Matt Stafford Traded to Rams

[Tano]

The Lions took all guarantees which is why the Rams have zero dead cap in 2022 which is huge. I was mistaken that they were able to take our 2021 dead cap, but they def took the 2022 cap hit because Goff's salary guarantees on the 2nd day of the league year, 3/18, iirc

When Stafford had an offense, he didn't have a defense and vice versa.

In the 3 playoff games with Stafford, the Detroit D gave up 31.7ppg, so even if the D did well during the season, they crapped the bed in the playoffs...

There is no evidence that Goff could have garnered a 1st and 2nd. Rest assured, Snead had fielded inquiries about Goff.

Do you REALLY think if Snead thought he could get that, that he wouldn't have pulled the trigger?

I'm def not anti-Goff. If anything, *I* was the ONLY one on this forum who went to the mattresses saying that Goff could be ELITE. I think I know why that's not the case now, but maybe it still can be.

Goff is not without skill or good traits. The Rams were public about going forward with him insofar as there'd be a competition which I said several times I thought he'd win. The Rams and many orgs in the NFL see Stafford as an upgrade.

As for the picks? I dunno. I see all sorts of pros and cons.

I HATED this trade at first and I don't expect anyone to come around like I did or as fast...

I certainly don't begrudge anyone still processing this.

Okay I would like someone with more CAP knowledge than me to break down the CAP hits to the lions and Rams for 2021 2022 and 2023.

I have heard so many different things that I would like to know the exact numbers.

It may lesson how badly I feel about this trade right now.

As to not getting a first and second for Goff, I read a lot of stories that McVay and Snead pulled a crapper by stating Goff is the QB right now. Many people feel Goff's value went way down after that. And I agree with them.

Look at what the Rams got for Bradford and Goff was way better than Bradford stats wise.

The Rams really went about this the wrong way to get the QB they wanted. So far the only team that was truly competing for us for Stafford was Washington from the reports that I have read. SF and NE hadn't even discussed anything yet. Maybe Indy was beginning discussions but like a lot of people have stated, Goff would have been perfect for Indy.

Detroit sure pulled a fast one on us.

 

[ozarkram]

The days of team loyalty to players and vice versus is and has been long gone. Being against the trade straight up I understand. But the cutthroat way the business is done is nothing new.

 

[Mackeyser]

You make some good points and admittedly it’s not always clear when the right time to tell a player you are trading him is. Imagine telling him you are looking to trade him and then it doesn’t work out. Goff would say too bad I want out now with your no confidence bullshit.

So I am not holding that against Mcvay. And honestly telling the media “right now”, was really the honest approach. We would be harping on him either way. It’s just a shitty situation where many of us think Mcvay made some bad decisions leading to the offensive demise. So Goff is the fall guy. So we will see if Mcvay was right. I doubt it. But in a twisted sense I hope he was because otherwise we are in for a long period of just above average football without addressing the real issues and selling the farm needlessly.

Also your arguments from silence are not proof. Saying “ we never heard” Goff doing extra work with WR’s or “We never heard” him doing extra film work. That’s some bad logic. It also degrades the player in a rumor like fashion, which is pretty shitty.

Did you hear Donald staying overtime in the film room this year? Me neither.

Did I hear about Donald staying overtime? Yeah, I did. It's also par for the course for him. Every report is that he's working harder than ever, grinding harder than ever.

One was the story of Donald being a first in the building guy...as always... and finding Wolford already there and having to kick him out.

As a big fan of Goff, the last thing I want to do is cast aspersions at him. I realize the question is damning in and of itself, but that I'm willing to do.

And part of it is logic: how else to reconcile the Rams sending Goff and TWO 1sts and a 3rd to Detroit for Stafford? If the issues were solely OL and McVay playcalling, then that leads to further questions and it doesn't gel with what we've seen, what opposing defenders say after studying Goff on film and what we know from how this FO and McVay operate.

 

[dieterbrock]

A stat just saw on Greeny this morning.

in the 3 Detroit playoff losses in the past 12 years... Detroit defense gave up 31.7ppg.

that's crazy

Well, its quite a bit skewed as the Saints put 45 on them in the first of Stafford's 3 playoff losses. Ironically that was probably his best game in post season, despite throwing 2 INT, the first of which was a back breaker.
That was then, this is now. We dont need to make excuses for him, he played poorly in his playoff games. That's fine with me, all it means is that he got the bad play out of his system and when he gets in the playoffs after this season he'll have learned from his mistakes and wont make em again!

 

[Tano]

Well, its quite a bit skewed as the Saints put 45 on them in the first of Stafford's 3 playoff losses. Ironically that was probably his best game in post season, despite throwing 2 INT, the first of which was a back breaker.
That was then, this is now. We dont need to make excuses for him, he played poorly in his playoff games. That's fine with me, all it means is that he got the bad play out of his system and when he gets in the playoffs after this season he'll have learned from his mistakes and wont make em again!

We can hope but that's the same thing people were saying Goff wouldn't be able to do

 

[Mackeyser]

Okay I would like someone with more CAP knowledge than me to break down the CAP hits to the lions and Rams for 2021 2022 and 2023.

I have heard so many different things that I would like to know the exact numbers.

It may lesson how badly I feel about this trade right now.

As to not getting a first and second for Goff, I read a lot of stories that McVay and Snead pulled a crapper by stating Goff is the QB right now. Many people feel Goff's value went way down after that. And I agree with them.

Look at what the Rams got for Bradford and Goff was way better than Bradford stats wise.

The Rams really went about this the wrong way to get the QB they wanted. So far the only team that was truly competing for us for Stafford was Washington from the reports that I have read. SF and NE hadn't even discussed anything yet. Maybe Indy was beginning discussions but like a lot of people have stated, Goff would have been perfect for Indy.

Detroit sure pulled a fast one on us.

Well, friend, when it comes to the behavior of McVay and Snead after the GB loss, I have no words.

I don't think it fundamentally changed how the league saw Goff because they have all of his film and they have their own Player Development departments that evaluate all the pro players.

As for the cap,

By making the trade now, the Lions take the guarantee for Goff's 2022 salary which locks in on 3/18/21

That means the Rams in 2021 are at $31M of dead cap and are at ZERO in 2022 and 2023. 2021 is the last of Gurley's dead cap and now it's the only Goff cap hit.

2022 will go up as soon as they sign rookies by about $1M especially as we have no 1st round signing bonus to account for.

As for who wanted Stafford, LAR, WFT, Indy, Carolina and one other team put in actual offers. SF wanted him, but they seem to not want to spend that kind of draft capital on Stafford and didn't make a formal offer. Also, the ONE team Stafford refused to report to was NE. Matt Patricia was the HC in Detroit and it looks like he'll be back in NE in some capacity and Stafford was having NONE of that.

I think this migraine has finally broken so after I get up (been sleeping days lately), if I can get caught up on everything, I'll link to the post where who offered what is detailed presuming someone else doesn't beat me to it.

 

[Tano]

Well, friend, when it comes to the behavior of McVay and Snead after the GB loss, I have no words.

I don't think it fundamentally changed how the league saw Goff because they have all of his film and they have their own Player Development departments that evaluate all the pro players.

As for the cap,

By making the trade now, the Lions take the guarantee for Goff's 2022 salary which locks in on 3/18/21

That means the Rams in 2021 are at $31M of dead cap and are at ZERO in 2022 and 2023. 2021 is the last of Gurley's dead cap and now it's the only Goff cap hit.

2022 will go up as soon as they sign rookies by about $1M especially as we have no 1st round signing bonus to account for.

As for who wanted Stafford, LAR, WFT, Indy, Carolina and one other team put in actual offers. SF wanted him, but they seem to not want to spend that kind of draft capital on Stafford and didn't make a formal offer. Also, the ONE team Stafford refused to report to was NE. Matt Patricia was the HC in Detroit and it looks like he'll be back in NE in some capacity and Stafford was having NONE of that.

I think this migraine has finally broken so after I get up (been sleeping days lately), if I can get caught up on everything, I'll link to the post where who offered what is detailed presuming someone else doesn't beat me to it.

Yeah but exactly what is the CAP hit for Detroit in 2021 2022 and 2023

I have read all kinds of different numbers and they are all swirling around my head now lol

 

[dieterbrock]

We can hope but that's the same thing people were saying Goff wouldn't be able to do

This isnt about Goff. He's no longer part of the equation. Can only judge Stafford on what he does in a Rams uniform. The past is the past

 

[ozarkram]

My understanding is that Goff's fate was sealed mid season. The coach felt he was regressing when he should have progressed to the point of taking the team on his shoulders. So something was going to go down.

 

[dieterbrock]

That means the Rams in 2021 are at $31M of dead cap and are at ZERO in 2022 and 2023. 2021 is the last of Gurley's dead cap and now it's the only Goff cap hit.

Well, truth be told, the Rams have ZERO dead cap in 2022 & 2023 "right now"....

 

[Snaz]

I hate this trade. The two first rounders is too much to ask for.

Would have Matthew Stafford instead of Goff allowed us to beat Green Bay?

The answer is NO. We need to upgrade the Offensive Line, and not the QB.
I think Goff with all his issues would have been fine.

But we have Cap space, so maybe they will solve the OL issues as well.

 

[Mackeyser]

Yeah but exactly what is the CAP hit for Detroit in 2021 2022 and 2023

I have read all kinds of different numbers and they are all swirling around my head now lol

Spotrac.com is updated...

2024 Detroit Lions Cap Table

The Detroit Lions 2024 salary cap table, including team cap space, dead cap figures, and complete breakdowns of player cap hits, salaries, and bonuses.

www.spotrac.com

 

[dieterbrock]

My understanding is that Goff's fate was sealed mid season. The coach felt he was regressing when he should have progressed to the point of taking the team on his shoulders. So something was going to go down.

That's the spin, but I dont buy it one bit. Alas, I keep telling myself, the past is the past, got to stick with it and not get sucked in lol
The past is the past....

 

[ozarkram]

That's the spin, but I dont buy it one bit. Alas, I keep telling myself, the past is the past, got to stick with it and not get sucked in lol
The past is the past....

I want to believe no stone was left unturned in giving Goff every chance to be the guy. I have to believe that. Not that my coach may chase every new shiny thing on a whim.

 

[Mackeyser]

I want to believe no stone was left unturned in giving Goff every chance to be the guy. I have to believe that. Not that my coach may chase every new shiny thing on a whim.

That jibes with everything we've learned about McVay over the last 4 years.

The idea that McVay was just irrational and went, "SQUIRREL" is beyond the pale.

Just watching how he handled the kicking situation this year tells me that as consistent as McVay is, there's still something or somethings we don't know about the Goff situation.

We may never know.

 

[FrantikRam]

My understanding is that Goff's fate was sealed mid season. The coach felt he was regressing when he should have progressed to the point of taking the team on his shoulders. So something was going to go down.

I saw it. I was basically screaming at the TV when we were up 24-3 against both the Patriots and Bears and McVay wasn't making Goff throw. I was so confused. The weirdly conservative nature of our game winning drive against Tampa.

IMO, when you look at all this together, I think McVay felt he had to remain conservative because of Goff and he hated it.

From McVay's perspective, the treatment of Goff is pretty easy to see if you imagine all the Monday morning conversations about missed WRs, missed throws and turnovers. This was a number one overall pick making $30 million - that matters. I hate comparing pro sports to real life, but if you're a highly paid employee but are underachieving, you won't have long.

Just my perspective on it. We don't know what McVay actually saw in Goff and we'll never know, but if it was as bad as my guess above, easy to imagine the frustration.

NOTE: I'm not saying this as fact, just my thoughts

 

[Tano]

Spotrac.com is updated...

2024 Detroit Lions Cap Table

The Detroit Lions 2024 salary cap table, including team cap space, dead cap figures, and complete breakdowns of player cap hits, salaries, and bonuses.

www.spotrac.com

Okay I see the cap hits and they are only 25M each year for Detroit and the only Dead Cap is for this year a and in 2022 at 15 million.

Detroit is not taking on bad cap hits in the Goff trade.

I am sticking to my guns that this was a terrible trade and that Detroit reamed us for the two first round picks.

I am sticking at most we should have given up a third this year and a second next year since I think Goff is hugely underrated and Stafford is greatly overrated (just my opinion at the moment and one I really have to watch the games to verify if true or not).

But right at this very moment, I truly believe this is a horrible trade on the Rams part and will take me 8 months to get over (once the new season starts).

Again disagree all you want but that's how I feel about it and nothing is going to deter me from it until I watch Staffords games last year.

And I apologize that I didn't hold my analysis of this trade until after I watch the games. But I really wanted to know the CAP numbers too.

 

[ozarkram]

Okay I see the cap hits and they are only 25M each year for Detroit and the only Dead Cap is for this year a and in 2022 at 15 million.

Detroit is not taking on bad cap hits in the Goff trade.

I am sticking to my guns that this was a terrible trade and that Detroit reamed us for the two first round picks.

I am sticking at most we should have given up a third this year and a second next year since I think Goff is hugely underrated and Stafford is greatly overrated (just my opinion at the moment and one I really have to watch the games to verify if true or not).

But right at this very moment, I truly believe this is a horrible trade on the Rams part and will take me 8 months to get over (once the new season starts).

Again disagree all you want but that's how I feel about it and nothing is going to deter me from it until I watch Staffords games last year.

Well then by all means double down on it.

 

[Tano]

This isnt about Goff. He's no longer part of the equation. Can only judge Stafford on what he does in a Rams uniform. The past is the past

I know but it irks me that people were so against Goff that they couldn't see the majority of his problems was due to a crappy center position. A weak link in the line really offsets how much better the rest of the line is.

But I guess I will have to agree to disagree with those who were so against Goff improving.

 

[Mackeyser]

Okay I see the cap hits and they are only 25M each year for Detroit and the only Dead Cap is for this year a and in 2022 at 15 million.

Detroit is not taking on bad cap hits in the Goff trade.

I am sticking to my guns that this was a terrible trade and that Detroit reamed us for the two first round picks.

I am sticking at most we should have given up a third this year and a second next year since I think Goff is hugely underrated and Stafford is greatly overrated (just my opinion at the moment and one I really have to watch the games to verify if true or not).

But right at this very moment, I truly believe this is a horrible trade on the Rams part and will take me 8 months to get over (once the new season starts).

Again disagree all you want but that's how I feel about it and nothing is going to deter me from it until I watch Staffords games last year.

And I apologize that I didn't hold my analysis of this trade until after I watch the games. But I really wanted to know the CAP numbers too.

Like I said, I HATED it at first as well.

I fully expect that once people see him in this offense, Stafford will win folks over.

We'll have pre-season games and after the first few series, I think folks will start moving...and quickly...to appreciating Stafford.