My rant that I'm not going to debate or comment on.

[Alan]

There goes the neighborhood.

 

[MrMotes]

I question some play calling (tavon running power dives up the gut) but u can do that with any team. Have u guys forgot about that horrid offense we had when Sam was a rookie... I forget the OCs name. Dinking and dunking to just stall in the red zone.... or better yet EVERY 3rd down no matter the distance we run a shotgun draw... I recall a few games where the game was on the line and we were down by less than 7 in the 4th qtr and it's 3rd and 10+ and we run a f@cking shotgun draw!! U guys wanna relive that? I sure as he'll dont

I welcome Shotty and his willingness to be aggressive and throw the ball more than 5 yds down field. We don't need an Oc we need better qb play and line play. We will be ok

Thinking back to that pitiful shurmer offence. I also remember playing the bears and it was 3rd and I forgot, but I knew, just like everyone including the bears we were running a shotgun draw and we did. The put the camera on love Smith and he was laughing.. I bet he was laughing at that play... I will never forget.. my blood is boiling now thinking about it uuuggghhh

Nobody's letting Shurmur call plays or design an offense anymore. I say there's a lesson in that somewhere...

 

[Boffo97]

I am kind of wondering, hopefully without opening another can of worms, are the rules here against bashing Rams members applicable to Schottenheimer and other people considered acceptable targets as well?

I've noted that, in practice at least and likely in writing as well, they no longer apply to FORMER players/coaches/other of the Rams.

Not trying to start trouble, just trying to increase personal understanding.

 

[-X-]

I am kind of wondering, hopefully without opening another can of worms, are the rules here against bashing Rams members applicable to Schottenheimer and other people considered acceptable targets as well?

I've noted that, in practice at least and likely in writing as well, they no longer apply to FORMER players/coaches/other of the Rams.

Not trying to start trouble, just trying to increase personal understanding.

I don't know that it's a steadfast rule, because "bash" is a subjective term. I would hope that everyone is aware of the mission statement around here; and while I can't speak for CGI, I know his views are in alignment with how this board's been run for nearly 5 years now. Many of us come from other boards where it was just exhausting to read about how this guy sucks, and that guy sucks, and fire this guy, and cut that guy were/are the topic(s) dejour. So for anyone to come on here and do the same smacks of hypocrisy.

We all know what a shitty and/or antagonistic comment looks like. Just don't do that.

 

[ramsince62]

I'm just putting it out there. Tired of the Schotty bashing. We don't have any idea if execution was the problem more than the play-calling last night. There were instances where receivers were wide open and never even got a look. There were instances where one block would have freed a big run, and for all we know there were instances where checking out of a play would have been the right thing to do, and was the wrong thing to do.

Sometimes you just get beat by a good defense. How does a team like the Raiders go in and beat up K.C., and SF and then lay a goose egg to the Rams? Is it because Greg Olson is a bad offensive coordinator (we know that's not the case), or is it because the Rams' defense got it the hell done? He doesn't have a ton to work with over there either, but I'm sure it's all his fault too. Everybody seems to love Darrell Bevell, but why couldn't he make the adjustments against us when we put the smack down on the Seahawks? Is he a crappy coach then, and a great one when they win?

Answer: Yes, according to conventional wisdom.

Getting kinda tired of all the (pick a play) complaints about the offense that result in a complete bashing of the coordinator and a call for his termination. How many coordinators can trot out a has-been and a never-was at QB (and I say that most affectionately) without their top receiver, with a rookie RB and LT, against great defenses, and pull out a win? That's commonplace? The hell was wrong with Adam Gase when the Broncos came to town? 5th ranked scoring offense in the league, and they only score once? Was it his stupid idea to draw up plays that kept them out of our endzone? Is it also Schotty's fault when they take enormous leads in a game and end up losing? Do we even know how much influence Fisher has over his scheme when they get those leads? Anyone ever hear anything about that? No. Nor have I. So it's kind of presumptuous to say it's Schotty's fault that they don't make adjustments. For all you know, he's being told to rein it in.

Easy enough to look around the league, see a big score on a scoreboard and say that's how it's done, and we should be doing the same. He freaking tried everything last night. Sweeps, bubble screens, zone busters, pitches, draws, posts, hooks, slants, picks, 9's, and nothing worked because the O-line didn't hold up or open holes, and the QB didn't see the pressure or the open receivers much of the time. And that's not even entirely THEIR fault. Did you see all the stunts and blitzes drawn up that typically work for us when we use them too? It was a defensive battle that we probably win half the time if the same exact game is played 10 times in a row. We just came out on the wrong end of this one. Arians isn't going to call his offensive game plan much different when they play a weaker team and are able to score, and neither will we. Plans work when execution is on point. Plans don't when execution isn't. The team that executes better during a game typically wins. That's just (IMO) all there is to it.


/rant.

I'm just putting it out there. Tired of the Schotty bashing. We don't have any idea if execution was the problem more than the play-calling last night. There were instances where receivers were wide open and never even got a look. There were instances where one block would have freed a big run, and for all we know there were instances where checking out of a play would have been the right thing to do, and was the wrong thing to do.

Sometimes you just get beat by a good defense. How does a team like the Raiders go in and beat up K.C., and SF and then lay a goose egg to the Rams? Is it because Greg Olson is a bad offensive coordinator (we know that's not the case), or is it because the Rams' defense got it the hell done? He doesn't have a ton to work with over there either, but I'm sure it's all his fault too. Everybody seems to love Darrell Bevell, but why couldn't he make the adjustments against us when we put the smack down on the Seahawks? Is he a crappy coach then, and a great one when they win?

Answer: Yes, according to conventional wisdom.

Getting kinda tired of all the (pick a play) complaints about the offense that result in a complete bashing of the coordinator and a call for his termination. How many coordinators can trot out a has-been and a never-was at QB (and I say that most affectionately) without their top receiver, with a rookie RB and LT, against great defenses, and pull out a win? That's commonplace? The hell was wrong with Adam Gase when the Broncos came to town? 5th ranked scoring offense in the league, and they only score once? Was it his stupid idea to draw up plays that kept them out of our endzone? Is it also Schotty's fault when they take enormous leads in a game and end up losing? Do we even know how much influence Fisher has over his scheme when they get those leads? Anyone ever hear anything about that? No. Nor have I. So it's kind of presumptuous to say it's Schotty's fault that they don't make adjustments. For all you know, he's being told to rein it in.

Easy enough to look around the league, see a big score on a scoreboard and say that's how it's done, and we should be doing the same. He freaking tried everything last night. Sweeps, bubble screens, zone busters, pitches, draws, posts, hooks, slants, picks, 9's, and nothing worked because the O-line didn't hold up or open holes, and the QB didn't see the pressure or the open receivers much of the time. And that's not even entirely THEIR fault. Did you see all the stunts and blitzes drawn up that typically work for us when we use them too? It was a defensive battle that we probably win half the time if the same exact game is played 10 times in a row. We just came out on the wrong end of this one. Arians isn't going to call his offensive game plan much different when they play a weaker team and are able to score, and neither will we. Plans work when execution is on point. Plans don't when execution isn't. The team that executes better during a game typically wins. That's just (IMO) all there is to it.


/rant.

Happy you said it, I just wasn't in the mood to do it myself. Personally, I consider AZ an upper 2nd tier team that's playing above the sum of their parts. Whether it coaching or pixy dust it matters not, sometimes a team becomes Cinderella like, until it doesn't...good for them. Anyway, based upon the previous 4 games, I had hopes that despite injuries, the (Rams) might be poised enough to move into the 2nd tier and even possibly (gasp) dare I suggest it, the upper ranges of tier 2. But alas AZ brought them back to reality and yes, our Rams were simply outplayed by a sterling smothering defense while failing to execute an effective offensive response and that's a fact.

The Rams have proven themselves capable of beating up on tier 3 teams, but they're not yet ready to challenge the upper levels on a "consistent" basis....at least not this season. Like it or not, this game represented a sort of capstone for the season. Finally, I look forward to the time when we finish with something other than a 7-9 record or a variation i.e., 7-8-1.

 

[Jumava1968]

Some of the calls that our OC makes are questionable to say the least.And because of that he makes himself an easy target.Why wouldn't he call more sweeps,or misdirection calls instead of going right into the teeth of a top ranked running D. So while I do think the OL lost us the game the playcalling could have been better.

 

[Ramatik]

I do think X brings up some good points, some fair points. But my issues with Schotty go beyond games where he had a backup QB. IMO too many of us are forgetting about games like last year's debacle vs Dallas, when we had Bradford at QB.

Good point. Although, I saw a really bad team in that game. Everyone on the offense had a bad game. The line and recvrs were atrocious!

He's not a good teacher. Martz installed his enormous collection of plays and formations in one camp and had those guys executing it brilliantly right off the bat to include a rookie starting WR Holt and 2nd year guy in Hakim. We tiptoe around the issue of firing Schotty as if there's nobody else who runs that offense. Or like firing him means nobody could possibly install an offense in one season. Neither of those things are true.

This one was kind of funny. Martz had Marshall Faulk, by all accounts, a coach on the field. He had a quarterback who'd cut his teeth in the minors and he had Isaac Bruce who had already been to many Pro Bowls. And O Pace on the line. Along with Timmerman and a few other Vets. Yeah, I don't know about that teaching stuff. Especially since wherever he went after that, he was never able to teach another offense to be that good ever again.

His play calling is not good. This goes back to other things, certainly, I get that. But defenses too often key on what he's doing and know what's coming given down/distance/formation and that's bad.

Sometimes I am confounded. When I think he should run, he passes. Of course, this really stands out in my mind when it doesn't work. But is that a part of predictability?

People who defend him list his QBs, which has some validity. But it's also the responsibility of the coordinator to develop the QB by putting them into position to win, gain confidence, learn a deep level of understanding of offensive concepts, etc. If, for example, Sanchez came into the league with Green Bay, do we think he would have been as bad? I don't know, we can't answer that, but the reality is that the coaching and coordinators make a difference. Bradford's incremental development despite a high level of talent and dedication to his craft is telling, to me at least.

Bradford with this next year with Shotty was looking pretty darned good this year before the injury. We really don't know what could have happened with this team starting to play some ball at recvr and running game. I think anyone that thinks there were recvrs that were playing some ball is... well... offensive coordinator was not the problem.

Folks defended our DC last year. But right now we are seeing the difference between a JAG coordinator and a DC who is at the top of his craft. And that, IMO, should be the goal for any franchise whose goal is to win it all. So personally, I'm done with Schotty and I pray Fish is too. We'll see.

I don't understand the complaining here. I mean, if we had accepted the D last year, we'd still have Walton?

I didn't know we had that much power!

Seriously, Fisher saw something in Long and JL even though there were plenty of computer geniuses on the net that wanted them gone. Heck, there were many that were calling for GW's head earlier this year! Remember that? He wanted to keep the receivers we had. Instead of breaking the bank in free agency or trading away the future in the draft. People said he was stupid and didn't know what he was doing. I see things coming together. I don't think Fisher is God or all knowing. But he's putting together a pretty solid program and I like what he's doing so far.

You or anybody else complaining about it multiple times a day is probably not going to change his mind. (and I don't mean specifically you)

 

[Ramatik]

Some of the calls that our OC makes are questionable to say the least.And because of that he makes himself an easy target.Why wouldn't he call more sweeps,or misdirection calls instead of going right into the teeth of a top ranked running D. So while I do think the OL lost us the game the playcalling could have been better.

Very well said. Yeah, even though I don't want to fire the guy, he surely didn't impress me Thursday night.

I was pretty happy with the D though.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

So what you are saying is:

Oh the irony for Shotty bashers to post this

 

[Rabid Ram]

Nah, that's not the case. I'm just stating my opinion and staying out of the debate. Let me make this perfectly clear, because it's a universal truth. Everyone who has an opinion feels theirs is the correct one, so I'm no different than the next shlub who comes in and says Schotty is awful and he's the reason for our offensive woes. And now I'm out of my own thread again. Just wanted to clear up that misunderstanding. Y'all can debate the virtues of Schotty all you want.

I already know I'm right, so there's no need for me to engage.

Sweet i win i got you to comment on a thread you said you wouldnt

 

[Ramatik]

Nobody's letting Shurmur call plays or design an offense anymore. I say there's a lesson in that somewhere...

Good point.
Maybe that will be the case when Shotty leaves here.

Although, up to this point, he keeps getting jobs.

I know, daddy can only take you so far.

 

[DR RAM]

Good point.
Maybe that will be the case when Shotty leaves here.

Although, up to this point, he keeps getting jobs.

I know, daddy can only take you so far.

He may not call the plays, but he's the OC for the Eagle's, currently.

 

[Mojo Ram]

He may not call the plays, but he's the OC for the Eagle's, currently.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Oh the irony for Shotty bashers to post this

Perhaps, because I don't view myself as a basher.

 

[Pancake]

There are reasons for every single win or loss. It's not just luck and magic happening out there. It's either going to come back to the coaching or the execution on the field. People have different views.

My question at the moment is why is saying the players didn't execute over and over again acceptable around here but blaming the OC is a no no? I think I've read 50 times in the last day that Wells needs to be replaced and rightfully so I might add. I'm not complaining. I just find it a little curious why one seems to be ok and the other is a big offense.

 

[Boffo97]

There are reasons for every single win or loss. It's not just luck and magic happening out there. It's either going to come back to the coaching or the execution on the field. People have different views.

My question at the moment is why is saying the players didn't execute over and over again acceptable around here but blaming the OC is a no no? I think I've read 50 times in the last day that Wells needs to be replaced and rightfully so I might add. I'm not complaining. I just find it a little curious why one seems to be ok and the other is a big offense.

I would say there's three main differences:

1. In a lot of cases, it really seems that Schotty is the first target of criticism when anything is wrong with the offense, then goes largely unmentioned when the offense is doing well. It's a team sport. Everyone should be to blame, and everyone should get the credit.

2. As -X- stated, it's really hard to tell whether the problem on a given play is execution or coaching. And just because a play is the "safe" and predictable one doesn't mean that not calling it is bad coaching.

3. I'm not sure if the criticism of Wells has ever gone beyond the criticism. As just one example, "Schotty is an idiot" and "Fuck Schotty" are both pretty common, especially in the Game Day Threads.

 

[cgsuddeath]

Good point. Although, I saw a really bad team in that game. Everyone on the offense had a bad game. The line and recvrs were atrocious!



This one was kind of funny. Martz had Marshall Faulk, by all accounts, a coach on the field. He had a quarterback who'd cut his teeth in the minors and he had Isaac Bruce who had already been to many Pro Bowls. And O Pace on the line. Along with Timmerman and a few other Vets. Yeah, I don't know about that teaching stuff. Especially since wherever he went after that, he was never able to teach another offense to be that good ever again.



Sometimes I am confounded. When I think he should run, he passes. Of course, this really stands out in my mind when it doesn't work. But is that a part of predictability?



Bradford with this next year with Shotty was looking pretty darned good this year before the injury. We really don't know what could have happened with this team starting to play some ball at recvr and running game. I think anyone that thinks there were recvrs that were playing some ball is... well... offensive coordinator was not the problem.



I don't understand the complaining here. I mean, if we had accepted the D last year, we'd still have Walton?

I didn't know we had that much power!

Seriously, Fisher saw something in Long and JL even though there were plenty of computer geniuses on the net that wanted them gone. Heck, there were many that were calling for GW's head earlier this year! Remember that? He wanted to keep the receivers we had. Instead of breaking the bank in free agency or trading away the future in the draft. People said he was stupid and didn't know what he was doing. I see things coming together. I don't think Fisher is God or all knowing. But he's putting together a pretty solid program and I like what he's doing so far.

You or anybody else complaining about it multiple times a day is probably not going to change his mind. (and I don't mean specifically you)

This by far was very well written.ThankS!!!

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Perhaps, because I don't view myself as a basher.

Your're right, shoulda inserted "critic" instead, we've already gone down this road before regarding the OC, no need resetting them.

My point was Mora's rant was in direct reference to " media critics" who basically were on the outside looking in providing their takes with little regard as to what the overall game planning is all about. (they could care less, they have all the answers) Sorta like us here.

Here's the thing, I don't think Jeff Fisher is going to fire Marty's son anytime soon, you may as well come to peace with that, he's (JF) not about flashy quick strike offenses, "shirley" you know it's true. Does he (Shotty) sometimes call head scratching plays at the most inopportune times? (&%$#@ yeah) Perhaps he does get too clever for his own good, but at the end of the day it's all about defense and ball control, the Rams appeared to be improving and somehow could have been a little guilty of reading their own press clippings praising their recent run.

And you can bet the Cards were less than happy being 6 pt dogs sitting at 10-3 vs a 6-7 team, I shoulda seen it coming but didn't.

1) QB - Lost
2) Projected Number O lineman - Lost (the residual effect was introducing Joseph to the starting lineup, we all know how that's worked out.
3) Quick - Lost (again, a residual effect thing)
4) RG - Total Joke who makes Frosty Freaking Rucker JJ Watts better on National TV...Utter disaster
5) C - Brainy player with eroded skill set - Liability any way you view him - Joke
6) RT- Having major issues lately - Jury still out far as I'm concerend.
7) Back-up QB who was Clearly rattled by the end of the 1st qtr (I knew we were in trouble right around then)

Tough gig for any OC to overcome.

 

[Angry Ram]

Nice straw man argument there Angry Ram, I never "claimed" any of what you posted. It's one thing if its a statistical anomaly but we have NINE years of evidence and that evidence is damning.....very damning. I'm looking purely at numbers, and its not like his offense have even been "great" even once....his best years have been just above average.

1. GB
2. Indy
3. NE
4. Philly
5. Denver
6. Pittsburgh

There's a reason those teams above with good offenses (even with you saying Sanchez is bad.....still way better than in NY....)are all considered to be SB contenders.

Hahaha, good use of a cliche. You said, and I quote "It's hilarious how blind some people are."

Which, again, is ironic because after every loss it's directly attributed to the OC.

Also, it's downright insulting to say someone is "blind" or has "blue and gold colored" blinders on simply b/c they don't feel the OC is a problem. Or in my case, refuse to always take the "blame the OC" route.

We're never going to agree here, so much like X, I'll just resort to not commenting from here on.

 

[reggae]

I'm just putting it out there. Tired of the Schotty bashing. We don't have any idea if execution was the problem more than the play-calling last night. There were instances where receivers were wide open and never even got a look. There were instances where one block would have freed a big run, and for all we know there were instances where checking out of a play would have been the right thing to do, and was the wrong thing to do.

Sometimes you just get beat by a good defense. How does a team like the Raiders go in and beat up K.C., and SF and then lay a goose egg to the Rams? Is it because Greg Olson is a bad offensive coordinator (we know that's not the case), or is it because the Rams' defense got it the hell done? He doesn't have a ton to work with over there either, but I'm sure it's all his fault too. Everybody seems to love Darrell Bevell, but why couldn't he make the adjustments against us when we put the smack down on the Seahawks? Is he a crappy coach then, and a great one when they win?

Answer: Yes, according to conventional wisdom.

Getting kinda tired of all the (pick a play) complaints about the offense that result in a complete bashing of the coordinator and a call for his termination. How many coordinators can trot out a has-been and a never-was at QB (and I say that most affectionately) without their top receiver, with a rookie RB and LT, against great defenses, and pull out a win? That's commonplace? The hell was wrong with Adam Gase when the Broncos came to town? 5th ranked scoring offense in the league, and they only score once? Was it his stupid idea to draw up plays that kept them out of our endzone? Is it also Schotty's fault when they take enormous leads in a game and end up losing? Do we even know how much influence Fisher has over his scheme when they get those leads? Anyone ever hear anything about that? No. Nor have I. So it's kind of presumptuous to say it's Schotty's fault that they don't make adjustments. For all you know, he's being told to rein it in.

Easy enough to look around the league, see a big score on a scoreboard and say that's how it's done, and we should be doing the same. He freaking tried everything last night. Sweeps, bubble screens, zone busters, pitches, draws, posts, hooks, slants, picks, 9's, and nothing worked because the O-line didn't hold up or open holes, and the QB didn't see the pressure or the open receivers much of the time. And that's not even entirely THEIR fault. Did you see all the stunts and blitzes drawn up that typically work for us when we use them too? It was a defensive battle that we probably win half the time if the same exact game is played 10 times in a row. We just came out on the wrong end of this one. Arians isn't going to call his offensive game plan much different when they play a weaker team and are able to score, and neither will we. Plans work when execution is on point. Plans don't when execution isn't. The team that executes better during a game typically wins. That's just (IMO) all there is to it.


/rant.

I'm all for an all OL draft. That won't happen. but, it would be hard to argue against.