Manziel “Instant Quarterback Controversy” for Rams

[Sum1]

The rumors that have jumped up over the past couple days have been extraordinary in regard to Manziel. If you ask me the Rams are at the center of this because it is all by design. Chris Mortensen is the one making the claims that the Rams interest in Manziel is real...not a local reporter (which contrary to popular opinion, usually the local media is pretty good at reading what the team is thinking)...and not even Jeff Fisher's good buddy Michael Silver.

If JT or Silver had said the Rams have genuine interest in Manziel at 2, I'd believe it. Mortensen? Not so much.

Now you are starting to hear (NFL XM) a bunch of rumors about other teams that are now interested in Manziel...including one GM that wants to trade to the top to ensure he gets his guy.

All of this just after the Rams "work out Manziel".

 

[FRO]

Sam has never had any competition at the position he has been anointed since day one and the only controversy has been his winless record and going into year 5 of his contract he still is a question mark.

So you use a team stat to discredit Sam. Did you know that the team Bradford was drafted to won 6 games total the three years prior to his arrival? Are you still wanting to pin wins and losses on one guy?

 

[FRO]

View attachment 1751 It's all smoke. It will clear up in 5 Sean Landetta days... thank God!

Hope you are right about it being smoke. If we are picking a first round QB give me Bortles and Bridgewater.

 

[-X-]

If we are picking a first round QB give me Bortles and Bridgewater.

You got one of those BOGO coupons?

 

[RhodyRams]

I was really just trying to '"defuse the situation" with my previous post

 

[RmsLegends]

So you use a team stat to discredit Sam. Did you know that the team Bradford was drafted to won 6 games total the three years prior to his arrival? Are you still wanting to pin wins and losses on one guy?

I would think I have been fair in my assessment of why there is controversy with Sam as if he had a season or two of a winning record under his belt I doubt there would be the controversy there is concerning him. However I will use a team stat for a team sport 2010 (7/9)........2011 (1/9).........2012 (7/8/1)......2013 (3/4). See not a winning record in the bunch so I think I can state in all fairness that his controversy comes from a lack of a winning record or if he had posted a winning record in the same time period we would not see the controversy concerning him.

2013 was a shame as he when he exited had still put forth the same type of record as he had been doing in other words subpar and not a winning record. However there were games yet to be played so can we have positive assurance of what the outcome would have been other than using speculation and we coulda or we shoulda or we woulda, but the fact is since the games were not played by him the true outcome can never been known. So I find it easy to also fairly say he is still a question mark as we have yet to post a winning season under him and his best chance for one was snapped short last year so absent the evidence of it actually being done, I am left to speculate what he might have done. If I use speculation though I don't have a true metric to base my statement upon and it becomes opinion rather than a assessment of the situation.

So I think I gave a fair assessment as to why the controversy is around Sam, because he has yet to produce a winning record. Now do I blame him alone for the lack of that heck no as it is a team sport so it falls upon the team. However since it is a team sport he bears as much responsibility for the wins as well as the losses as every member on the team does as well as the coaching and front office.

I also said that Sam has had no competition and I think is also a fair assessment as if he has I have no clue who it could have been?

 

[moklerman]

So, you think the Colts should draft some competition for Luck? Maybe that'll force him to quit throwing so many interceptions.

 

[FRO]

I still don't understand how the team win/loss record falls on one player.

 

[RmsLegends]

So, you think the Colts should draft some competition for Luck? Maybe that'll force him to quit throwing so many interceptions.

Not sure if the question is for me or someone else since I posted last? So I will go ahead and take a stab at it. What the Colts decide to do I reckon I really care not as I am not a fan of their team, but concerning Luck, he threw 18 picks his rookie year for INT % of 2.9, which I would say is what ya might figure ya will get from a rookie last year he threw 9 for a INT % of 1.6. So if they are unhappy about that and they feel the need to draft him some competition then I say more power to them.

However since I am a Rams fan I did decide to look at Sam's % since ya brought up the question and in his full two years starting he threw 15 in his rookie year for a % of 2.5 an in his only other full year 2012 he threw 13 for a % of 2.4............He had better showings in 2011 when he only played in 10 games and his % was 1.7 and of course last year his % was 1.5 in 7 games.

So if the Colts find his "so many interceptions" bothersome and problamatic to why they can't seem to get over a 11/5 hump then I would assume that is their choice.

Personally I just hope we do what we need to so we can have a winning product on the field.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Competition may make things better, but controversy doesn't. I think this would be full fledge controversy. Stuff that can divide locker rooms.

i think you need to put your sarcasm glasses on.

.

 

[moklerman]

I was thinking more about the 7 interceptions in 2 games last post season. But if you look at Luck's career so far, it's very similar to Bradford's first two full seasons and there is absolutely no talk of trying to make Luck better by drafting a QB in the first round just in case.

If one thinks that competition will bring out more from Bradford that's just a nice way of saying that he isn't trying hard enough or doing everything that he can. Which is ludicrous IMO. I don't think his desire or work ethic is in question at all.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I would think I have been fair in my assessment of why there is controversy with Sam

there's controversy with sam? where? he's always been the rams' guy and they have never made a move to suggest otherwise.

.

 

[RmsLegends]

I still don't understand how the team win/loss record falls on one player.

The QB will always shoulder a burden for the win loss record by virtue of what it means to be the QB. He and another player alone has a unique situation on offense. An outside of a occasional gadget play the QB and the center are the only ones on offense who touch the ball 100% of every play. So by virtue of the society we live when ya touch something a 100% of every play or everyday then ya are judged by virtue of the fact ya do and ya are held to a metric by virtue that the ball is in your hands and ya have a greater chance to effect a outcome. It is also why we judged our Presidents and CEO's and other positions the way we do as when ya have the power to effect a outcome by fact that your hands and fingerprints are on it ya get judge by that knowledge ya do.

 

[moklerman]

The QB will always shoulder a burden for the win loss record by virtue of what it means to be the QB. He and another player alone has a unique situation on offense. An outside of a occasional gadget play the QB and the center are the only ones on offense who touch the ball 100% of every play. So by virtue of the society we live when ya touch something a 100% of every play or everyday then ya are judged by virtue of the fact ya do and ya are held to a metric by virtue that the ball is in your hands and ya have a greater chance to effect a outcome. It is also why we judged our Presidents and CEO's and other positions the way we do as when ya have the power to effect a outcome by fact that your hands and fingerprints are on it ya get judge by that knowledge ya do.

But there is perception and then there's reality. I think you were being given credit for the latter. So, if you know better than to assign all responsibility to one player why bring it up in a discussion/comparison?

 

[RmsLegends]

i think you need to put your sarcasm glasses on.

.

Seeing how I am new around these parts my basic assumption was this was a sincere opinion stated by him so as to the sarcasm he uses I would have no clue, but since we are now engaged in convo I would say I should see if he wishes to continue as I missed his original sarcasm.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Seeing how I am new around these parts my basic assumption was this was a sincere opinion stated by him so as to the sarcasm he uses I would have no clue, but since we are now engaged in convo I would say I should see if he wishes to continue as I missed his original sarcasm.

yes it was but he was replying to rams and gators who was clearly being sarcastic. that's why i was telling him to put the sarcasm glasses on.

.

 

[jap]

The QB will always shoulder a burden for the win loss record by virtue of what it means to be the QB. He and another player alone has a unique situation on offense. An outside of a occasional gadget play the QB and the center are the only ones on offense who touch the ball 100% of every play. So by virtue of the society we live when ya touch something a 100% of every play or everyday then ya are judged by virtue of the fact ya do and ya are held to a metric by virtue that the ball is in your hands and ya have a greater chance to effect a outcome. It is also why we judged our Presidents and CEO's and other positions the way we do as when ya have the power to effect a outcome by fact that your hands and fingerprints are on it ya get judge by that knowledge ya do.

All this does is bring up the oft-quoted (by me) admonition by savvy NFL insiders: "QB's tend to get too much of the credit/blame for was or losses."

I do not necessarily regard Michael Jordan as the greatest basketball player of all time. However, I am well aware that many do. Yet MJ could not win a championship without sufficient help from other stars and role players. One guy could not do it alone in a sport where five players work as a team at any given point in a game.

The ridiculousness of the sole superstar savior becomes even more foolish for baseball, which fields nine players as a team at any given point in a contest. It becomes outright lunacy in the case of football where 22 players! man the offensive/defensive starting assignments. I am not even including the special teasers, who have their own distinctive roles in this sport.

Dan "the Man" Marino, one of the greatest QB's I ever saw, never won a Super Bowl. Was he any less than the vast majority of SB winning QB's? A thousand times, hell no!!! He simply lacked sufficient support from his teammates. For one thing, he never enjoyed a dominating running attack and was counted on way too often to do everything with his super arm and quick wits. Whenever he carried his team to the playoffs and squared off against the better teams with their superior defenses who could effectively "gang up" on the superstar QB, Dan could not get it done . . . alone!

Exactly what is expected from Sam who has enjoyed less team support thus far in his short NFL career than Dan did at the same point ion his career? One man can carry a team? It doesn't work in 5-player basketball, makes even less sense in 9-player baseball, and is too foolish to consider in 22-player football!

 

[RmsLegends]

there's controversy with sam? where? he's always been the rams' guy and they have never made a move to suggest otherwise.

.

The fact that year after year the coach has to announce Sam is our guy is proof of controversy as if there was no question or controversy he would not make such a statement, unless of course this is your sarcasm?

Now perhaps in the Rams locker room they know that Sam is their guy and only announce so as it is the fan base who sees a problem. However that is our right to question as football is a entertainment business and we are the consumers. The whole job of these organizations is to get us to spend our expendable dollars on their product. The better the product the more they make, when the product is subpar we as consumers have a right to demand better as it is our hard earned dollars they are after. An we have every right to question what they are doing since they are seeking our dollars.

Also by virtue of our Constitution our press is endowed with rights to question publicly or in this case or sports media can question the product as well. So perhaps the Rams know full well he is their guy however not all the consumers and media is convinced so it causes a controversy. To which the organization has to announce he is our guy so while they may play down there is a controversy I think behind closed doors it is a different matter as since they are aware they are seeking dollars an anything that could effect that becomes a deep concern for the organization.

 

[jrry32]

I would think I have been fair in my assessment of why there is controversy with Sam as if he had a season or two of a winning record under his belt I doubt there would be the controversy there is concerning him. However I will use a team stat for a team sport 2010 (7/9)........2011 (1/9).........2012 (7/8/1)......2013 (3/4). See not a winning record in the bunch so I think I can state in all fairness that his controversy comes from a lack of a winning record or if he had posted a winning record in the same time period we would not see the controversy concerning him.

2013 was a shame as he when he exited had still put forth the same type of record as he had been doing in other words subpar and not a winning record. However there were games yet to be played so can we have positive assurance of what the outcome would have been other than using speculation and we coulda or we shoulda or we woulda, but the fact is since the games were not played by him the true outcome can never been known. So I find it easy to also fairly say he is still a question mark as we have yet to post a winning season under him and his best chance for one was snapped short last year so absent the evidence of it actually being done, I am left to speculate what he might have done. If I use speculation though I don't have a true metric to base my statement upon and it becomes opinion rather than a assessment of the situation.

So I think I gave a fair assessment as to why the controversy is around Sam, because he has yet to produce a winning record. Now do I blame him alone for the lack of that heck no as it is a team sport so it falls upon the team. However since it is a team sport he bears as much responsibility for the wins as well as the losses as every member on the team does as well as the coaching and front office.

I also said that Sam has had no competition and I think is also a fair assessment as if he has I have no clue who it could have been?

This seems like a fair assessment to me.

 

[RmsLegends]

yes it was but he was replying to rams and gators who was clearly being sarcastic. that's why i was telling him to put the sarcasm glasses on.

.

My apologies I somehow saw it as ya was quoting me so on second look I sure missed who the post was directed at so my apologies.