My rant that I'm not going to debate or comment on.

[WvuIN02]

Nice straw man argument there Angry Ram, I never "claimed" any of what you posted. It's one thing if its a statistical anomaly but we have NINE years of evidence and that evidence is damning.....very damning. I'm looking purely at numbers, and its not like his offense have even been "great" even once....his best years have been just above average.

1. GB
2. Indy
3. NE
4. Philly
5. Denver
6. Pittsburgh

There's a reason those teams above with good offenses (even with you saying Sanchez is bad.....still way better than in NY....)are all considered to be SB contenders.

 

[dhaab]

I would never blame any performance completely on a coach or coordinator. I think the offensive line being average at best is the biggest reason this team couldn't move the ball against the Cardinals. Having said that, I will say that the Cardinals were blitzing at least one linebacker almost the entire game, yet Schottenheimer called only one screen pass the entire game. And that screen pass play to Bennie Cunningham in the 1st drive of the game, resulted in a very nice 20 yard gain. Why not call a play that worked well more than once in a game where you are being blitzed regularly??

 

[Dodgersrf]

X you know i respect you however i find this post very self righteous. It feels as though you are saying those of us who dont lile shotty have no reason to yours is the only opinion and if we do have a difference of opinion as stated in the title you will not even regard it with a response. Not your best post my friend

I doubt it would be an issue if there was only an occasional thread.
However, there seems to be multiple threads a week regarding the canning of Shotty.
For me, it's become beyond petty and tiresome.

 

[LesBaker]

Well I don't think he is anything but average myself. Is he a problem? I dunno but I don't see him as a big part of the solution to fix the O either.

 

[LesBaker]

I would never blame any performance completely on a coach or coordinator. I think the offensive line being average at best is the biggest reason this team couldn't move the ball against the Cardinals. Having said that, I will say that the Cardinals were blitzing at least one linebacker almost the entire game, yet Schottenheimer called only one screen pass the entire game. And that screen pass play to Bennie Cunningham in the 1st drive of the game, resulted in a very nice 20 yard gain. Why not call a play that worked well more than once in a game where you are being blitzed regularly??

Can you remember a draw play? I can't. So add that to the list of "why didn't he............" because they way there were coming one or two big gashing gains from Mason woulda slowed them down a little.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm just putting it out there. Tired of the Schotty bashing. We don't have any idea if execution was the problem more than the play-calling last night. There were instances where receivers were wide open and never even got a look. There were instances where one block would have freed a big run, and for all we know there were instances where checking out of a play would have been the right thing to do, and was the wrong thing to do.

Sometimes you just get beat by a good defense. How does a team like the Raiders go in and beat up K.C., and SF and then lay a goose egg to the Rams? Is it because Greg Olson is a bad offensive coordinator (we know that's not the case), or is it because the Rams' defense got it the hell done? He doesn't have a ton to work with over there either, but I'm sure it's all his fault too. Everybody seems to love Darrell Bevell, but why couldn't he make the adjustments against us when we put the smack down on the Seahawks? Is he a crappy coach then, and a great one when they win?

Answer: Yes, according to conventional wisdom.

Getting kinda tired of all the (pick a play) complaints about the offense that result in a complete bashing of the coordinator and a call for his termination. How many coordinators can trot out a has-been and a never-was at QB (and I say that most affectionately) without their top receiver, with a rookie RB and LT, against great defenses, and pull out a win? That's commonplace? The hell was wrong with Adam Gase when the Broncos came to town? 5th ranked scoring offense in the league, and they only score once? Was it his stupid idea to draw up plays that kept them out of our endzone? Is it also Schotty's fault when they take enormous leads in a game and end up losing? Do we even know how much influence Fisher has over his scheme when they get those leads? Anyone ever hear anything about that? No. Nor have I. So it's kind of presumptuous to say it's Schotty's fault that they don't make adjustments. For all you know, he's being told to rein it in.

Easy enough to look around the league, see a big score on a scoreboard and say that's how it's done, and we should be doing the same. He freaking tried everything last night. Sweeps, bubble screens, zone busters, pitches, draws, posts, hooks, slants, picks, 9's, and nothing worked because the O-line didn't hold up or open holes, and the QB didn't see the pressure or the open receivers much of the time. And that's not even entirely THEIR fault. Did you see all the stunts and blitzes drawn up that typically work for us when we use them too? It was a defensive battle that we probably win half the time if the same exact game is played 10 times in a row. We just came out on the wrong end of this one. Arians isn't going to call his offensive game plan much different when they play a weaker team and are able to score, and neither will we. Plans work when execution is on point. Plans don't when execution isn't. The team that executes better during a game typically wins. That's just (IMO) all there is to it.


/rant.

The only thing I will concede is that we don't know how involved Fisher is in the offensive game planning. He is usually conservative with his offensive approach and maybe has more of a hand in the play calling than we know. Either way I cannot say it is good. We have all heard the myriad reasons why.

 

[dhaab]

Can you remember a draw play? I can't. So add that to the list of "why didn't he............" because they way there were coming one or two big gashing gains from Mason woulda slowed them down a little.

I agree, but in Schotty's defense, our interior line is so bad that a draw play doesn't seem like the right kind of play. But yes, draw plays are usually good against certain blitz packages.

 

[LesBaker]

I agree, but in Schotty's defense, our interior line is so bad that a draw play doesn't seem like the right kind of play. But yes, draw plays are usually good against certain blitz packages.

Also how about trying a lead blocker ala Harkules........

 

[iced]

One thing that's pretty apparent to me is that this team still lacks a quality go to receiver.. Very little separation in man to man coverage - something arizona loves to run.

This team drafted to beat the teams in the division by stopping the run and pressuring the passer right? Now its time to get a recevier who can actually beat Richard Sherman, Cromartie, and Peterson.

Spare me the rookies don't have an act impact either - When the Giants went to Seattle, Beckham posted a 7 catch, 108 yard day... SF? 6 for 93.

Gotta have talent to get it done.

This offense will make some huge strides next year if we can fix the line and get a stud guy. I love Quick's development and his potential moving forward - that being said, he'd flourish even more with someone across from him

 

[V3]

I get the argument about players not executing but you don't necessarily have to see great execution from all the players to know if the play call was good or not(not on every play, at least), especially when Schotty has a track record as long as his. This isn't anything new with him. Many times you can see that a play was doomed from the start because the defense has been stopping it all game long. This gets back to in-game adjustments. Good coaches/assistants are able to make adjustments quickly, throughout the game. I simply don't see that from him. He's very good at scripting out the first couple drives but once the defense knows what's working, they adjust and then the offense starts to slow down and you don't see any response from Schotty.

Last night, the first couple drives weren't that bad. They may not have been TD's but they were at least moving the ball. You could see the defense then start trying different things to counter and that was mainly just blitzing like crazy because our O-line and QB couldn't handle it. IMO, it's then up to the OC to call plays that are designed to counter all those blitzes. I didn't see that at all. Many of the players didn't execute but many times in the NFL, you're going to have to deal with the fact that the other team has better players and you're going to have to design schemes to put your lesser players in the best position to succeed. That's what Schotty is failing at, IMO. It wasn't all on him but he's far from innocent in this. He's, at best, a mediocre OC and I feel this team needs and deserves better.

 

[Philly5]

When any team scores 6 points and looks rather inept doing so, many fans discussing the game will criticize the OC. The nature of calling plays in the NFL makes everyone a hindsight expert.

 

[mr.stlouis]

So what you are saying is:

That was perfect! I love that guy lol

 

[RamzFanz]

The most bizarre thing about Schotty is, he gets it. There's no doubt. He get's offenses and how to beat defenses. He gets how to draw up good plays. He gets how to exploit unique skills like TA. He just doesn't do it.

Honestly I think it just looks like bashing because he get criticized just about every game, win or lose, because his play calling is just that bizarre.

It's not just the fans either. It's just about any article written about him or mention of him as Rams OC.

I just rewatched the game and he drew up plays that worked and worked well and never used them or anything like them again. Or twice in a quarter for success and then 3 quarters without.

Third down, a yard to go for a must have TD in an extremely rare red zone visit this game, a score on the line when we need two, and he calls another pass play that fails. What? With what that pass rush and coverage has been doing all day on a long field? Did SD not teach us anything?

WHO HERE doesn't trust Bam Bam for a yard more than Hill against that pass rush and excellent coverage on a short field?!?

I call him Mr' Contrarian. It's like he only wants to call a play they won't expect without filtering it through success rate or negative consequences for failure.

There was a lot of criticism to go around. Hill's worst game, receivers running the wrong routes, dropped balls, dropped INTs, terrible O-line play, AND the worst play calling I've seen from Schotty yet. With everything that went wrong, I'm 100% sure a good OC play caller wins that game. So does a top QB. So does a top O-line. So does a star RB. There were LOTS of ways to win, and Schotty was just one of them.

 

[iced]

When any team scores 6 points and looks rather inept doing so, many fans discussing the game will criticize the OC. The nature of calling plays in the NFL makes everyone a hindsight expert.

so what about the fans that are pissed about the play call before its executed?

I still don't think the Rams should have used PA on that 3rd and 1 - I dont know how many times I've seen Schotty run that play in the red zone and throughout the game.

But if fans can pick up on tendencies - then you know dam well a good rival is gonna be more than ready for it.

And I can't tell you how many times this season I've called the play correctly prior to snap (like Playaction Slot-corner route, Run up the middle, PA bootleg into w/TE escaping into the flat) - again, I'm not Nostradamus - but if I'm doing it at home one only images what the players are thinking on the field.


This kind of reminds me of some Past Ram seasons - fans accused of playing the hind sight card... then came the reports from the opponents defense saying they knew what was coming and would even call it out loud - "Screen!!" "Draw!" , and would call it correctly.

Sometimes you just gotta recognize that it really is that obvious

 

[Alan]

The temptation must be tremendous.

 

[Irish]

The worst thing that ever happened to NFL Coordinators was the wild popularity of the Madden franchise.

Suddenly, every person in the world had the team's playbook (lol), and can gameplan against every other team's playbook (lol), and based on putting up 105-0 scores on all madden mode, they suddenly understands the intricacies of NFL offenses, the practical war room's worth of decision makers that make up NFL game plans, and the hours and hours of film study and metrics that go into forming and evolving a successful plan.

That being said, the other side of the coin says that you take an NFL coaching position with the understanding that, if your defense sucks, your coordinators get canned, if your offense sucks, your coordinators get canned, and if your front office sucks your head coach AND coordinators get canned. Schottenheimer has had 3 years to get it right here. The defense has seen 3 different coordinators in as many seasons and has progressed, yet we are still hovering around 7 wins. That speaks to a fundamental problem at the top of the offense.

It's not that we, or rather I, don't like Schotty as a person; I have never met him before. But, from a football standpoint, it is absolutely tiresome and frustrating to watch these brilliant defensive and special teams efforts wasted by an anemic, vanilla, and paltry offense. The only consistent thing on the offense over these 3 years is Schottenheimer and Fisher, and Fisher sure as hell isn't going anywhere (see above analogy). High draft picks and big time free agent signings have been given to Schotty to work with, and the results are quite frankly unacceptable.

 

[Sum1]

My only beef with Schotty last night was the use of 5 and 7 step drops continually when it time after time was getting blown up. Plus the fact that the pressure was most consistently coming from the right side and rarely did it appear that Barksdale was getting any extra help.
Sometimes it takes some extra scheming to get your players to execute. Sometimes what the opposition is doing is defensable but it takes some tweaking.

You can say it is execution, but to some degree the coordinator has to look at the player that keeps getting beat and figure out what needs to be changed so that it CAN be executed.

 

[Philly5]

so what about the fans that are pissed about the play call before its executed?

I still don't think the Rams should have used PA on that 3rd and 1 - I dont know how many times I've seen Schotty run that play in the red zone and throughout the game.

But if fans can pick up on tendencies - then you know dam well a good rival is gonna be more than ready for it.

And I can't tell you how many times this season I've called the play correctly prior to snap (like Playaction Slot-corner route, Run up the middle, PA bootleg into w/TE escaping into the flat) - again, I'm not Nostradamus - but if I'm doing it at home one only images what the players are thinking on the field.


This kind of reminds me of some Past Ram seasons - fans accused of playing the hind sight card... then came the reports from the opponents defense saying they knew what was coming and would even call it out loud - "Screen!!" "Draw!" , and would call it correctly.

Sometimes you just gotta recognize that it really is that obvious

I think an experienced OC like Schotty knows all about tendencies. He probably spends about 100 hours a week preparing the offensive game plan. He is doing what the HC wants. He knows his players. He knows the defense. He watches tons of film each week. He has scouting reports.

When players execute any OC is a genius. When players don't execute the OC is an idiot and the fans yelling plays at their TV are geniuses.

 

[iced]

I think an experienced OC like Schotty knows all about tendencies. He probably spends about 100 hours a week preparing the offensive game plan. He is doing what the HC wants. He knows his players. He knows the defense. He watches tons of film each week. He has scouting reports.

When players execute any OC is a genius. When players don't execute the OC is an idiot and the fans yelling plays at their TV are geniuses.

I disagree completely - obviously because Arizona wasn't fooled when the Rams ran that play on 3rd and 1.. Why? Because the Rams run it every game, especially in short yardage situations and the red zone. I expected it and feared it - still don't agree with the play call, simply based on the frequency and situation in which he calls it. Or his, tendencies.

Schotty needs to do something about adjustments, or learn what they are. This is the worst offense in the 3rd quarter this year right?

 

[Rams and Gators]

The important thing to keep in mind... I've seen no indication whatsoever that Fisher shares the opinion certain Internet Rams fans have on Schottenheimer, so I would be surprised to see him fired next year.

Maybe that's the problem? Fisher's had 2 top 15 Os in his last 10 seasons, that's pretty atrocious. I have my doubts that we're ever going to get above .500 playing Fisher ball.