Mariota, Winston or Hundley?

[Memphis Ram]

As am I. And the best way to get wins is with a guy that can win you games with his arm. Even Alex Smith got the 49ers to the NFC Championship Game.

And I'd say the best way to get wins is with the QB that best fits the team's philosophy and with a guy who can win games with his arm AND feet. BTW, while not as effective as Kaepernick and Wilson, even Alex Smith ran quite a bit that year as I recall.

 

[Athos]

Meh. Screw the Kraperdink's who have no pocket presence (Wilson too, mostly because of his height) who rely first on legs, then on arm.

Rodgers is the real mold of a QB who is highly athletic and mobile, but can gash you good for some runs (throw in Luck in this area as well).

I want a passer first and a QB who knows to use his legs only when he has to or has the opening to do so and doesn't leave himself open to hits.

IMO, if you start taking away CK's ability to run (or age takes it away) he won't be nearly as effective. And his passing is something less than desirable, even with all the weapons SF has given him.

IMO, a better passer on that team makes them a more dangerous team.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Perhaps best is the wrong word. Easiest is perhaps the better word to use. With that in mind the way thing are now, I'd say it's much easier to find a Kaepernick or Wilson than it is to find your Mannings, Brees, Bradys and the like. Hence the buttload of bust at the position.

 

[A55VA6]

I think if you look at overall talent, you have to go with Jameis Winston. I'm a huge Mariota fan so I'd be really happy with him too.

Rams will have to trade up if they want one of them.

 

[Athos]

Perhaps best is the wrong word. Easiest is perhaps the better word to use. With that in mind the way thing are now, I'd say it's much easier to find a Kaepernick or Wilson than it is to find your Mannings, Brees, Bradys and the like. Hence the buttload of bust at the position.

Don't think that's true at all. There's a buttload of busts at the QB position because it's a damn difficult position to play even you have great things around you.

Finding a successful running QB is just as hard as finding a pocket passer. Case in point. RG-ME. I think that team is better with a traditional QB.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Don't think that's true at all. There's a buttload of busts at the QB position because it's a damn difficult position to play even you have great things around you.

Finding a successful running QB is just as hard as finding a pocket passer. Case in point. RG-ME. I think that team is better with a traditional QB.

Sure it's difficult to play. Especially, when teams continue to try to fit square pegs into round holes and/or lack creativity and try to maintain a traditional offense. Most team are looking for this pocket passer capable of standing in the pocket and winning games with his arm when those guys are few and far between.

RGIII got hurt, but he'd be fine if the team weren't trying to make a traditional QB out of him and let him play like he did as a rookie when he ran for 815 yards. But, they invested too much to get him so they cannot risk it.

 

[Athos]

RGIII got hurt, but he'd be fine if the team weren't trying to make a traditional QB out of him and let him play like he did as a rookie when he ran for 815 yards. But, they invested too much to get him so they cannot risk it.

Running QBs just don't last long and RG doesn't have the frame to take the beating. Hell, even Cam Newton is the biggest/best built out of the QBs that run, has taken his beatings and it has adversely effected his passing game....leading to an even worse Carolina O regardless of WRs and RBs.

Most team are looking for this pocket passer capable of standing in the pocket and winning games with his arm when those guys are few and far between.

And a quality QB that can run and pass are even fewer.

Wilson has been the exception, not the rule in QBs winning Super Bowls. Though, to his benefit, he had a top 5 D and one of the best RBs in the league.

The top 10 QBs in the league are still prototypical pocket passers. Newton and Kraperdink bring up the bottom of the top 15.

And of the running QBs, only Wilson is completing better than 61% of his passes. Not that there are really very many of them in the first place.

Wilson, Kraperdink, Newton, Smith, are really the only ones.

And back to Kraperdink, SF had surround him with a 10 D, a better than average O-Line, and playmakers like Gore, Hyde, Boldin, Johnson, spend a pick on Ellington, Crabtree, Lloyd, Spend a pick on Patton, and he still isn't that great.

I don't think SF's success is on him. It's on everything else around him that he's been surrounded with.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Oh, they won't last long if they don't learn to slide like Wilson does. That's on the player and the coaching staff. I'd also say that many get hurt trying to avoid running while attempting to fit into the traditional position model.

Fewer quality QBs that can run and pass? Depends upon one's definition of quality. Either way, the numbers are skewed due to the opportunities, or lack thereof, of players meeting or not meeting the traditional, uncreative criteria of most NFL teams. My guess is that the vast majority of NFL people never thought Denver could go 7-4 and win a playoff game with someone like Tebow.

BTW, no one said SF success is on Kaepernick.

 

[den-the-coach]

Oh, they won't last long if they don't learn to slide like Wilson does. That's on the player and the coaching staff. I'd also say that many get hurt trying to avoid running while attempting to fit into the traditional position model.

Fewer quality QBs that can run and pass? Depends upon one's definition of quality. Either way, the numbers are skewed due to the opportunities, or lack thereof, of players meeting or not meeting the traditional, uncreative criteria of most NFL teams. My guess is that the vast majority of NFL people never thought Denver could go 7-4 and win a playoff game with someone like Tebow.

BTW, no one said SF success is on Kaepernick.

However, I do think you can have both, don't you? I'm not communicating that you need to be able to run like Kapernick, but you should have the ability to keep the play alive and even be able to run for the occasional first down.

Andrew Luck is an excellent example, however, I understand there are not many Andrew Lucks, in fact, only one. The questions looms every individual is going to have his "area of opportunity" if you will, but IMO, what they offer from the neck matters most.

That's why I'm in Brett Hundley's camp, he did not pick the esteemed program to go to and that team does not have the best offensive line. He's extremely smart and runs like a deer and has great leadership qualities plus has played in a pro style attack and which makes him play under center.

There are no givens like Andrew Luck and the Rams need a Quarterback also right now there is nobody that is available that seems like the Rams could be a trade for so the draft is where they need to go. If Hill showcases the ability to win games down the stretch bring him back and Bradford at a reduced cost draft a Hundley and most would feel much better in 2015 than they did this year and as always, that's JMHO, FWIW's.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Surely you can have both. But those types of any quality are even harder to find. With this supposed run first, strong defense philosophy, I'd rather have the guy capable of adding 500-600 rushing yards to the equation. IMO, the turnovers would drop, the defense would get more rest, and the team would win more games.

I'm not saying you, but I can't help but to wonder if many have jumped on the Hundley bandwagon simply because of the desperation at the position and reality setting in on the Rams chances of getting Winston or Mariota. Sure, opinions can change during the year, but I found it interesting how some who weren't fans now really like him.

Anyway, if he is deemed to be as impressive as some here seem to believe, the Rams may not even have a shot at him, minus tanking the season or selling the farm to move up to get him. In fact, my guess is that after the Senior Bowl and offseason pre-draft process, the name to watch will probably be Bryce Petty.

BTW, I found this piece on Hundley interesting:
http://www.si.com/college-football/...igan-top-candidates?page=2&devicetype=default

The UCLA offensive line was criticized earlier this season for not protecting Hundley, who it turned out was holding the ball too long trying to prove his mettle to the NFL. It caused some of those linemen and others on the offense to lose self-confidence. Hundley’s nonchalant admission about his change of play sparked anger and bemusement about whether he still thinks he is more important than the team. It’s been a bizarre twist for Hundley, who isn’t viewed as an arrogant Johnny Manziel type.

He could have left for the NFL Draft after last season, but wisely stayed. In July, Bruins coach Jim Mora declared Hundley a first-round NFL pick. Now four months later there are questions not just about his suspect passing, but also his leadership and football acumen.

Hundley already wasn’t popular with his teammates entering this season, according to an NFL scout. That may be an even bigger problem for Hundley after this turbulent season. Many scouts believe he should remain at UCLA next year to try to salvage his damaged NFL stock.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Great QBs are true leaders and Winston is a leader. He is my number 1 QB in the draft. I usually shy away from guys with the character flags but not this time. This guy is mature and owns up to his mistakes. I think with the right coach (Fisher) that he can be a very good NFL QB.

I just wish that with any young QB the Rams get, Schotty and his complex playbook were not a part of it. Rookies usually need things simplified and then grow into their role. Throwing a 400 page playbook at them doesn't work.

I was all about getting rid of Sam but maybe getting a guy like Winston and letting him ride the pine for a year or more would be whats "Best for Business"

 

[Athos]

This guy is mature and owns up to his mistakes

Ummm....what? I don't think we're talking about the same guy. Maybe he makes up for his game day mistakes....he sure as fuck doesn't own up to his off the field BS.

And again....It'd be easy to root for the Rams to lose if we draft Winston. Won't be a fan anymore. Don't think we have anything to worry about though. I don't think Winston is his type of person.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Ummm....what? I don't think we're talking about the same guy. Maybe he makes up for his game day mistakes....he sure as freak doesn't own up to his off the field BS.

And again....It'd be easy to root for the Rams to lose if we draft Winston. Won't be a fan anymore. Don't think we have anything to worry about though. I don't think Winston is his type of person.

I am talking about his on the field mistakes. His teammates seem to really love him and respond to his leadership and he gives them a lot of credit. I am not advocating rape, but I admittedly don't know all of the details how it happened. Years ago a PSU rb was accused of rape and it ruined his college career. When things were finally hashed out in court a friend of the girls told them she planned it all to cash in on a big NFL contract....that never happened. As for the police cover up is that Winstons fault or the cops and coaches? I have heard varying stories about the crab legs. The most consistent one was about a booster paying for them. Who knows if that is true or another cover up. That is for the Rams coaches to try and discern.

I have given up on holding these college guys pasts against them because I have been proven wrong more than not lately. I didn't think Janoris would stay out of trouble. I thought Cam Newton would get in trouble, but I didn't think Blackmon would. That is why I let it up to the coaches to sort out just how bad these guys are or if they have too many problems to take on. From my end of it Winston looks like the best QB in college football. He was better last year and struggles a bit early in games but he picks up steam as the games go on and that is one measure that many people use to guage a great QB.

 

[Athos]

Blackmon's troubles late during his last season in college were well-documented. I just didn't want to believe them. I think he'd get himself righted. But then, it's always hard getting right an addiction to booze. Jags are regretting that pick.

JJ's issues were just weed and his love of women. Not big issues on the face of it, and it was a 2nd rounder spent.

I still jokingly call him Scam Newton, but his troubles were far from what Blackmon did and what Newton has done/accused of doing.

I'm just not a fan at all of burning not only a high pick, but likely multiple picks on a QB with as many redflags as Winston.

Rams cannot afford to make that kind of mistake. Can't afford to make it at all.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Blackmon's troubles late during his last season in college were well-documented. I just didn't want to believe them. I think he'd get himself righted. But then, it's always hard getting right an addiction to booze. Jags are regretting that pick.

JJ's issues were just weed and his love of women. Not big issues on the face of it, and it was a 2nd rounder spent.

I still jokingly call him Scam Newton, but his troubles were far from what Blackmon did and what Newton has done/accused of doing.

I'm just not a fan at all of burning not only a high pick, but likely multiple picks on a QB with as many redflags as Winston.

Rams cannot afford to make that kind of mistake. Can't afford to make it at all.

It all depends on what the package is. Right now the team is looking pretty complete, other than QB and maybe G/C. I don't hold out hope that Barrett suddenly becomes a top G/C in the league but maybe a trade up is in the offing this year since the defense is playing well, despite needing LBers. Maybe the Rams play more 4/2/5 schemes the rest of the way. If that is the case a free agent Guard or Center would fix the other main problem besides QB. Then an entire draft could be used for a QB.

I am still holding out hope that Conner Cook changes his mind and decides to come out this year. Otherwise I am not sold on Marriota as a pocket passer. Hundley's decision making worries me and I don't see a Jimmy Garapolo available this year. I still wish the Rams had nabbed him last year. He has a very quick release and toughed it out on a lesser team, so he was not a diva coming into the league.

 

[den-the-coach]

Hundley already wasn’t popular with his teammates entering this season, according to an NFL scout. That may be an even bigger problem for Hundley after this turbulent season. Many scouts believe he should remain at UCLA next year to try to salvage his damaged NFL stock.

Great points and I read that article as well interesting you bring up Bryce Petty and taking many shotgun snaps will bring into question can he run a pro style attack? I also agree that there might be a chance that Hundley could go earlier than the Rams draft, but there is always one QB that falls and the rest IMO might not have first round grades on them.

We know that the combination of Jeff Fisher and GM Les Snead tend to look at the SEC, however, some of the Quarterbacks coming out IMO are not that overwhelming. Rams could trade up or make a deal for Quarterback too (Nick Foles) but that most likely won't happen.

We've have so much time before now and then so many things could happen, but I just have a feeling Hundley will be high on the Rams list, just a feeling nothing more, but who knows? IMO when the dust settles if it's not Hundley I think Height will be important just because of the comments about Austin Davis not being able to see certain receivers.

 

[jrry32]

Blackmon's troubles late during his last season in college were well-documented. I just didn't want to believe them. I think he'd get himself righted. But then, it's always hard getting right an addiction to booze. Jags are regretting that pick.

JJ's issues were just weed and his love of women. Not big issues on the face of it, and it was a 2nd rounder spent.

I still jokingly call him Scam Newton, but his troubles were far from what Blackmon did and what Newton has done/accused of doing.

I'm just not a fan at all of burning not only a high pick, but likely multiple picks on a QB with as many redflags as Winston.

Rams cannot afford to make that kind of mistake. Can't afford to make it at all.

That's just it...they can afford to make that mistake now. The RGIII deal has given us a talented team. We'll likely have a veteran stop gap like Bradford or, at worst, Hill(or a player like Hill) to allow us to ease Winston in if necessary.

This team has enough talent to take that risk. Because if the red flags weren't there, where would Winston go? IMO, top 3-5 picks at worst. So if he does manage to fall to the 8 to 15 range...the Rams are in the sort of position to take that risk on a guy with off the charts talent.

This isn't a one way street. With the risk comes the reward. The reward on Winston is enough to make that risk easily justifiable. We took a risk on a risk/reward guy in Robert Quinn...we certainly aren't regretting it. That was with a much less talented team.

The thing about it is when you don't have a top 5 pick, sometimes you gotta be willing to take a gamble to get that premier talent. Some teams do, some teams don't. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But I feel like Winston happens to be a safer risk than a lot of first round risk/reward guys because the vast vast majority of his red flags are based on things he did off the field and outside of the locker-room.

 

[jrry32]

Surely you can have both. But those types of any quality are even harder to find. With this supposed run first, strong defense philosophy, I'd rather have the guy capable of adding 500-600 rushing yards to the equation. IMO, the turnovers would drop, the defense would get more rest, and the team would win more games.

I'm not saying you, but I can't help but to wonder if many have jumped on the Hundley bandwagon simply because of the desperation at the position and reality setting in on the Rams chances of getting Winston or Mariota. Sure, opinions can change during the year, but I found it interesting how some who weren't fans now really like him.

Anyway, if he is deemed to be as impressive as some here seem to believe, the Rams may not even have a shot at him, minus tanking the season or selling the farm to move up to get him. In fact, my guess is that after the Senior Bowl and offseason pre-draft process, the name to watch will probably be Bryce Petty.

BTW, I found this piece on Hundley interesting:
http://www.si.com/college-football/...igan-top-candidates?page=2&devicetype=default

The UCLA offensive line was criticized earlier this season for not protecting Hundley, who it turned out was holding the ball too long trying to prove his mettle to the NFL. It caused some of those linemen and others on the offense to lose self-confidence. Hundley’s nonchalant admission about his change of play sparked anger and bemusement about whether he still thinks he is more important than the team. It’s been a bizarre twist for Hundley, who isn’t viewed as an arrogant Johnny Manziel type.

He could have left for the NFL Draft after last season, but wisely stayed. In July, Bruins coach Jim Mora declared Hundley a first-round NFL pick. Now four months later there are questions not just about his suspect passing, but also his leadership and football acumen.

Hundley already wasn’t popular with his teammates entering this season, according to an NFL scout. That may be an even bigger problem for Hundley after this turbulent season. Many scouts believe he should remain at UCLA next year to try to salvage his damaged NFL stock.

I'm really struggling with Hundley. Going back and forth on him. I just wonder if I am trying to convince myself to like him because the Rams need a QB.

I definitely see the physical talent and I like his feet in the pocket. But there are things he does that would normally make me completely turned off by a QB prospect.

Plus, the admission about him changing his game to impress NFL scouts really does make me wonder if he thinks he's above the team as is stated in this article. He was putting his draft stock before the team's success.

 

[den-the-coach]

Plus, the admission about him changing his game to impress NFL scouts really does make me wonder if he thinks he's above the team as is stated in this article. He was putting his draft stock before the team's success.

BTW with Winston doing immature things that almost cost his team a victory because he was suspended is that not putting himself first over the team?

 

[jrry32]

BTW with Winston doing immature things that almost cost his team a victory because he was suspended is that not putting himself first over the team?

No. Because Winston didn't choose to be suspended. Especially considering what he was suspended for.