Keenum and Goff: Discuss making change at QB

[Ballhawk]

I don't think that Keenum's issue is his height. Other QBs in the league are successful at or less than his height. He could be pretty good over time if he learns to overcome his weaknesses but I don't know if he can strengthen his arm.
He may find other ways to compensate but he has a #1 pick behind him so that chance may not come, but over time he probably will learn ways to get better.

 

[MTRamsFan]

Even with the offense stuck in neutral, Rams resist a change at quarterback

The Rams made a bold move to relocate to Los Angeles. They had the guts to leapfrog 14 teams to get to the top of the draft. Now, they’re gripping the steering wheel with white knuckles and hazards flashing, refusing to get out of the slow lane.

If you’re waiting for Coach Jeff Fisher to call a quarterback audible, you’d better get comfortable. Fisher is as immovable as a 400-pound defensive tackle, saying again Sunday he won’t bench Case Keenum for No. 1 pick Jared Goff, despite the fact the Rams have scored 10, 10 and nine points in their last three games.

Is a change even under consideration? “No,” Fisher said after a 9-6 victory by the Rams over the New York Jets. “I’m not going to go into a quarterback situation.”

Too late. The Rams have had a quarterback situation for a while, as evidenced by the boos and “We want Goff” chants at the Coliseum a week ago. Fans are beyond restless for the team to see what it has in the kid from Berkeley who turned around a moribund California program.

The Rams stopped their losing slide at four games , but they have yet to jump-start their offense. They failed to reach the end zone with a first and goal at the one, doing nothing to dislodge themselves from the No. 32 spot in scoring.

The franchise has gotten strong play from its defense and special teams — if there’s a most valuable player so far, it’s between defensive tackle Aaron Donald and punter Johnny Hekker — but has yet to find an offensive rhythm. Bizarrely, the Rams are 2-1 when theyhaven’t scored a touchdown, and 2-4 when they have.

There’s a valid argument for Fisher playing it safe. Nobody is running away with the NFC West, and the Rams have beaten the two teams ahead of them, Seattle and Arizona. Maybe they can survive by doing enough to hang around in the fourth quarter, as has been the case in the last eight games.

But this team aspired to more than mediocrity when it came into the season, and Fisher famously said on “Hard Knocks” that he wasn’t going to put up with that 7-9 … well, you know the rest.

Making a quarterback change will require a leap of faith. It would be easier if Keenum were a glaring weakness, but he isn’t. He completed 17 of 30 passes for 165 yards with no turnovers Sunday. He was solid but unspectacular.

Keenum was happy to walk away with a victory, of course, but also sounded exasperated when he said: “We’ve got to score touchdowns. There are a couple of decisions on my part I’d like to take back. … It’s the same story, different ballgame.”

Switching to Goff would mean taking a risk. Yes, he has no experience in the regular season. Yes, he made some cringe-worthy turnovers this summer. But the Rams are stuck in neutral.

Fisher said the rookie is making strides, but what kind of strides can he be making if he’s not getting the reps with the No. 1 offense in practice?

“I keep saying and I’m going to keep saying this until his first game, that he’s improving,” Fisher said. “He’s got a feel for it. He’s really into the game.”

While Goff might be into the game, other rookies are actually in the game. Seven first-year quarterbacks around the NFL have played this season, and five of them have started. The longer the Rams go without playing Goff, the more it fuels the question: What’s wrong with him?

Goff didn’t call plays in the huddle at Cal. Is that a problem? If so, couldn’t he read plays off a wristband? Plenty of young quarterbacks have done that.

There’s also another theory. Fisher is in his fifth season with the Rams and his teams have finished 7-8-1, 7-9, 6-10 and 7-9. Until he plays Goff, the coach will always have that ace up his sleeve. But as soon as he plays the rookie, the clock starts ticking, and the put-up-or-shut-up expectations begin to mount.

There was an opportunity to start Goff after the loss to the New York Giants at London, when the Rams had a week off to get him ready. They stuck with Keenum.

Now, the Rams have a home game against Miami, then play at New Orleans — neither has a great defense — before playing at New England. It would be nuts to have Goff make his career debut on the road against Bill Belichick and the Patriots.

Of course, there’s no guarantee that making a quarterback change would have a positive effect on the Rams. Playing it safe could keep them in the hunt. But for the moment it’s same story, different ballgame, ever closer to the familiar place Fisher did not want to be.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-jets-farmer-20161113-story.html

 

[yrba1]

“I don’t believe it’s the quarterback play,” Fisher said, via ESPN.com.

I agree, it's not the QB play that's the problem, it's FISHER and his own incompetence.

 

[UKram]

Keenum was happy to walk away with a victory, of course, but also sounded exasperated when he said: “We’ve got to score touchdowns. There are a couple of decisions on my part I’d like to take back. … It’s the same story, different ballgame.”

he says this every week i like and admire Case but surely as a Vet QB those "mistakes" (which is the reason you're playing as in you don't make them) has got to stop as do the excuses

“I keep saying and I’m going to keep saying this until his first game, that he’s improving,” Fisher said. “He’s got a feel for it. He’s really into the game.”

ive resigned myself to not seeing Goff at all this year barring injury...how bad must Goff be (and imo he was th ebest QB on the roster the moment we drafted him) that after training camp and 9 weeks of improving and he still cant see the field (unless the answer if Fishers boner for keenum is too strong )

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Was I the only person who rewound the start of the second half when the announcer was taking about Goff? I thought he said he was getting his first action. I suddenly got very excited to watch again, then, rewind, register, and blah.

 

[Juice]

I did as well. I actually turned to my wife and said, "This is it. Let's see what the kid has got.", and then I was immediately bummed.

 

[Faceplant]

I thought the same thing. Oh well...

 

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/14/nfl-morning-after-kill-the-quarterback-win/

NFL morning after: Kill the “quarterback win”
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 14, 2016

One of the smarter aspects of baseball analysis in recent years has been the de-emphasis of wins and losses in evaluating pitchers. To suggest that one pitcher “wins” a game and another pitcher “loses” a game, even though many other players are involved in whether a game is won or lost, is silly.

Brian Kenny, a broadcaster on Major League Baseball’s cable network, repeated the mantra, “Kill the win,” and other baseball analysts joined in on an effort to give wins less attention in assessing the quality of a pitcher.

Unfortunately, one of the dumber aspects of football analysis in recent years has been an increasing emphasis of wins and losses in evaluating quarterbacks. And if a pitcher doesn’t win or lose a game all by himself, a quarterback has even less of an impact on winning or losing, as football is inherently a more interconnected game, with every player dependent upon his teammates to win or lose.

And yet there was Rams coach Jeff Fisher after Sunday’s 9-6 win over the Jets, insisting that his quarterback, Case Keenum, would remain the starter despite a dreadful performance. Before the game, reports said Keenum could lose his starting job with another bad game, but after the game, merely winning — even winning by a score of 9-6 — turned out to be enough to save Keenum’s job.

“I thought Case did a nice job,” Fisher said.

Here’s the truth: No, Case didn’t do a nice job on Sunday. Case did a lousy job on Sunday. Case managed just 165 passing yards, completing 17 of 30 passes, and the Rams’ offense never reached the end zone. I’ve already explained why I think Fisher should bench Keenum for rookie Jared Goff, but what I want to focus on now is this notion that because a team won a game, that somehow means the quarterback played well. Or that because a team lost a game, that somehow means a quarterback played poorly.

All you had to do was watch Sunday afternoon’s game to see how ridiculous this idea about quarterbacks winning or losing a game is.

In New Orleans, we saw Broncos quarterback Trevor Siemian“win” a game in which he averaged 6.4 yards a pass against a lousy Saints pass defense, and we saw Drew Brees “lose” a game in which he averaged 10.4 yards a pass against an excellent Broncos pass defense.

Brees played far better than Siemian, but the game-changing play happened while both Brees and Siemian were standing on the sideline: As the Saints lined up for a game-winning extra point, the Broncos blocked it and returned it to the end zone for a two-point return score. Why would we call one quarterback a winner and the other quarterback a loser when the game hinged on a play that happened with both players on the sideline?

In Jacksonville, we saw Texans quarterback Brock Osweiler play an unbelievably bad game, completing 14 of 27 passes for 99 yards — a disgraceful 3.7 yards per pass! — but because the Texans won, and because the Texans remain in first place in their terrible division, we are apparently all supposed to pretend Osweiler is a winner.

In Carolina, we saw Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith manage just 178 yards on 25-for-38 passing, with no touchdowns and one interception. But because the Chiefs won the game — powered by the defense scoring on a pick-six and forcing a turnover to set up the game-winning field goal — we won’t hear anyone talk about what a miserable game Smith played.

The narrative gets even worse in the playoffs, when every game seems to become a referendum on a quarterback’s quality, simplistically judged by whether his team wins or loses. But we should be smarter than that.

We should see that the quarterback, while undeniably the most important player on the field, is just one of 22 players on the field at any given time. He doesn’t win a game by himself, he doesn’t lose a game by himself, and his team’s results often don’t tell us much about whether he individually played well. We really should kill the quarterback win.

 

[RAMNATION]

What does it matter? We will not make the playoffs with Keenum, and who knows how good Goff will actually be? Maybe the team hits a HR if Goff gets in there now.....

I agree, this QB change has taken on the similarity of Making a sick child take medicine. The quicker you take it, the quicker you'll get better.

 

[RAMNATION]

Keenum missed a bunch of reads today in the red zone. He doesn't see the field. Quick had his man beat in the end zone often.

I like Case. But if Goff is ready...its time.

That could be attributable to his pocket management. like avoiding the rush and finding lanes to throw through. I personally feel the the reason we don't see the "tight end seam route" is because Case is comfortable stepping into the pocket or can't find a throwing lane.

 

[dieterbrock]

17/30 for 165 yards
At face value, its not that bad
But then keep in mind,
Keenum started the game 8/11 for 114 yards (just over 1 quarter of play)
After that he went 9/19 for 51 yards including a screen pass to Austin that went for 20 yards!
He was terrible but fortunately, the Jets were just that much worse.
And considering how bad the Jets D has been vs the pass, it makes it all that much worse. Going in to the Rams game, the Jets were giving up 280 yards pg passing with almost 2 passing td per game (16 in 9 games)

Its getting more and more likely we wont see Goff at all this season because our HC is ridiculously stubborn

 

[OldSchool]

17/30 for 165 yards
At face value, its not that bad
But then keep in mind,
Keenum started the game 8/11 for 114 yards (just over 1 quarter of play)
After that he went 9/19 for 51 yards including a screen pass to Austin that went for 20 yards!
He was terrible but fortunately, the Jets were just that much worse.
And considering how bad the Jets D has been vs the pass, it makes it all that much worse. Going in to the Rams game, the Jets were giving up 280 yards pg passing with almost 2 passing td per game (16 in 9 games)

Its getting more and more likely we wont see Goff at all this season because our HC is ridiculously stubborn

That's what I saw and those stats are utterly horrible. How Fisher can go forward with a QB who has 51 yards passing the last 3 quarters of a game is beyond me. I dunno if Goff would be better but what we have right now is just not acceptable in today's NFL.

 

[dieterbrock]

That's what I saw and those stats are utterly horrible. How Fisher can go forward with a QB who has 51 yards passing the last 3 quarters of a game is beyond me. I dunno if Goff would be better but what we have right now is just not acceptable in today's NFL.

51 yards and they were trailing a good portion of that 3 Q
And again, this is against a defense that has been allowing 280 passing yards a game

 

[MadGoat]

I'm glad it wasn't just me who thought that. I don't know if someone remembers what the announcer said. It was something like... "A lot of fans were hoping to see Jared Goff today!" in an excited tone of voice.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Never crossed my mind! But I did think Hekker was going to start!

 

[dieterbrock]

And that ugly win just bought Keenum another 2 games minimum

 

[Boston Ram]

And that ugly win just bought Keenum another 2 games minimum

Makes sense, no way Goff could execute a complex games plan that produces video games time numbers 17/30 and 165 yards.....still dont know how to do blue font lol.

 

[LACHAMP46]

My prediction B4 the game....ah well...next week...always next week.

 

[thirteen28]

And that ugly win just bought Keenum another 2 games minimum

That's exactly what I was thinking yesterday.

Thanks Fisher, for making a win feel like a loss.

 

[99Balloons]

Maybe and just maybe there's a hunch that Jared Goff actually sucks and Fisher realizes the mistake of giving up six draft picks for a supposedly high ceiling, raw QB prospect based on the media hype. And that he does not want to use Goff at all when he realizes there's no way he's going to let the kid play because Goff actually sucks?

Cris Carter might be onto something when he said Jared Goff is not the QB the Rams thought he's supposed to be.

After the prolong delay, I'm not too sure what to make of the QB situation.