Manziel “Instant Quarterback Controversy” for Rams

[Mojo Ram]

He was last year. He's a FA, I think.

I just checked. He's still on Green Bay's roster. He's 34 yrs old. IDK why but i thought he'd be older than that.

 

[FRO]

Look at the picks immediately after the Rams picked...

Marcus Stroud (3x pro bowler)
Nate Clements (pro bowler)
Reggie Wayne (6x pro bowler)

Our picks .... zip.

Sounds like most Rams drafts.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I don't think it is wise to waste a first round pick on a backup....at any position, unless he is a projected starter in a year or two, or if his position is one that is often requiring replacement, like Corner. But even then a team should be in pretty good position roster wise to afford such luxuries.

 

[moklerman]

Not that I want to start another Martz back and forth, but I wonder just how much input he had in a draft where the Rams take 5 defensive guys with their first 5 picks with guys like Santana Moss, Reggie Wayne, Deuce McCallister all on the board?

 

[Mojo Ram]

Look at the picks immediately after the Rams picked...

Marcus Stroud (3x pro bowler)
Nate Clements (pro bowler)
Reggie Wayne (6x pro bowler)

Our picks .... zip.

Nice.
Good God can you imagine Warner throwing to Bruce, Holt, Az, Proehl, Faulk and Wayne?
Stroud would've kept Jimmy Kennedy out of St Louis. Geezus we could keep going on and on about the epic draft failures.

 

[RmsLegends]

We've been having this discussion lately around here so I'll put it to you to give an example or even a few examples of QB's who've benefited from having a 1st round pick or expensive FA brought in to "push" them. I wasn't able to come up with one myself but I keep getting told it's a really good way to approach the QB situation.

Off the top of my head one I can think of that worked out great for both QB's is Brees and Rivers. Brees played better after Rivers was drafted and when Brees went down SD decided to make a incentive ladden offer to Brees he said no and went to NO so I would say that first round pick of Rivers was a great move by SD and even enhanced the NFL as a whole.

 

[moklerman]

Off the top of my head one I can think of that worked out great for both QB's is Brees and Rivers. Brees played better after Rivers was drafted and when Brees went down SD decided to make a incentive ladden offer to Brees he said no and went to NO so I would say that first round pick of Rivers was a great move by SD and even enhanced the NFL as a whole.

I guess that's one way to look at it. I see it as Brees just acclimating to the NFL and the light going on in year 3 like it does for so many QB's and then, SD getting absolutely nothing in return for him. SD didn't hedge their bet as is being suggested, they pissed off Brees by not giving him a realistic contract offer and had to go with Rivers instead. But instead of having a damn good QB coming from the 2nd round and the flexibility to build up the rest of their team, they drafted a QB #4 overall when they didn't have to.

Ultimately, it wasn't their plan to "push" Brees, they had already decided to move on from Brees. They franchised him his last year there and he played himself into a lucrative contract elsewhere and SD got nothing for him.

All of which doesn't really fit with what is being suggested the Rams should do.

 

[RmsLegends]

You're kind of all over the place here. One point I don't agree with though, your opinion that Bradford has not gotten it done. I think he has done relatively well. He doesn't cost the Rams games with stupid plays and he has been productive as circumstances have improved.

Much of what you're saying doesn't seem to be supported in context of the Rams though. Other QB's have not come in and outproduced Bradford at his position. The team's record may have been similar in cases but individual production has not. So, just arbitrarily replacing Bradford because he plays QB and the general perception is to hold the QB position responsible for a team's wins and losses does not seem like a sound approach to me.

No not at all ya asked thus......................But there is perception and then there's reality. I think you were being given credit for the latter. So, if you know better than to assign all responsibility to one player why bring it up in a discussion/comparison?..................So I was answering your question why would I assign responsibility and so I was pointing out how doing such has effected the culture we live in.

I have never said replace Bradford in any of my statements I have been merely playing devils advocate to statements I have read. I did point out what is already known and obvious that Bradford to date has not gotten it done and I made assessment by his known body of work, but however it was no revelation as it is already obvious so I stated the known. So in playing devil's advocate I was attempting to perhaps cause a wider questioning of ok why is this or what could the organization do, but by your response I seem to have fallen short of what my intended purpose was.

 

[jrry32]

You're moving the goal-posts, Mokler. You can't ask for an example and then disregard the example when it meets your criteria based on your own theory for the cause.

Regardless, I'm not worried about it. Whatever happens, happens. As long as they don't take Manziel at #2.

 

[moklerman]

No not at all ya asked thus......................But there is perception and then there's reality. I think you were being given credit for the latter. So, if you know better than to assign all responsibility to one player why bring it up in a discussion/comparison?..................So I was answering your question why would I assign responsibility and so I was pointing out how doing such has effected the culture we live in.

I have never said replace Bradford in any of my statements I have been merely playing devils advocate to statements I have read. I did point out what is already known and obvious that Bradford to date has not gotten it done and I made assessment by his known body of work, but however it was no revelation as it is already obvious so I stated the known. So in playing devil's advocate I was attempting to perhaps cause a wider questioning of ok why is this or what could the organization do, but by your response I seem to have fallen short of what my intended purpose was.

I appreciate the effort but I'd rather not wander into the realm of the existential. You're going to go a little too deep for me if we start trying analyze society and it's impact on football conversations. I concede that the perception about a QB's responsibility for wins and losses is inaccurate and I think we agree on that point. So, let's keep things relegated to what we think.

So, are you saying that you're opinion is that Sam hasn't gotten it done and that "he" hasn't won games or that that is just the perception of anonymous fans?

 

[moklerman]

You're moving the goal-posts, Mokler. You can't ask for an example and then disregard the example when it meets your criteria based on your own theory for the cause.

Regardless, I'm not worried about it. Whatever happens, happens. As long as they don't take Manziel at #2.

I didn't disregard the example, I just didn't agree with it. And gave reasons why. Drafting Rivers was more coincidence and luck than it was a plan to benefit the team as a contingency and push Brees to be better. It was Schottenheimer's third year and "his" team was coming into form. He had to overcome the 1-15 and 5-11 teams of Mike Riley and the Ryan Leaf pick. LT was an instant success but it took some time for Brees and his 4th year(3rd year starting) Gates also came into his own in his 2nd year. A lot just started coming together and Brees had a solid year. But not because Rivers was drafted.

Brees didn't have a fluke spike in his production because he felt threatened or because he was playing for his next contract. He had a year of progression and ultimately went on to a lot bigger years and lot bigger success.

It doesn't work as an example.

 

[Sum1]

You're moving the goal-posts, Mokler. You can't ask for an example and then disregard the example when it meets your criteria based on your own theory for the cause.

Regardless, I'm not worried about it. Whatever happens, happens. As long as they don't take Manziel at #2.

So if they take Manziel at 2 it doesn't happen?

 

[RmsLegends]

I appreciate the effort but I'd rather not wander into the realm of the existential. You're going to go a little too deep for me if we start trying analyze society and it's impact on football conversations. I concede that the perception about a QB's responsibility for wins and losses is inaccurate and I think we agree on that point. So, let's keep things relegated to what we think.

So, are you saying that you're opinion is that Sam hasn't gotten it done and that "he" hasn't won games or that that is just the perception of anonymous fans?

Personally for me Bradford is still a question mark does he have the athletic ability to play the position I believe so have we seen the best he can do, I have no clue. Are there other attributes that must be taken into account as well as just physical ability in order for him to excel I think so. Do I find him to be special or elite so far to date no. Is this all his fault I don't believe so. Has he progressed I do believe he has, but how much is that due to he has been in the league for four years now? Do I hope this year he just breaks out and is the answer I sure hope he does. However that is a dilemma as well as since I find myself hoping it means I have no conviction of belief that he will. So can hope pay off in the long run I sure like to think so otherwise what good is it to hope. Can we miss a opportunity in the meantime while we are hoping that is very possible. An when I say while we are hoping I mean it in a general sense as some are convinced he is our future. So for me I still have questions as once again it is to me to date if ya exclude his sophomore year he has proven to be a consistent 7/9 (7/9, 7/8/1, 3/4) QB. So my personal thoughts, he is still a question mark so I think it is time we place a contingency plan in place in case it don't work out. As so far we have had all our eggs in one basket.

 

[moklerman]

I'm not sure how "he" is a 7-9 QB with everything else we've tried to establish with semantics. There are too many other shortcomings on this team and in recent years to clearly illustrate what Bradford can be so I guess in a way I can agree that there are still questions surrounding him.

 

[A55VA6]

I'm not sure how "he" is a 7-9 QB with everything else we've tried to establish with semantics. There are too many other shortcomings on this team and in recent years to clearly illustrate what Bradford can be so I guess in a way I can agree that there are still questions surrounding him.

I love defending Sam Bradford because I like the guy and he's talented.. but I wonder if we had Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, etc... would we be more than a 7-9 team? A playoff team? I think we would. So it circles back to Bradford, other than not being healthy what is Sam doing wrong? Because I saw Tom Brady do quite a bit with not much around him last year.

 

[jjab360]

I love defending Sam Bradford because I like the guy and he's talented.. but I wonder if we had Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, etc... would we be more than a 7-9 team? A playoff team? I think we would. So it circles back to Bradford, other than not being healthy what is Sam doing wrong? Because I saw Tom Brady do quite a bit with not much around him last year.

Tom Brady weeks 1-7:
55% CMP, 5.99 ypa
8 TDs, 5 Ints

Sam Bradford weeks 1-7:
61% CMP, 6.44 ypa
14 TDs, 4 Ints

:eek:

 

[jjab360]

Why are we even constantly comparing Bradford to one of the greatest QBs of all time, anyway? Tom Brady didn't play anything like Tom Brady today when he was Sam's age. Not to mention he's always had that bulletproof offensive line in front of him, Belichick's always made sure of that.

 

[The Rammer]

Tom Brady weeks 1-7:
55% CMP, 5.99 ypa
8 TDs, 5 Ints

Sam Bradford weeks 1-7:
61% CMP, 6.44 ypa
14 TDs, 4 Ints

:eek:

Those are Bullshit stats and you know it!

Sam bradford couldn't dare be better than Tom Brady... Even in picking up women... (see Gisselle)

 

[The Rammer]

Why are we even constantly comparing Bradford to one of the greatest QBs of all time, anyway? Tom Brady didn't play anything like Tom Brady today when he was Sam's age. Not to mention he's always had that bulletproof offensive line in front of him, Belichick's always made sure of that.

God people want watkins... I want a damn good offensive line so Sam doesn't get Bulgeritis this year!

 

[kurtfaulk]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my reasoning had very little to do with Bradford being pushed. All I ever wanted was a better contingency plan than Feeley, Clemens, Lewis, Davis, or Hill.

sorry but drafting a qb at the top of the 1st round isn't a contingency plan, it's a change in direction for the team. Nothing anyone says can change that fact.

.