Matt Stafford Traded to Rams

[SteezyEndo]

I wanted to give Goff another year to see if he could bounce back. I don't see it as remotely ridiculous to question Stafford's ability to elevate this team to a Super Bowl winner when he's never won a playoff game in his 12 years in the NFL.

He may have never bounced back regardless of all the fixing we would have done, and it may have taken longer than a year if he somehow did. You can argue that Matt Stafford has lasted 12 seasons in the NFL as a starting QB. Do you think Goff would still be a starting QB in 8 years? I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[jrry32]

He may have never bounced back regardless of all the fixing we would have done, and it may have taken longer than a year if he somehow did. You can argue that Matt Stafford has lasted 12 seasons in the NFL as a starting QB. Do you think Goff would still be a starting QB in 8 years? I guess we will have to wait and see.

I don't know. I can't predict the future. I know that Goff is 7 years younger and has more playoff wins, 100+ passer rating seasons, Pro Bowl appearances, and top 5 scoring offenses. But he was also the lesser QB in 2020.

That all said, I'd have given him a chance to bounce back in 2021. If he didn't, I'd have used those two firsts to trade up for a QB (if necessary). I'd then have done what KC did with Mahomes and Alex Smith. That's how I would have handled the situation. But I didn't get to make that call. So we'll see what happens.

 

[XXXIVwin]

That all said, I'd have given him a chance to bounce back in 2021. If he didn't, I'd have used those two firsts to trade up for a QB (if necessary).

Ugh. In my crystal ball, with Goff on the Rams in 2021, I’d see a continuation of what we saw in 2019 and 2020– another good team, around 9-7 or 10-6, probably make the playoffs, maybe advance to wild card or divisional round at best.

But even if the Rams decided to cut bait and “used those two firsts to trade up for a QB,” please remember that we gave up a fortune to move up from 15 to 1 back in 2016. To get Goff, we had to give up 2 1sts AND 2 2nds AND 2 3rds. If in 2021 we finished 9-7 or 10-6 (and slotted around 20-26 in the draft) we’d have to give up a fortune (again) to move up.

But mainly... please keep in mind how AWFUL the success rate has been for NFL teams picking 1st round QB’s over the last decade. Success rate has been only about 25 percent at best

Here’s a reminder of some 1st round QB’s since 2010:

Paxton Lynch, Manziel, Rosen, Trubisky, Locker, Ponder, RG3, Bortles, EJ Manuel, Tebow, Gabbert, Weeden, Winston, Mariota, Darnold, Dwayne Haskins, Bradford, Wentz...

Yeah, there have been a few hits like Mahomes (obviously) and Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. But WAY more misses than hits.

So yeah, count me among those who is glad the Rams traded for an ESTABLISHED veteran QB who unquestionably has a ton of talent.

Playing roulette with a 1st round QB is the LAST option, IMHO. If we’ve tanked and are in total rebuild mode, then yeah. But a “pretty good” team with a bunch of superstars in their prime? Please add a vet QB, don’t start all over in the draft.

 

[T-REX]

View: https://media.giphy.com/media/fX8Zb2M0nioamR2PYL/giphy.gif



View: https://media.giphy.com/media/xUStFKHmuFPYk/giphy.gif

 

[Tano]

How many wins did Goff have before McVay arrived?

McVay's skill is compensating for a QB's weaknesses and giving that QB a chance to succeed. Stafford has a different skill set than Goff and I don't think McVay will need to lessen the playbook for him AT ALL. We are in exciting times, boys!

Really?

I have stated many many many times that year we had the worst OC in the history of the NFL.

I went back and looked at those games in 2016 and realized that his offensive plan during the first half was mostly to run up the gut or throw passes to ALL 5 receivers within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.;

Go back to that year and you will see what I am talking about.

 

[Loyal]

Really?

I have stated many many many times that year we had the worst OC in the history of the NFL.

I went back and looked at those games in 2016 and realized that his offensive plan during the first half was mostly to run up the gut or throw passes to ALL 5 receivers within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.;

Go back to that year and you will see what I am talking about.

Really.

Nothing you said had anything to do with Sean McVay's ability in his first year to get us a double digit winning record and playoff appearance in his rookie year as a HC. Who gives a crap about the Fisher year with Goff, except to compare the transformation of the team? I m sure that we both hoped McVay could transform Jared Goff in that first McVay year, but we didn't know. It was faith, because every talking head was calling him a bust.

 

[Tano]

Really.

Nothing you said had anything to do with Sean McVay's ability in his first year to get us a double digit winning record and playoff appearance in his rookie year as a HC. Who gives a crap about the Fisher year with Goff, except to compare the transformation of the team? I m sure that we both hoped McVay could transform Jared Goff in that first McVay year, but we didn't know. It was faith, because every talking head was calling him a bust.

Yes really

Goff not having a win in his first year had all to do with how bad a OC Boras was and how stubborn Fisher was in not implementing a creative offensive game plan.

Even Case Keenan who was adequate got shut out against SF that year under the offensive game plan. it was absolutely horrible.

McVay was awesome in changing the offensive structure but Goff had a lot to do with our success as well in 2017.

 

[leoram]

Ugh, this snowstorm has brought me to a level or unprecedented boredom in my 56 years but still not a level where I will read 127 pages of this thread so forgive me if I repeat things already posted here.

My take is that Stafford's experience affords McVay the opportunity to do several things he couldn't do with Goff for a few years in the future. Stafford can challenge McVay with passing concepts he's used successfully that Sean hasn't considered. McVay can challenge Stafford with running options that Matt has never used. Once a gameplan is formed, Stafford can run the offense with minimal input and go no huddle more frequently. Milliseconds count and Stafford has the ability to process defenses more rapidly after the snap. Matt's aggression could lead to turnovers but also more explosives that improve the overall production.

None of this could matter if the offensive line isn't addressed but in the vacuum of Goff/Stafford, the offensive potential increased exponentially with this trade.

That doesn't mean Goff wasn't a good QB. He has accomplished many great things for which we should all be grateful.

 

[den-the-coach]

Ugh, this snowstorm has brought me to a level or unprecedented boredom in my 56 years but still not a level where I will read 127 pages of this thread so forgive me if I repeat things already posted here.

None of this could matter if the offensive line isn't addressed but in the vacuum of Goff/Stafford, the offensive potential increased exponentially with this trade.

That doesn't mean Goff wasn't a good QB. He has accomplished many great things for which we should all be grateful.

Yeah I dislike winter and have posted about as such, but being so close in age (54) concur with your assessment that the offensive line needs to be addressed, especially if they are planning on dropping back the QB more often for the deeper routes.

I never like trading older for younger, not in baseball either with pitching for example, but IMO, it came down to processing the play & I believe Wolford was able to showcase that a tad more against Arizona, just didn't have the arm strength for example to complete the deep pass to Jefferson. Stafford has that arm strength & the hand size to be able to pump fake too, so as long as Stafford stays healthy the Ram offense should be better and hopefully the defense will stay effective too.

 

[jrry32]

Ugh. In my crystal ball, with Goff on the Rams in 2021, I’d see a continuation of what we saw in 2019 and 2020– another good team, around 9-7 or 10-6, probably make the playoffs, maybe advance to wild card or divisional round at best.

But even if the Rams decided to cut bait and “used those two firsts to trade up for a QB,” please remember that we gave up a fortune to move up from 15 to 1 back in 2016. To get Goff, we had to give up 2 1sts AND 2 2nds AND 2 3rds. If in 2021 we finished 9-7 or 10-6 (and slotted around 20-26 in the draft) we’d have to give up a fortune (again) to move up.

But mainly... please keep in mind how AWFUL the success rate has been for NFL teams picking 1st round QB’s over the last decade. Success rate has been only about 25 percent at best

Here’s a reminder of some 1st round QB’s since 2010:

Paxton Lynch, Manziel, Rosen, Trubisky, Locker, Ponder, RG3, Bortles, EJ Manuel, Tebow, Gabbert, Weeden, Winston, Mariota, Darnold, Dwayne Haskins, Bradford, Wentz...

Yeah, there have been a few hits like Mahomes (obviously) and Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. But WAY more misses than hits.

So yeah, count me among those who is glad the Rams traded for an ESTABLISHED veteran QB who unquestionably has a ton of talent.

Playing roulette with a 1st round QB is the LAST option, IMHO. If we’ve tanked and are in total rebuild mode, then yeah. But a “pretty good” team with a bunch of superstars in their prime? Please add a vet QB, don’t start all over in the draft.

There's always going to be more misses than hits. But we have a great front office and a great HC. Those are things most teams don't have. And we wouldn't have been trading up to #1 if we did trade up. I'm not happy that we traded for an aging QB. I felt we had a large window and just compressed it.

 

[jrry32]

Really?

I have stated many many many times that year we had the worst OC in the history of the NFL.

I went back and looked at those games in 2016 and realized that his offensive plan during the first half was mostly to run up the gut or throw passes to ALL 5 receivers within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.;

Go back to that year and you will see what I am talking about.

Boras made Todd Gurley look like one of the worst HBs in the NFL. Maybe Brandon Staley got some tips from him on how to prevent offenses from scoring lol.

 

[FrantikRam]

There's always going to be more misses than hits. But we have a great front office and a great HC. Those are things most teams don't have. And we wouldn't have been trading up to #1 if we did trade up. I'm not happy that we traded for an aging QB. I felt we had a large window and just compressed it.

When you say large window, do you think it's larger than Donald's remaining prime years? Those could just be another two/three years.

 

[nighttrain]

There's always going to be more misses than hits. But we have a great front office and a great HC. Those are things most teams don't have. And we wouldn't have been trading up to #1 if we did trade up. I'm not happy that we traded for an aging QB. I felt we had a large window and just compressed it.

this is what i am afraid of, small window with Stafford, when JG just entering his prime..........
train

 

[jrry32]

When you say large window, do you think it's larger than Donald's remaining prime years? Those could just be another two/three years.

Yes.

 

[FrantikRam]

Yes.

That goes back to whether it was smart to pay AD IMO. If he's truly this generationally elite, best defensive player in the NFL type of talent (FWIW I think he is and think that he's worth it), then I don't see the argument for thinking our window would extend past his prime years.

And if we didn't make this trade and then moved on from Goff and drafted a QB, that QB would need a year or two to get up to speed - we've now wasted Donald's prime, unless that extends to his mid-thirties, which is possible but not probable.

So it seems like McVay said to himself: "I've got three years with Donald. A rookie QB isn't a guarantee, we don't plan on picking high, and would likely not be an improvement over Goff - so the question is, do I think Goff is the answer? If not, age really isn't a factor".

Thinking Stafford won't be an upgrade is fine. But if McVay doesn't think Goff is salvageable, this trade makes a ton of sense from a championship window perspective. And he obviously didn't think Goff was salvageable.

 

[Tano]

That goes back to whether it was smart to pay AD IMO. If he's truly this generationally elite, best defensive player in the NFL type of talent (FWIW I think he is and think that he's worth it), then I don't see the argument for thinking our window would extend past his prime years.

And if we didn't make this trade and then moved on from Goff and drafted a QB, that QB would need a year or two to get up to speed - we've now wasted Donald's prime, unless that extends to his mid-thirties, which is possible but not probable.

So it seems like McVay said to himself: "I've got three years with Donald. A rookie QB isn't a guarantee, we don't plan on picking high, and would likely not be an improvement over Goff - so the question is, do I think Goff is the answer? If not, age really isn't a factor".

Thinking Stafford won't be an upgrade is fine. But if McVay doesn't think Goff is salvageable, this trade makes a ton of sense from a championship window perspective. And he obviously didn't think Goff was salvageable.

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection. Overruled.

Sorry - had to say it lol

However, I do agree with you that McVay probably doesn't think Goff is salvageable and that we had to trade Goff because of that.

I just think Goff was worth more in a trade and both Snead and McVay messed up in their press conferences and lowered Goff's value by saying "he is the QB - right now"

I just wish that McVay would have been more hyped about Goff's performance after the Green Bay game and maybe mentioned that Green Bay was doing extremely well pressuring Goff on 3rd and long and Goff just wasn't able to evade that pass rush.

That way - McVay is implying that Goff is extremely good with time and that he wants someone that can evade the rush. Just my thought.

 

[jrry32]

That goes back to whether it was smart to pay AD IMO. If he's truly this generationally elite, best defensive player in the NFL type of talent (FWIW I think he is and think that he's worth it), then I don't see the argument for thinking our window would extend past his prime years.

I don't remotely agree with this argument. The Texans made the playoffs in 2016 when J.J. Watt played only 3 games and 2019 when Watt played only 8 games. Watt and Donald are two of the best defensive players of my lifetime. But they're not indispensable. We won 13 games in the 2020 regular season with a below average defense. It'll hurt when Donald declines and ultimately retires, but it's not fatal to this team. AD is worth the money he's being paid, but we're also not going to be completely lost when he retires.

And if we didn't make this trade and then moved on from Goff and drafted a QB, that QB would need a year or two to get up to speed - we've now wasted Donald's prime, unless that extends to his mid-thirties, which is possible but not probable.

Goff would continue starting while the QB got up to speed. That's also ignoring the scenario where Goff steps his game up and does the job. My issue with the "wasting Donald's prime" argument is that we're going to end up wasting it anyways (by your logic) if we don't win a Super Bowl. And I don't see Stafford as the caliber of QB who immediately elevates us to a Super Bowl favorite.

So it seems like McVay said to himself: "I've got three years with Donald. A rookie QB isn't a guarantee, we don't plan on picking high, and would likely not be an improvement over Goff - so the question is, do I think Goff is the answer? If not, age really isn't a factor".

Thinking Stafford won't be an upgrade is fine. But if McVay doesn't think Goff is salvageable, this trade makes a ton of sense from a championship window perspective. And he obviously didn't think Goff was salvageable.

Or he wasn't willing to be patient enough to find out. That's an issue that plagued his mentor, Jon Gruden, too.

 

[PARAM]

I don't believe Goff was "as bad" as many fans portray. Does he have room for improvement? Absolutely. But he's still young and might prove fully capable of such improvement. I read an interesting article about Goff/McVay and the guy makes some legit points. I think either McVay didn't want to invest any more time in developing Goff further or there was a definite falling out between them. Or the way he was developed by McVay seriously affected the natural progression and growth. The point the author of the article made was it's possible Goff wasn't given the opportunity to fail and learn from that. Does he mean rather than teaching the guy how to look at the defense, he simply told him to change the play to an alternate......in his ear right up to the 15 second deadline? I don't know. But there's a difference between teaching someone to do something, so he learns and simply telling him to do it a certain way, so he's immediately effective, even if it really isn't so much "him".

 

[payote75]

He may have never bounced back regardless of all the fixing we would have done, and it may have taken longer than a year if he somehow did. You can argue that Matt Stafford has lasted 12 seasons in the NFL as a starting QB. Do you think Goff would still be a starting QB in 8 years? I guess we will have to wait and see.

Exactly and you can't hold up the whole franchise for a single players development. Most of us keep saying we are so worried about wasting another one of ADs prime years. ADs don't come along too often we can't just "give" Goff another year while AD possibly "wastes" a year.
If we were a mid tier or loser team then yes I'd understand....but if your boss spent billions on an new office building billions to relocate his company and being sued for billions by St. Louis would you have the guts to walk in and ask the owner for another year to see if Timmy in accounting can get another year to develop so he grasps his job better by then????
Stan might be the man but bad business is bad business. Let alone if we don't get AD a ring and he a homegrown ram we waste another year of Ramsey as well and akers.
Then we start to have to face more decisions in the future. Before you know it kupp woods AD Ramsey and of course Akers contracts will come up (like now with JJ) and we had to hold the bus to see if the highest paid player on the team was ever going to get it or get better.
That's not fair to the owner and not fair to the other guys that bust their ass and are leaving a legacy hopefully.
It's sad I would have wanted Goff to have another year too and finish a great rams career. I said it myself but looking now I was wrong. The bus needs to keep moving can't stop now.

 

[payote75]

Look it's one thing to discuss the "possibilities" of Goff being bad good to great. And the same people that keep saying they have faith in this regime and the front office to trade picks for a young qb etc. Are the same people that conveniently don't have faith in this assessment of trading of Goff.
Disagreement on the trade is one thing but can't say there is confidence when it suits your agenda.
As far as holding the window open for Goff or AD that's silly if anyone thinks the wait and see possible maybe wishing hoping praying he is a generational talent qb or is equal to what is already an established generational talent and needs no coddling or hand holding or help at all factor Jalen into that and the window is around them because they are always dominant at there positions and are one of if not the best at there positions AD for sure.
So please man can we stop with who the window should stay open for or wastes these guys prime years for pissing in the wind hope of a generational qb. We all know the saying a bird in hand blah blah....well we have two birds.

Lastly if we have so much faith in the front office why can't we have faith they find a qb that's really good or a star in middle rounds let alone we still have Wolford who could be good and if Stafford were to get hurt we will see what Wolfie has. If we have faith in the front office we can disagree with them because of our like for the the trading of a player because we liked him but the faith should still remain when the goggles for that player are removed it's about the whole team but if we have to break it down by individual I ride with AD.
Sorry man.