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I am in Winston...but I wouldn't go beyond our 1st, 2nd, and a future 1st. Even then, that would be pushing it.
Mariota, Winston or Hundley?
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I am in Winston...but I wouldn't go beyond our 1st, 2nd, and a future 1st. Even then, that would be pushing it.
FRO
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If he were clean off the field I would agree.
I don't even like Hundley with our first round pick.
ChrisW
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It seems the Rams might be too. They've scouted a ton of Florida State games this year.
Also in attendance at the Oregon vs. Oregon st game.
tahoe
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Win1-4Ned
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I wish the scout had hypothesized why he might have issues early in games. Does he think he's Zack Morris cool and not prepare for the games? Is his team, as a whole sluggish? Does the fact they haven't lost in two years give them a devil may care attitude going into their games, kind of like the GSOT with turnovers?
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Bryce Petty
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The success fades away because teams initially allow them to use their running talents and then try to get the to conform into traditional pocket passers which they never were in the first place.
When the offenses were designed to take advantage of RGIII and Kaepernick's gifts, they look very good to great. But, getting hurt or the fear of said QB getting hurt forces teams to change and screw players up.
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I feel like he adjusts well to what the defense is doing as the game goes on. He's a gunslinger. Makes some questionable decisions early and then seems to get a better handle for what the defense is doing as the game progresses.
I can't tell you why it is. Can tell you that he'd probably have half the interceptions he does if he had experienced WRs. But still, he does make too many mistakes in missing zone defenders in the short area. Needs to improve at that. I'll give a long winded break down at some point in this month.
ChrisW
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So you're still taking Winston over Mariota?
I was with you before, but Winston hasn't played as well this year, while Mariota just keeps chugging along.
Now is Mariota's success partly because of the system he runs? Probably. I don't watch enough college football to analyze prospects that closely. I just like pure football players.
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tahoe
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The problem with mariota is that he is a one read guy, his wrs are wide open because of the system. He hasnt had to to make the second or third read in his career and that is essential in the nfl. Winstons offense is much more like a pro system where he has to make multiple reads. Winston is by far the most pro ready. Mariota would be best served to sit a year but he probably won't.
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The Director's Report
Does Oregon's star have what it takes to make it in the NFL? Greg Gabriel
DECEMBER 11, 2014, 10:42 AM EST
I wrote up Mariota last year but figured he wouldn’t enter the 2014 draft, I didn’t go in depth with my evaluation. I said then that I felt it was in Mariota’s best interest to return to school for at least another year.
Over the course of the last two seasons I have studied 9 games and I feel I have a fairly good handle of his talent level and skill set.
When you think of a QB who plays at Oregon, you would think that with such a fast paced, high scoring offense that they throw the ball a high percentage of the time. That’s not the case. Over the last two seasons, Oregon runs the ball close to 60% of the time. This season, they ran the ball 566 times and passed 400. The ratio was similar in 2013.
Mariota has thrown for 38 touchdowns and two interceptions this season.
Mariota has excellent quarterback size, He is listed as being 6040 – 219, but he may be more like 6034. He has a well-proportioned, long frame, and he is extremely athletic. He is listed as having been timed at 4.48, and while he is fast, I don’t see 4.48 play speed. He is more in the 4.55 range. Still, he has excellent change of direction and body control.
Mariota’s stats are excellent. This year he has completed 254 of 372 passes (68%) for 3783 yards, and he has thrown 38 touchdowns to just two interceptions. His numbers last year were similar, but his completion percentage was around 63%. He has rushed for 669 yards this year and 14 touchdowns. He plays in a spread offense and almost never takes snaps from under center. The offense is a zone-option type offense that uses the run to set up the pass. As a runner, he is excellent, and with his size, speed, and open field run instincts, few, if any, quarterbacks can match him. With his quick feet and athleticism, he can keep plays alive and extend them with his feet. In saying that, his feel for pass rushers needs to improve. I charted 2.5 games and he got sacked 10 times in those games. This season, he has been sacked an astonishing 29 times!
It’s not easy to get a good read on Marcus as a passer. A good majority of his passes are quick bubble screens, running back screens, swings and slants. These are very high percentage throws, and more often than not, he is throwing to his first read. In most cases, he throws to his first or second read, and in any given game, there are only a few throws where he will go through three reads and come back to his first or second. While he has shown he can do it, it rarely happens in that offense.
Mariota has a bit of a mechanical overhand delivery. His release quickness is average. He is not the type to “see it” and get the ball out of his hand quickly. It’s more deliberate. His footwork is average, and at times, gets a bit flat-footed when he makes deeper throws.
While his completion percentage is high, his ball placement is, again, average. Receivers often have to make an adjustment in order to make the catch. In the 2.5 games I charted, he threw only five passes that I would consider pinpoint NFL-tier throws where he had a small window to complete the pass. Most of his throws are to wide open receivers, and ball placement is average and surely not consistent.
Where Mariota struggles is with downfield throws. After 15 yards his accuracy really drops. Again in the games charted, he was 11 of 31 on throws 15 yards and longer. Granted, he has a number of completions for high yardage, but often, those are short passes that turn into long gains because of the run after catch skills of the receiver.
His deep throw accuracy was best in the Oregon State game. He had some excellent throws in that game. Mariota excels in his decision making. He doesn’t force throws and does not throw interceptions. He has thrown only six interceptions in the last two years, a stat second to none. He also wins games, and the bottom line is, that’s the purpose of playing the game.
With a quarterback, evaluating tape is only half of the equation. To do a thorough job, a school call has to be made where a scout can talk to coaches and support staff about the player. When evaluating a quarterback, the intangibles are at least half of the equation. Is he a leader? Does he want to be a great player? What are his work habits? How does he learn? All of those questions and more have to be answered.
From a physical viewpoint, Mariota is talented, but still far away from being a finished product. He is a work in progress and has mechanical and accuracy flaws that need to be corrected. Can they be fixed? Of course, but history tells us that quarterbacks who struggle with accuracy in college don’t get better in the NFL.
The quarterback class this year is not strong. Because of that, Mariota will get drafted high. He will get every opportunity to succeed, and I hope he does. In saying that, he may want to consider doing himself a favor by returning to Oregon and playing another year.
Follow Greg on Twitter @greggabe
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Prospect-Focus-Marcus-Mariota.html
Does Oregon's star have what it takes to make it in the NFL? Greg Gabriel
DECEMBER 11, 2014, 10:42 AM EST
I wrote up Mariota last year but figured he wouldn’t enter the 2014 draft, I didn’t go in depth with my evaluation. I said then that I felt it was in Mariota’s best interest to return to school for at least another year.
Over the course of the last two seasons I have studied 9 games and I feel I have a fairly good handle of his talent level and skill set.
When you think of a QB who plays at Oregon, you would think that with such a fast paced, high scoring offense that they throw the ball a high percentage of the time. That’s not the case. Over the last two seasons, Oregon runs the ball close to 60% of the time. This season, they ran the ball 566 times and passed 400. The ratio was similar in 2013.
Mariota has thrown for 38 touchdowns and two interceptions this season.
Mariota has excellent quarterback size, He is listed as being 6040 – 219, but he may be more like 6034. He has a well-proportioned, long frame, and he is extremely athletic. He is listed as having been timed at 4.48, and while he is fast, I don’t see 4.48 play speed. He is more in the 4.55 range. Still, he has excellent change of direction and body control.
Mariota’s stats are excellent. This year he has completed 254 of 372 passes (68%) for 3783 yards, and he has thrown 38 touchdowns to just two interceptions. His numbers last year were similar, but his completion percentage was around 63%. He has rushed for 669 yards this year and 14 touchdowns. He plays in a spread offense and almost never takes snaps from under center. The offense is a zone-option type offense that uses the run to set up the pass. As a runner, he is excellent, and with his size, speed, and open field run instincts, few, if any, quarterbacks can match him. With his quick feet and athleticism, he can keep plays alive and extend them with his feet. In saying that, his feel for pass rushers needs to improve. I charted 2.5 games and he got sacked 10 times in those games. This season, he has been sacked an astonishing 29 times!
It’s not easy to get a good read on Marcus as a passer. A good majority of his passes are quick bubble screens, running back screens, swings and slants. These are very high percentage throws, and more often than not, he is throwing to his first read. In most cases, he throws to his first or second read, and in any given game, there are only a few throws where he will go through three reads and come back to his first or second. While he has shown he can do it, it rarely happens in that offense.
Mariota has a bit of a mechanical overhand delivery. His release quickness is average. He is not the type to “see it” and get the ball out of his hand quickly. It’s more deliberate. His footwork is average, and at times, gets a bit flat-footed when he makes deeper throws.
While his completion percentage is high, his ball placement is, again, average. Receivers often have to make an adjustment in order to make the catch. In the 2.5 games I charted, he threw only five passes that I would consider pinpoint NFL-tier throws where he had a small window to complete the pass. Most of his throws are to wide open receivers, and ball placement is average and surely not consistent.
Where Mariota struggles is with downfield throws. After 15 yards his accuracy really drops. Again in the games charted, he was 11 of 31 on throws 15 yards and longer. Granted, he has a number of completions for high yardage, but often, those are short passes that turn into long gains because of the run after catch skills of the receiver.
His deep throw accuracy was best in the Oregon State game. He had some excellent throws in that game. Mariota excels in his decision making. He doesn’t force throws and does not throw interceptions. He has thrown only six interceptions in the last two years, a stat second to none. He also wins games, and the bottom line is, that’s the purpose of playing the game.
With a quarterback, evaluating tape is only half of the equation. To do a thorough job, a school call has to be made where a scout can talk to coaches and support staff about the player. When evaluating a quarterback, the intangibles are at least half of the equation. Is he a leader? Does he want to be a great player? What are his work habits? How does he learn? All of those questions and more have to be answered.
From a physical viewpoint, Mariota is talented, but still far away from being a finished product. He is a work in progress and has mechanical and accuracy flaws that need to be corrected. Can they be fixed? Of course, but history tells us that quarterbacks who struggle with accuracy in college don’t get better in the NFL.
The quarterback class this year is not strong. Because of that, Mariota will get drafted high. He will get every opportunity to succeed, and I hope he does. In saying that, he may want to consider doing himself a favor by returning to Oregon and playing another year.
Follow Greg on Twitter @greggabe
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Prospect-Focus-Marcus-Mariota.html
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The Director's Report
Greg Gabriel breaks down one of the top QB prospects. Greg Gabriel
DECEMBER 12, 2014, 11:00 AM EST
In mid-August, I wrote some preseason preview articles on some of the top players going into the college season. Included in one of those articles was a piece on Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston.
In August and now I believe Jameis Winston is a very talented football player. In saying that, as talented as he is, he has improved in some areas and regressed in others. Before we talk about those areas, let’s talk about some of the great natural traits that Winston possesses.
US PRESSWIREAre Winston's off-field issues cause for concern at the next level?
Jameis is a third-year sophomore and a two-year starter. He redshirted as a true freshman in 2012 while Florida State had E.J. Manuel as its quarterback. He became the starter in 2013 and led Florida State to the National Championship as well winning the Heisman Trophy.
He has outstanding size for the position, standing at about 6040 – 235. He has a thick frame to go along with excellent overall strength and athleticism. While he is by no means a burner, he is plenty fast with an estimated speed in the low 4.6’s. He also has quick feet to go along with very good change of direction and body control. His overall athleticism is similar to Cam Newton’s but he is just not quite as fast as Newton was coming out.
Florida State plays from mostly a spread offense with some snaps from under center. They run and pass from both formations. Winston seems to have a good command of the offense and shows the ability to change plays and protections at the line of scrimmage. He also seems to be a strong leader on the field. Winston can set up quickly from both under center and in the spread. When he takes snaps while in the spread he still drops back some. He has good form and generally stays in balance. He has good mechanics to go along with a quick release. He usually does a good job setting his feet before he throws and seldom over strides into the throw.
While he has a very strong arm, he doesn’t consistently drive the ball to his receivers. I have seen a number of plays where he floats the ball. He shows the ability to go through a three man progression and he also can go from a primary receiver to a secondary receiver and back to the primary.
He has shown the ability to make all the throws necessary to play in the NFL. He can throw with touch when he has to and, generally, has shown good accuracy and ball placement. When he is on, he is excellent. He can throw from the pocket or on the run and has the ability to extend and make plays with his feet. He has a good feel for pass rushers, and when he decides to run, he has very good run instincts to go along with power.
When you look at his stats and study game tape, you can see where he has regressed some from his first year as a starter. In 2013 he completed 257 of 384 passes for 4057 yards. His completion percentage was 67% and he threw 40 touchdowns to 10 interceptions. This year he completed 256 of 422 throws for 3559 yards only 24 touchdowns and 17 interceptions.
Winston is taking more chances this year and forcing throws he never did a year ago. From mid-season on this year he has struggled. In a six game span from the Notre Dame game through the Florida game, he threw 12 interceptions. Often, these throws were into double and even triple coverage.
Despite his poor decision making, he has consistently been able to bring his team back form deficits (some huge) and win games. He has not lost a game since he has been a starter. On the field, Winston is very competitive and wants to win. I also think that many of his decision making flaws can be corrected with good coaching.
While Winston has the physical traits to become a very good NFL quarterback, it’s the intangibles that are worrisome. His off-field decision making has been poor to say the least, and it’s not just one instance, it’s been several. Within the next few days, we will get the results of Winston’s student conduct hearing and depending on the results, that could bring about other issues.
By the nature of the position, the quarterback is supposed to be the leader and face of the franchise. Winston’s off-field actions have given clubs concern as to whether or not he can perform that role. As good as he is on the field, he is extremely immature off, and there is not a doubt in my mind that his off-field issues have brought about the regression in his play this year.
I’ve been around the NFL for most of my adult life and I know that it only takes one team to “love you”. While I wouldn’t draft Winston in any round, there will be a few clubs that will take the risk and be willing to draft him high. Come draft day, it will be a classic “risk/reward” type selection. It will be a few years before we know the results.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Prospect-Focus-Jameis-Winston.html
Greg Gabriel breaks down one of the top QB prospects. Greg Gabriel
DECEMBER 12, 2014, 11:00 AM EST
In mid-August, I wrote some preseason preview articles on some of the top players going into the college season. Included in one of those articles was a piece on Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston.
In August and now I believe Jameis Winston is a very talented football player. In saying that, as talented as he is, he has improved in some areas and regressed in others. Before we talk about those areas, let’s talk about some of the great natural traits that Winston possesses.
US PRESSWIREAre Winston's off-field issues cause for concern at the next level?
Jameis is a third-year sophomore and a two-year starter. He redshirted as a true freshman in 2012 while Florida State had E.J. Manuel as its quarterback. He became the starter in 2013 and led Florida State to the National Championship as well winning the Heisman Trophy.
He has outstanding size for the position, standing at about 6040 – 235. He has a thick frame to go along with excellent overall strength and athleticism. While he is by no means a burner, he is plenty fast with an estimated speed in the low 4.6’s. He also has quick feet to go along with very good change of direction and body control. His overall athleticism is similar to Cam Newton’s but he is just not quite as fast as Newton was coming out.
Florida State plays from mostly a spread offense with some snaps from under center. They run and pass from both formations. Winston seems to have a good command of the offense and shows the ability to change plays and protections at the line of scrimmage. He also seems to be a strong leader on the field. Winston can set up quickly from both under center and in the spread. When he takes snaps while in the spread he still drops back some. He has good form and generally stays in balance. He has good mechanics to go along with a quick release. He usually does a good job setting his feet before he throws and seldom over strides into the throw.
While he has a very strong arm, he doesn’t consistently drive the ball to his receivers. I have seen a number of plays where he floats the ball. He shows the ability to go through a three man progression and he also can go from a primary receiver to a secondary receiver and back to the primary.
He has shown the ability to make all the throws necessary to play in the NFL. He can throw with touch when he has to and, generally, has shown good accuracy and ball placement. When he is on, he is excellent. He can throw from the pocket or on the run and has the ability to extend and make plays with his feet. He has a good feel for pass rushers, and when he decides to run, he has very good run instincts to go along with power.
When you look at his stats and study game tape, you can see where he has regressed some from his first year as a starter. In 2013 he completed 257 of 384 passes for 4057 yards. His completion percentage was 67% and he threw 40 touchdowns to 10 interceptions. This year he completed 256 of 422 throws for 3559 yards only 24 touchdowns and 17 interceptions.
Winston is taking more chances this year and forcing throws he never did a year ago. From mid-season on this year he has struggled. In a six game span from the Notre Dame game through the Florida game, he threw 12 interceptions. Often, these throws were into double and even triple coverage.
Despite his poor decision making, he has consistently been able to bring his team back form deficits (some huge) and win games. He has not lost a game since he has been a starter. On the field, Winston is very competitive and wants to win. I also think that many of his decision making flaws can be corrected with good coaching.
While Winston has the physical traits to become a very good NFL quarterback, it’s the intangibles that are worrisome. His off-field decision making has been poor to say the least, and it’s not just one instance, it’s been several. Within the next few days, we will get the results of Winston’s student conduct hearing and depending on the results, that could bring about other issues.
By the nature of the position, the quarterback is supposed to be the leader and face of the franchise. Winston’s off-field actions have given clubs concern as to whether or not he can perform that role. As good as he is on the field, he is extremely immature off, and there is not a doubt in my mind that his off-field issues have brought about the regression in his play this year.
I’ve been around the NFL for most of my adult life and I know that it only takes one team to “love you”. While I wouldn’t draft Winston in any round, there will be a few clubs that will take the risk and be willing to draft him high. Come draft day, it will be a classic “risk/reward” type selection. It will be a few years before we know the results.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Prospect-Focus-Jameis-Winston.html
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The more I read about Connor Cook the more I think he could be a possibility for the Rams. Of course, this depends on if he declares, if Mariota and Winston (I know, a lot of Rams fans don't want him) are already gone and what pick the Rams end up with in the 1st Round. From what I have read, Cook might end up reconsidering his decision to go back to school for his senior year and if he does he might just be that QB that could start the season behind Bradford and be groomed for the future (And, possibly sooner if Bradford can't stay healthy). Cook might be a slight reach for the Rams depending on where they draft but I personally think they have to get a better backup (And, possible replacement) to Bradford before next season starts.
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Here's my personal opinion based on what I see ON THE FIELD because that's what I can evaluate. Some will scoff at it but it is what it is. I'm going to keep this short. I'll go into more detail later.
Top 3 QBs
1. Jameis Winston -> Brett Favre (I think Big Ben, who was my original comparison, does a much better job of protecting the ball)
Cannon for an arm
Can fit the ball into impossible windows
Very good athlete, adept at improvising, and difficult to sack
Risk taker that will force the ball into coverage...needs to protect the ball better
Vocal leader that will get onto teammates
Really emotional guy that clearly loves football
Great feel for pressure, great eye discipline, and good understanding/instincts of how to move to find space and a throwing lane...although will backpedal at times
Needs to be more aware of zone defenders underneath
Needs to improve his use of his eyes to manipulate coverage
Must improve consistency with his lower body mechanics and core rotation
Immature
2. Marcus Mariota -> More Athletic Alex Smith
Great athleticism
Good height but a tad thin (very similar size to Smith)
Great decision maker...but to the point of being too conservative
Takes unnecessary sacks because he holds onto the ball rather than forcing passes
Doesn't feel the pass rush as well as he should and relies too much on his legs to buy time
Accuracy is good but it's not great or elite...not a precision thrower
Good but not great arm strength
Rarely reads more than half the field and tends to throw to one of his first two reads or takes off
Can manipulate coverage with his eyes
Not an emotional guy, very calm and collected...doesn't seem to be a vocal leader
3. Brett Hundley -> Jason Campbell
Strong arm and great athleticism
Good size with a thick frame
Can make timing throws and flashes precision but is not consistent
Poor feel for pressure, holds the ball too long, poor eye discipline
Takes a lot of unnecessary sacks
Competitive guy
Does not seem like a leader on the field
Inconsistent accuracy
Too reliant on his legs
That's just what I've seen thus far. Things might change. And I'm sure some will scoff at the comparisons but I'm always going to give it to you straight.
Top 3 QBs
1. Jameis Winston -> Brett Favre (I think Big Ben, who was my original comparison, does a much better job of protecting the ball)
Cannon for an arm
Can fit the ball into impossible windows
Very good athlete, adept at improvising, and difficult to sack
Risk taker that will force the ball into coverage...needs to protect the ball better
Vocal leader that will get onto teammates
Really emotional guy that clearly loves football
Great feel for pressure, great eye discipline, and good understanding/instincts of how to move to find space and a throwing lane...although will backpedal at times
Needs to be more aware of zone defenders underneath
Needs to improve his use of his eyes to manipulate coverage
Must improve consistency with his lower body mechanics and core rotation
Immature
2. Marcus Mariota -> More Athletic Alex Smith
Great athleticism
Good height but a tad thin (very similar size to Smith)
Great decision maker...but to the point of being too conservative
Takes unnecessary sacks because he holds onto the ball rather than forcing passes
Doesn't feel the pass rush as well as he should and relies too much on his legs to buy time
Accuracy is good but it's not great or elite...not a precision thrower
Good but not great arm strength
Rarely reads more than half the field and tends to throw to one of his first two reads or takes off
Can manipulate coverage with his eyes
Not an emotional guy, very calm and collected...doesn't seem to be a vocal leader
3. Brett Hundley -> Jason Campbell
Strong arm and great athleticism
Good size with a thick frame
Can make timing throws and flashes precision but is not consistent
Poor feel for pressure, holds the ball too long, poor eye discipline
Takes a lot of unnecessary sacks
Competitive guy
Does not seem like a leader on the field
Inconsistent accuracy
Too reliant on his legs
That's just what I've seen thus far. Things might change. And I'm sure some will scoff at the comparisons but I'm always going to give it to you straight.