book....I have watched him and he is a fake....and he doesn't debunk those scientists....and yes, I saw a good portion of that video. I am keeping it civil mon frere :) I am sure you are much smarter than me, so we will leave it at that :)
 

Farr Be It

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Thanks mods for moving this thread! it was getting pretty farr out....

Now that it's moved.... Ladies & Gentlemen, Farr Be It is not alone -- there are MANY scientists, NASA-level guys & gals, who are disputing both micro & macro evolution (evolution of life on earth & evolution of planets & galaxies), and paying the price for it. One recently said that "dark energy" was invented to explain how "dark matter" even exists, and both of them are necessary for the universe to even look like it does -- for galaxies to exist, dark matter has to exist, and dark energy has to exist to keep the dark matter from dissipating due to the laws of physics.... they summed it up by saying "we invented one tooth fairy to justify the existence of the other".
NdGT apparently (I didn't know who he was until this thread) attacks such scientists, and he is just the public face of the great bulk of the scientific community (universities, grant orgs, NGO's, GO's, etc. etc.) that intently persecutes anyone who tries to publicly explore "intelligent design" answers to the universe & the inexplicable existence of life. They unfairly lump them together with flat-earthers, label them "science deniers", etc. when it's the scientific establishment that routinely scuttles & buries any reports or data that challenge the scientific zietgeist.
One of the worst is the NOAA, which routinely provides falsified & extrapolated climate data to climate scientists, who in turn use said erroneous data to support alarmist proclamations of impending disaster to support political solutions that support globalist policies. Said theories are always presented as facts, when at the moment they are still theories based on shaky science and shakier data, and any who proffer any facts to challenge these climate theories are publicly attacked and ridiculed by the alarmed.
I have a PDF of one such scientist who challenges the extent of the impact of human energy production on the earth's climate - by his estimate, over the next decade or so our impact is .01 degrees C. Sure, there is an impact, but it is so negligible as to question why we are supporting political solutions such as "cap and trade", which gives virtual control of America's (and her allies) energy sector over to policy wonks, who will waste all its profit potential on "sequestration" of CO2 (which the enormous ocean already does quite nicely) and take the rest & hand it over to 3rd world socialist dictators who will say they'll use it to clean up their environment but pocket 90% of it. This is not science, this is POLITICS, and the fervent alarmist activity of politicians who support climate policies is alone enough to question its merit. You & I will pay more for taxes to punish our energy sins, and on top of that we'll pay a LOT more for energy as the extra climate policy compliance costs will be handed down to us, all so we can help a 3rd world dictator's son to buy that extra special edition lambo he feels he has to have, or that Learjet so he can give sasquatch-sized carbon footprint leaving rides to his politician friends to swanky environmental conferences.
Folks, despite all the "advances" in climate science we still have NO IDEA why the earth does what it does. NO IDEA why ice ages happened in the past. For all we know, we could pass every aspect of the "green new deal" and still see a mini (or even maxi) ice-age in the coming decade -- a recent report I saw said that as the ice melts, the ocean's ability to sequester CO2 increases, far exceeding our human CO2 generation. The climate's CO2 will drop, the "green house" lessens, and ice builds up to ice age levels. I saw this on a news website, sorry no link yet, but the ice build up in Antartica is exploding.
Marrying climate warming data with human CO2 generation is dangerous, as the temp increases were more likely due to the increased sun spot activity between the 60's and late 90's than anything (need supporting data? The polar ice caps were also melting on MARS). I say "were" because it's a scientific fact that the temps have been dropping since the 2000's, which led the scientific establishment to change their mantra from "global warming" to "climate change". Yet another clue that the policies they want to pass are highly suspect, and they have even stated that they want to pass all these laws with urgency before the mini-ice age comes.
I'm sorry for the rant, but I have many strong feelings about this issue. The blatant persecution of those who have sincere questions and just want the truth is disturbing. Truth is all we have, and is the foundation of any credible scientific activity. We MUST consider any valid data that contradicts our scientific models, theories, laws, etc. If I pick up a pen, and try to drop it, and it doesn't fall, then the law of gravity is no longer a law. Likewise if I see a report that questions the validity of current climate science, and observe intense political activity from politicians (right or left) to defend & support said questionable science, then I have the right to question it. Or if I hear a distinguished scientist question how galaxies form, and how our current models can't explain it, then I have the right to consider super-natural explanations.


I will agree with NdGT on one thing though.... there will be a bird poop apocalypse at SoFi.
Thanks to the poster who linked the article about bird problems at other stadiums, that was very helpful.

/rant
Man, thank you so much for that concise delivery of EXACTLY what is happening.

The thing is, I don’t advocate shutting anybody down. Debate is good! But it is the establishment that bully, and intimidate (I choose not to be intimidated) and alter data. And say, “The debate is over! It is time to confiscate the fruits of your labor, and take your liberty in order to save the world! We only have 11 years!” Including NOAA. Sad. And Tyson is very much the face of this movement.
 

XXXIVwin

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If I pick up a pen, and try to drop it, and it doesn't fall, then the law of gravity is no longer a law.

This is the crux of what’s wrong with your reasoning.

Gravity will still exist whether you wish to “believe” in it or not.

And yes, you have the “right” to believe in “Super-natural explanations.”

But facts will remain true regardless.

Even if 99% of climate scientists come up with the same conclusions, you have the “right” to say, “it’s all fake, the data was rigged, it’s all a big conspiracy.”

Rant away.
 

XXXIVwin

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One request...

Several posters on this thread have claimed that NDT is a “bully” who “intimidates” and “attacks other scientists.” Yet no one has ever provided a link to NDT doing this.

Someone, anyone... please provide a link to NDT “unfairly attacking” any science or theory?
 

Rynie

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He claims to be a scientist....he is just an actor. NO 'real' scientist has time for this. HE is a professional actor, and all his 'scientist' lines are written for him....I am sure I could be wrong, but wow....I don't believe anything about him
You know he's an Astrophysicist with a doctorate, right? Of course, you didnt.
 
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