L.A. fires

[RhodyRams]

Not to poke fun.... but, so are these fires...

that was my thought also

how expensive are they, considering the cost of these fires over last few years is topping 50 billion

 

[Kupped]

that was my thought also

how expensive are they, considering the cost of these fires over last few years is topping 50 billion

Please read my response to that

 

[RhodyRams]

Please read my response to that

saw it after I posted

 

[shovelpass]

 

[bubbaramfan]

Listening to fire Captain explain situation and events that combined to make fire so tragic.
He says there was (and still is) enough water. They couldn't use aircraft for water drops due to the high winds, which also spread the fire.
Opening 50 to 75 fire hydrants dropped the water pressure in some areas.He also points out more fire trucks would have had to just stand by as the topography of the tight canyons restricted how many could be employed.
He called it a "Perfect Storm of a tragedy" . Similar to landslides, tornado's or hurricanes.


Of course when anything goes wrong, the fingers come out pointing at Government.

 

[Corbin]

Who cares about the people? I won’t go into all the things government there pisses money away on but if I were king, I’d filter sea water. desalinate it even and store it in water towers for fire use only. We can do better than no water to fight fire for an entire town. At least retain some storm run off. Insurance sucks everywhere.

Desalination is expensive and uses a shit-ton of energy. It's good that we can do it.. and may be forced to do it much more in the future.. but it ain't great right now. Maybe if we start building nuke plants as we need to.. it will be cheaper. I understand there's a way to combine the energy production and desalination.
Also.. from what I've read.. and I've read multiple places... water storage was at capacity. It was a system demand issue.. killing pressure to the higher elevations. And the failures, from what I've read, came after hours of firefighting.

that was my thought also

how expensive are they, considering the cost of these fires over last few years is topping 50 billion

I don’t know how true this is since I’m not a desalination expert but that was from a basic search.

And do you actually need to desalíñate the water to spray etc?

 

[Corbin]

Seen some posting how this got started..


View: https://x.com/alaska0420/status/1877560405523906666?s=46&t=KwDPB8g3_dITEcMZZq9_mQ

 

[RamFan503]

Update... this reservoir wasn't online.

Pacific Palisades reservoir was offline and empty when firestorm exploded

A reservoir in the Palisades that holds 117 million gallons of water was offline this month for previously scheduled maintenance.

www.latimes.com

So let me get this straight. They had 3 tanks with 1 million gallons each that went dry, resulting in higher elevation hydrants to go dry and a 117 MILLION gallon reservoir MIGHT have helped for a while? I’m sure their investigation will be really rigorous and heads will roll.

And do you actually need to desalíñate the water to spray etc?

If you are going to put it through pumps, valves, etc… it actually does. Salt water is pretty corrosive. Even a lot of deep water wells don’t work because of mineral and salt levels making them too expensive to pump out of the ground.

 

[Kupped]

So let me get this straight. They had 3 tanks with 1 million gallons each that went dry, resulting in higher elevation hydrants to go dry and a 117 MILLION gallon reservoir MIGHT have helped for a while? I’m sure their investigation will be really rigorous and heads will roll.

If you are going to put it through pumps, valves, etc… it actually does. Salt water is pretty corrosive. Even a lot of deep water wells don’t work because of mineral and salt levels making them too expensive to pump out of the ground.

It might have.

I’m not an engineer and couldn’t answer that definitely.

I am pretty sure that no matter how much water was available.. it would’ve made a very small difference.

Point of reference? Eaton Canyon fire.

It’s easy to second-guess.. and knee-jerk react… I’m saying there’s a lot I don’t know… and that you don’t know.

I do know that you’re not stopping a fire when winds are between 50-100 mph.

 

[Steve808]

Well while I feel for the people that lost their homes or worse. I also have to believe they knew the risk moving to an area where a wildfire is almost certain. Same goes with the insurance companies. This is why people pay insane premiums and deductibles. Insurance companies should have zero complaints.

I believe California passed a law prohibiting insurance companies from canceling existing policies so in a way, the insurance companies might be fleeing California as soon as they possibly can. I hope the people affected get the help they need. It's a sad situation and I hope everyone helps each other out.

 

[Kupped]

Listening to fire Captain explain situation and events that combined to make fire so tragic.
He says there was (and still is) enough water. They couldn't use aircraft for water drops due to the high winds, which also spread the fire.
Opening 50 to 75 fire hydrants dropped the water pressure in some areas.He also points out more fire trucks would have had to just stand by as the topography of the tight canyons restricted how many could be employed.
He called it a "Perfect Storm of a tragedy" . Similar to landslides, tornado's or hurricanes.


Of course when anything goes wrong, the fingers come out pointing at Government.

And, in all fairness… we still have no idea what went right and what went wrong at the start of all this.

One thing for sure WE KNOW.. is that Climate Change is the biggest driver of the fires.

Drought plus crazy windstorms = unstoppable fires.

I don’t know if people ignore that oxygen is, literally, fuel for fire. When winds are that high… it’s the same thing as a turbocharger.

 

[Kupped]

I believe California passed a law prohibiting insurance companies from canceling existing policies so in a way, the insurance companies might be fleeing California as soon as they possibly can. I hope the people affected get the help they need. It's a sad situation and I hope everyone helps each other out.

Yeah… as a business model… I have no idea how you continue to do business in CA or FL.

 

[Merlin]

If the people of California want to buy all the BS the politicians of their state and their designated dipshits are selling more power to them. I moved so I wouldn't have to do that.

Naval ships use seawater to fight fires, but the basics on this old idea (which has been around as long as there have been ships) is that there are drawbacks in its corrosive effect. Saltwater affected metals need to cleaned afterward, like for example if your boys spray an aircraft when its leading edges are down and get all in the wing wiring and connectors, and it's also rough on the eyes when in a mist and you're using it without gear. But it's readily available.

For the coastal towns we could say well it would be smart to have some systems that remote pump from the ocean in the event the fire mains are not properly maintained due to the leadership dumbfuckery that California is plagued with. But who's got the money for that shit when they're busy cutting the fire dept every fiscal year.

 

[Corbin]

So let me get this straight. They had 3 tanks with 1 million gallons each that went dry, resulting in higher elevation hydrants to go dry and a 117 MILLION gallon reservoir MIGHT have helped for a while? I’m sure their investigation will be really rigorous and heads will roll.

If you are going to put it through pumps, valves, etc… it actually does. Salt water is pretty corrosive. Even a lot of deep water wells don’t work because of mineral and salt levels making them too expensive to pump out of the ground.

That’s interesting to know. I know in the oil fields they pump brine water down the well holes.
Found this

Guess there is enough money in the oil industry they can replace at their discreción.

 

[Kupped]

If the people of California want to buy all the BS the politicians of their state and their designated dipshits are selling more power to them. I moved so I wouldn't have to do that.

Naval ships use seawater to fight fires, but the basics on this old idea (which has been around as long as there have been ships) is that there are drawbacks in its corrosive effect. Saltwater affected metals need to cleaned afterward, like for example if your boys spray an aircraft when its leading edges are down and get all in the wing wiring and connectors, and it's also rough on the eyes when in a mist and you're using it without gear. But it's readily available.

For the coastal towns we could say well it would be smart to have some systems that remote pump from the ocean in the event the fire mains are not properly maintained due to the leadership dumbfuckery that California is plagued with. But who's got the money for that shit when they're busy cutting the fire dept every fiscal year.

Are you aware of information not publicly available?

I’ve read nothing to back up the “ran out of water” claims.

We know the hydrants in the higher elevations stopped working at a certain point… but, um.. they’re still putting water on fires. Right now, in fact.

There may be dumbfuckery going on and contributing to this disaster.

But.. no CA govt policy lead to a completely dry winter.. and a catastrophic wind event in the middle of winter.

This isn’t DEFENDING anyone! I’m just saying… I want all the information before making assumptions.

 

[RAMSinLA]

Nor Cal here... I drive by areas where there are fallen timber and lots of underbrush all over the place. Every wind storm adds to the mess and the state says just leave the debris to rot naturally. I don't know why but that's what is happening. Maybe its above my pay grade but removing fuel seems to be a good answer to slowing down wildfires....
Another way to slow them down are fire breaks in the hills of vegetation... I grew up in Chatsworth CA and we were surrounded by hills with ugly firebreaks bulldozed into the hillsides....
And one day I realized why they did that... to slow down wildfires. It saved my home and neighborhood.

 

[RhodyRams]

I understand what you are saying concerning fire breaks, but how effective would they have been with the v80 mph winds

 

[Kupped]

San Diego offers some relatable information on a lot of this..

Want a better water supply with more storage? Got it. But.. it costs $$$ SD has the highest water rates and bills in the nation. Between paying for a desal plant and several water recycling facilities.. it's expensive!!

Same thing with electricity.. because SDGE is guaranteed a profit.. and because they've been held accountable for wildfires.. all the improvements they're making to safety.. under grounding major lines.. etc... they just pass the costs along to consumers.

What are the solutions? I don't know.. I'm sure there's a decent amount of waste in all that.. inefficiencies.. and maybe some people cashing in.

But.. I also know there are very real very big costs in both of those arenas... water security and fire prevention.

 

[Kupped]

I understand what you are saying concerning fire breaks, but how effective would they have been with the v80 mph winds

They're not. And I'm not saying that to be snarky.

Saw too much of the 2003 & 2007 fires up close. Wind doesn't care... it supercharges the flames and then spreads embers for miles.

 

[Mojo Ram]

So I’m watching this all unfold several days ago on the tv, and my mind always gets frustrated and moves to “there has to be a better way to do this” and thinking practically and simplifying a problem.

How do you fight fires in skyscrapers? You don’t really, but you do install a sprinkler system that may or may not always work but absolutely cannot hurt. Or you get Steve McQueen and Paul Newman to blow the water tanks on the 130th floor and let gravity do the work Lol, love that film btw

Anyway, I look to my woman and say “Build a massive ground based sprinkler system and strategically place them in areas to protect homes and infrastructure. They can also protect firemen in certain situations etc”
Surely it’s possible. ?

https://newatlas.com/good-thinking/rainstream-tower-forest-fire-sprinkler/
—————

This Giant Sprinkler System Can Protect Cities From Wildfires

Two Spanish towns have built a network of towers that douse surrounding trees with recycled water—stopping fire in its tracks.

www.wired.com

—————

Of course in this country, it seems as though if an innovation is not highly profitable and mega cost effective….it probably will just remain a great idea rather than a widespread method to simply do it better than we have been. That’s a tangent that doesn’t belong on this board, however.

I hope this disaster (in an area where we already knew it was and will continue to be a problem) will be addressed with bold ideas and solutions going forward. Solutions that are results based and not profit based.