Michael Sam

[Boffo97]

I mean, given the choice between Alex Carrington and Michael Sam? I take MS every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Carrington didn't do squat...

Sam can't play DT, which is one of the reasons Westbrooks beat him out. So that's apples and oranges.

As to the rest, HE is going to have to prove he belongs in this League through good play AND not causing a distraction. He didn't do himself any favors on that score by playing the discrimination card earlier this season.

Maybe he'll get a camp invite, maybe not. Maybe he'll need to go to Canada or something for a while. But he needs to realize he doesn't have the right to play in the NFL if the talent/attributes needed to play the game on the NFL level aren't there.

If not for his orientation, we wouldn't even be talking about him right now.

 

[Mackeyser]

WE wouldn't. *I* would.

I thought he was worth talking about irrespective of his orientation before, during and after his Rams tenure. Still do.

I'm only talking about him as a football player. I haven't brought up his orientation at all. Only thing I said was that he got too much work early in last camp which put him at a bit of a disadvantage during the final eval when he had camp legs and Westbrooks was fresh because he was gimped early and came on strong, late. Not saying anything was amiss or anything. That's just how it played out.

But for all of the marginal guys who get 2nd and 3rd and 4th looks in this league... I truly believe that Michael Sam is BETTER than most of those marginal guys. I'm saying if Sam could get the same level of development as George Selvie... Sam would be BETTER than Selvie. Now, is Selvie more than a serviceable starter? No. Would he start for us? No. Would he start for most even with Dallas' improvement this year? Probably not. Which makes this a pretty good comparison.

Oh... and the only thing I want to say about the orientation thing is this: if anyone wants to actually think that the Michael Sam draft "process" acquitted the NFL and somehow provided some kind of proof or cover that there is no or negligible bias against gay players in the NFL... well, I'm just not sure I could disagree strongly enough.

Again, my sole focus in discussing Michael Sam is as a football player. Since I acknowledge that there are almost certainly closeted players ALREADY in the NFL, the only thing different about Michael Sam is that he's out. Which affects me zero iotas. That said, I think Michael Sam did have the toolset and could be developed into a pass rush specialist and eventually into a solid DE.

Btw, he played at LDE in preseason as well and did well. Just didn't get as many snaps as they wanted to give him.

 

[Boffo97]

If your sole focus in discussing Sam is his ability on the field. That's fine. That's the only thing that should matter.

And my answer there is that while he may still prove me and others wrong, so far a lot of the tea leaves are pointing to his not being good enough.

That said, while I don't think it will be the Rams, I wouldn't be surprised to see him invited to a camp. Wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't either.

 

[BadCompany]

Somewhat off topic, but remember when Sam being drafted was going to be such a distraction and detriment to the NFL? What a headache it was going to be for poor Roger Goodell?

Good times, good times...

 

[LACHAMP46]

Naw....he was playing 3rd stringers mostly...if he was any good, or is any good, he'll get in the league somehow...Maybe he needs to go to Canada like Cam Wake...?

 

[Prime Time]

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/02/05/nfl-draft-combine-training/

Sam’s Rep He Was

Actually, this guy isn’t an NFL publicist, per se. He helps celebrities come out as gay, most notably actress Meredith Baxter and former NBA player John Amaechi. He was part of Michael Sam’s inner circle, invited by young agents Cameron Weiss and Joe Barkett to rep Sam in the press. A week after Sam came out to several major media organizations, I reached out to introduce myself. I said I didn’t know when Michael would be available, but I’d love to chat with him when the time was right. Here’s what I got back from Bragman:

I am the rep for Michael Sam
I am

He would not like to chat with the press
In a suit or in a dress

He would not like them
Here or there
He would not like them
anywhere.

He would not like them
in a house
He would not like them
with a mouse

He would not do them
on a box
He would not do them
with a fox

He would not,
could not,
in a car

You may want him.
You will see.
You may want him
in a tree

He would not, could not in a tree.
Not in a car! You let him be.

A train! A train!
A train! A train!
Could he, would he
on a train?

Not on a train! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! Michael Sam! Let him be!
He would not, could not, in a box.
He could not, would not, with a fox.
He will not do them with a mouse
He will not do them in a house.
He will not do them here or there.
He will not do them anywhere.

Would he, could he, in the dark?
He would not, could not,
in the dark.

Would he, could he,
in the rain?
He would not, could not, in the rain.

Not in the dark. Not on a train,
Not in a car, Not in a tree.
He does not do them, Sam, you see.
Not in a house. Not in a box.
Not with a mouse. Not with a fox.
He will not do them here or there.
He will not do them anywhere!

Could he, would he,
with a goat?

He would not,
could not.
with a goat!

Would he, could he,
on a boat?

He could not, would not, on a boat.
He will not, will not, with a goat.
He will not do them in the rain.
He will not do them on a train.
Not in the dark! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! You let him be!
He does not like them in a box.
He does not like them with a fox.
He will not do them in a house.
He will not do them with a mouse.
He will not do them here or there.
He will not do them ANYWHERE!

* With apologies to Dr. Seuss

HOWARD BRAGMAN
Vice Chairman, Reputation .com
Chairman, Fifteen Minutes Public Relations

I was so… confused. I’d never met this guy, and here he is sending me a Dr. Suess-inspired rejection letter. And on behalf of Sam, who is doing and saying everything he can to be taken more seriously. (Sidebar: How long did it take this guy to write this? Or is it a stock response? And which scenario would be more strange? I just don’t have the answers.)

Sam and Bragman eventually parted ways, which you might have guessed if you saw their heated exchange during Oprah’s documentary on Sam. Now a free agent, Sam is working out in Texas and is engaged to boyfriend Vito Cammisano. Here’s hoping that was the last we’ll hear from Bragman, but not from his wall-storming former client.

 

[snackdaddy]

Sam's got plenty of options to earn a good living. Just not sure football is one of them.

 

[Dodgersrf]

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/02/05/nfl-draft-combine-training/

Sam’s Rep He Was

Actually, this guy isn’t an NFL publicist, per se. He helps celebrities come out as gay, most notably actress Meredith Baxter and former NBA player John Amaechi. He was part of Michael Sam’s inner circle, invited by young agents Cameron Weiss and Joe Barkett to rep Sam in the press. A week after Sam came out to several major media organizations, I reached out to introduce myself. I said I didn’t know when Michael would be available, but I’d love to chat with him when the time was right. Here’s what I got back from Bragman:

I am the rep for Michael Sam
I am

He would not like to chat with the press
In a suit or in a dress

He would not like them
Here or there
He would not like them
anywhere.

He would not like them
in a house
He would not like them
with a mouse

He would not do them
on a box
He would not do them
with a fox

He would not,
could not,
in a car

You may want him.
You will see.
You may want him
in a tree

He would not, could not in a tree.
Not in a car! You let him be.

A train! A train!
A train! A train!
Could he, would he
on a train?

Not on a train! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! Michael Sam! Let him be!
He would not, could not, in a box.
He could not, would not, with a fox.
He will not do them with a mouse
He will not do them in a house.
He will not do them here or there.
He will not do them anywhere.

Would he, could he, in the dark?
He would not, could not,
in the dark.

Would he, could he,
in the rain?
He would not, could not, in the rain.

Not in the dark. Not on a train,
Not in a car, Not in a tree.
He does not do them, Sam, you see.
Not in a house. Not in a box.
Not with a mouse. Not with a fox.
He will not do them here or there.
He will not do them anywhere!

Could he, would he,
with a goat?

He would not,
could not.
with a goat!

Would he, could he,
on a boat?

He could not, would not, on a boat.
He will not, will not, with a goat.
He will not do them in the rain.
He will not do them on a train.
Not in the dark! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! You let him be!
He does not like them in a box.
He does not like them with a fox.
He will not do them in a house.
He will not do them with a mouse.
He will not do them here or there.
He will not do them ANYWHERE!

* With apologies to Dr. Seuss

HOWARD BRAGMAN
Vice Chairman, Reputation .com
Chairman, Fifteen Minutes Public Relations

I was so… confused. I’d never met this guy, and here he is sending me a Dr. Suess-inspired rejection letter. And on behalf of Sam, who is doing and saying everything he can to be taken more seriously. (Sidebar: How long did it take this guy to write this? Or is it a stock response? And which scenario would be more strange? I just don’t have the answers.)

Sam and Bragman eventually parted ways, which you might have guessed if you saw their heated exchange during Oprah’s documentary on Sam. Now a free agent, Sam is working out in Texas and is engaged to boyfriend Vito Cammisano. Here’s hoping that was the last we’ll hear from Bragman, but not from his wall-storming former client.

Bazaar choice for a publicist.

 

[Mikey Ram]

Maybe a ridiculous observation but nobody (even teams in real need of a DE) grabbed up Sam after Dallas released him...Even for their practice squad that I'm aware of...At least with me, that says something...

 

[Memento]

This was all about his orientation and the media trying to create a monster when there wasn't one and when Sam never wanted there to be one. Before he announced that he was gay, CBS rated him as a fourth round pick and said that he'd be a good backup as a pass-rusher because of his quick first step, repertoire of pass-rush moves, his non-stop motor, and his penchant for making big plays at the right time (see Florida, Oklahoma State). After his announcement, they dropped him to the sixth round and said he was too slow and too small for the NFL. Jerry Jones wanted him as a side-show and money grab; why else would he let all of those mediocre players play at defensive end and not even bring Sam up, even after players at DE got injured?

There's still a huge stigma about the LGBT community when there shouldn't be one. That's the only reason why Sam isn't in the NFL. Because he's damn well talented enough to be a capable backup. Believe me, there's nothing wrong with Michael Sam as a football player and a human being. It's only a warped mindset that should have died a long time ago that makes people think otherwise.

 

[blue4]

This was all about his orientation and the media trying to create a monster when there wasn't one and when Sam never wanted there to be one. Before he announced that he was gay, CBS rated him as a fourth round pick and said that he'd be a good backup as a pass-rusher because of his quick first step, repertoire of pass-rush moves, his non-stop motor, and his penchant for making big plays at the right time (see Florida, Oklahoma State). After his announcement, they dropped him to the sixth round and said he was too slow and too small for the NFL. Jerry Jones wanted him as a side-show and money grab; why else would he let all of those mediocre players play at defensive end and not even bring Sam up, even after players at DE got injured?

There's still a huge stigma about the LGBT community when there shouldn't be one. That's the only reason why Sam isn't in the NFL. Because he's damn well talented enough to be a capable backup. Believe me, there's nothing wrong with Michael Sam as a football player and a human being. It's only a warped mindset that should have died a long time ago that makes people think otherwise.

They said he is too small and slow for the NFL because he is. Whoever said he was a fourth round pick was delusional. I think your accusations of a warped mindset are inaccurate. He got a full chance here and was clearly beat out for a roster spot. The reason JJ let him sit while playing mediocre players is because Sam is also mediocre. He seems like a great human being and hard worker but he's just not that good. He could be nailing half the vaginas in America, it still wouldn't have helped him beat out Westbrooks or got him off the bench in Dallas. He said himself he wanted to be treated in an equal fashion in the NFL. He was. Gay rights have been gaining large support nationwide. Younger people (and some older) really don't give it a second thought. They are supported in the military and in the workplace. So can we please stop accusing the nation of bias just because many of us watched him play and formed the opinion that he's barely average?

 

[rhinobean]

Kony Ealy was the better lineman at the ZOU but he wasn't the defensive player of the year in the SEC! He was a good college player but never was a starter in the NFL! Didn't see all the teams this year but the ones the Rams played didn't look like they needed Sam's help! Hoope he finds work in the league if that's what he wants!

 

[Dieter the Brock]

This was all about his orientation and the media trying to create a monster when there wasn't one and when Sam never wanted there to be one. Before he announced that he was gay, CBS rated him as a fourth round pick and said that he'd be a good backup as a pass-rusher because of his quick first step, repertoire of pass-rush moves, his non-stop motor, and his penchant for making big plays at the right time (see Florida, Oklahoma State). After his announcement, they dropped him to the sixth round and said he was too slow and too small for the NFL. Jerry Jones wanted him as a side-show and money grab; why else would he let all of those mediocre players play at defensive end and not even bring Sam up, even after players at DE got injured?

There's still a huge stigma about the LGBT community when there shouldn't be one. That's the only reason why Sam isn't in the NFL. Because he's damn well talented enough to be a capable backup. Believe me, there's nothing wrong with Michael Sam as a football player and a human being. It's only a warped mindset that should have died a long time ago that makes people think otherwise.

Sure
but at the same time there was no need to "come out" before the draft if he didn't want to be part of a media circus - so he basically created it

Now Sam coming out or not come out it's inconsequential to me, but anything that has happened is completely his doing by coming out when he did

I mean if you can't figure out the lead singer of Judas Priest is gay then you're blind - I knew this at age 13 and it didn't stop me from jamming Priest - we all love Rob Halford

This story has finally become what it was meant to be all a long - a non-story

So according to your claim that Sam didn't want the media circus he should be totally comfortable out of the spotlight

Keep in mind there are gay men playing this game right now in the NFL, and there has always been and always will be, not a big deal

Again
Michael Sam - not good player hence no NFL

Rob Halford - great singer in rock hall of fame

It's about talent

 

[Memento]

Sure
but at the same time there was no need to "come out" before the draft if he didn't want to be part of a media circus - so he basically created it

Now Sam coming out or not come out it's inconsequential to me, but anything that has happened is completely his doing by coming out when he did

I mean if you can't figure out the lead singer of Judas Priest is gay then you're blind - I knew this at age 13 and it didn't stop me from jamming Priest - we all love Rob Halford

This story has finally become what it was meant to be all a long - a non-story

So according to your claim that Sam didn't want the media circus he should be totally. Indoor table out of the spotlight

Keep in mind there are gay men playing this game right now in the NFL, and there has always been and always will be, not a big deal

Again
Michael Sam - not good player hence no NFL

Rob Halford - great singer in rock hall of fame

It's about talent

View attachment 5345

The media was going to come out with it anyway and make it a circus. Sam took the initiative instead and came out on his own terms. Honestly, the national media was going to make it a circus no matter what, so I don't see why he wouldn't come out on his own terms. And yeah, there are gay men playing the game, but none of them have come out. None. And that's the difference. It's all fine and dandy if they keep their mouths shut, but the second one of them says who he really is, then everyone in the fucking media loses their minds.

And again, there is absolutely no reason why Sam shouldn't be in the NFL right now over some of the other defensive ends that claim space on the rosters of other teams. No reason whatsoever.

 

[Athos]

I don't think Sam's gotten a fair shake yet to start for a team.

He's limited for sure. But so many teams other than the Rams are starved for even just a guy to plug in and say go get the QB.

No trait will blow you away with him, but still, when the lights go up, he made big plays and has a relentless motor and gives 100% all the time.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

The media was going to come out with it anyway and make it a circus. Sam took the initiative instead and came out on his own terms. Honestly, the national media was going to make it a circus no matter what, so I don't see why he wouldn't come out on his own terms. And yeah, there are gay men playing the game, but none of them have come out. None. And that's the difference. It's all fine and dandy if they keep their mouths shut, but the second one of them says who he really is, then everyone in the freaking media loses their minds.

And again, there is absolutely no reason why Sam shouldn't be in the NFL right now over some of the other defensive ends that claim space on the rosters of other teams. No reason whatsoever.

Yes but the idea of "keeping their mouths shut" versus "coming out publicly" is some weird burden on the gay and lesbian community

If your gay player you should be able to do what you want. And I'm sure like me at 13 realizing the lead singer of Priest was gay didn't phase me in the least - nor was it necessary for him to "come out" publicly to media outlets everywhere - and I'm sure their teammates know full well their orientation and if they got the talent that's what matters most

Where was the burden for Sam to come out? The players at Mizzou knew he was gay and supported him - just as many teams have known some of their brothers in the trenches were gay.

I mean it's about equal rights isn't it?

If so, why can't a gay football player keep his sexual orientation to himself? Has he somehow let down some group or agenda but keep things to his it herself?

That's where I find your argument a bit fuzzy - cause you say he was compelled to come out due to the media -- so since the media was forcing he he capitulated and became part of it (Oprah exclusives) - this is not a move by someone who was just trying to mind their own business and get to work.

Don't get me wrong - Sam is 100% entitled to take whatever route he wants in life, but unlike his sexual orientation coming out when he did it was a choice ,

He is now well known and has plenty of opportunities to have a career in the "media" which he has willfully cultivated - but just not one in football

I totally appreciate what you are saying but are you open to the idea that part of the equal rights movement for gay and lesbians is having the right to keep their personal business quiet - as well as having the ability to declare it to media outlets?

If so you should have no issue with current gay players who despite the fact their teammates know they are gay decide not to come out publicly. And have no problem either with the fact Sam gambled his career by joining up with the media and lost

Sam chose his path

 

[Memento]

They said he is too small and slow for the NFL because he is. Whoever said he was a fourth round pick was delusional. I think your accusations of a warped mindset are inaccurate. He got a full chance here and was clearly beat out for a roster spot. The reason JJ let him sit while playing mediocre players is because Sam is also mediocre. He seems like a great human being and hard worker but he's just not that good. He could be nailing half the vaginas in America, it still wouldn't have helped him beat out Westbrooks or got him off the bench in Dallas. He said himself he wanted to be treated in an equal fashion in the NFL. He was. Gay rights have been gaining large support nationwide. Younger people (and some older) really don't give it a second thought. They are supported in the military and in the workplace. So can we please stop accusing the nation of bias just because many of us watched him play and formed the opinion that he's barely average?

Then you must think that CBS, Walterfootball, NFL.com, and a lot of other people on a lot of other sites were delusional. Because they all had him rated as a third-to-fourth round pick before he came out. If they still had their old picks and I could post them here, I'd gladly show you. And a full chance here? He could and should have definitely beat out Carrington (who did nothing in the preseason and the regular season), while Westbrooks claimed the fourth defensive tackle slot. A full chance in Dallas? People at DE were going on IR there, and Sam was never even brought up to replace them.

As for gay rights gaining traction? Are you kidding me? Gays and lesbians can't even marry in a good portion of the U.S. The suicide rate in LGBT teens is alarming. More than sixty percent of them attempt suicide before they turn eighteen; a good many of them succeed. There are still many parents who kick their own kids out of their house and disown them before they're even old enough to join the military for no reason other than being who they really are. There are many hate crimes that go on with impunity because the victims are too scared to come out or - worse still - they were murdered in cold blood and nobody is willing to take a stand for them. There are no domestic hotlines for battered women and men who happen to be gay or bi-sexual. The police are known to give trans people oppressive treatment in every facet of the law. And let's not even start with bullying and harassment.

I'm not accusing the nation of bias. But it would be a horrible lie to claim that everything is great and that a good portion of the nation aren't insanely prejudiced. And it is a warped mindset.

 

[Boffo97]

This was all about his orientation and the media trying to create a monster when there wasn't one and when Sam never wanted there to be one. Before he announced that he was gay, CBS rated him as a fourth round pick and said that he'd be a good backup as a pass-rusher because of his quick first step, repertoire of pass-rush moves, his non-stop motor, and his penchant for making big plays at the right time (see Florida, Oklahoma State). After his announcement, they dropped him to the sixth round and said he was too slow and too small for the NFL. Jerry Jones wanted him as a side-show and money grab; why else would he let all of those mediocre players play at defensive end and not even bring Sam up, even after players at DE got injured?

There's still a huge stigma about the LGBT community when there shouldn't be one. That's the only reason why Sam isn't in the NFL. Because he's damn well talented enough to be a capable backup. Believe me, there's nothing wrong with Michael Sam as a football player and a human being. It's only a warped mindset that should have died a long time ago that makes people think otherwise.

Sam absolutely got a fair shake. He was a good player in college, but marginal in the NFL due to size issues. And even though he came with distraction issues that were partially of his own creation (OWN fiasco), he got drafted and two teams had him on roster. If they had him on a roster, that absolutely implies that if he was good enough, he would have played. No one on a practice squad can be a "side-show" because you never see PS guys.

Unfortunately, while I agree there are SOME (not all, not most) who looked down on him because of his orientation, there are also some (not necessarily in here) who want him to succeed totally because of that and would have called discrimination unless he was a starter and a perennial all pro and perhaps even then even if he isn't good enough to be that.

There is more that I could say in response to some of this, especially once you start going off football in the message above this one, but given that it's veering wildly into politics and this thread is now only vaguely Rams relevant, I'll just say I don't necessarily agree with some of the things you say.

 

[Mikey Ram]

To be fair, for everyone who said he was cut because of his sexual orientation, there would have been one who said he wasn't cut because of it if he had stuck with a team...Which side would be correct ?? They would both be correct, both SHOULD be incorrect...Life and thought processes that have been in the forefront for tens of thousands of years are not going to be changed in a matter a FEW years...I'm comfortable in my skin, I would never presume to tell anyone that they should'n be in theirs...I believe that statement , if put into play. would put an end to this entire conversation...