Jeanty vs. Penn State, Carter, Warren - anybody watching?

[Merlin]

I don’t think anyone said Warren is on Bowers level. Bowers is a generational talent with his speed, size, and athleticism. In most drafts with two top QBs Bowers would be a top ten pick.

Warren is being projected as a bottom of round 1 pick in a QB weak draft.

Yeah if he had Bowers' athleticism he wouldn't get out of the top ten. We'd have no shot on him.

As it is he is one of those TEs that never make it to us in round 2. But this time around we'll be picking somewhere in the 20s so he might be in play. Also this TE class offers Loveland as well in that range, depending on what he runs.

I'm not too high on Fannin personally. Level of play matters to me with the TEs a bit more than the other skill positions. Fannin however is very much a McVay type TE in terms of what he requires in his slot role. And you can bet given how poor Kupp has looked that McVay will be prioritizing filling that role.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Curious if Sawyer is more of a ILB even though I see they play him at edge a lot. Maybe a LB draft candidate.

He is a pure Edge in my book 6'5 260 and will be bigger at the next level. Great player but not a high need for us when you look at our roster.

 

[PhillyRam]

He is a pure Edge in my book 6'5 260 and will be bigger at the next level. Great player but not a high need for us when you look at our roster.

Yeah, the more I watched he looks like a pure edge. I guess I was thinking he was a hybrid type and was more like Jack Campbell of Iowa. I got my Jacks confused.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I don’t think anyone said Warren is on Bowers level. Bowers is a generational talent with his speed, size, and athleticism. In most drafts with two top QBs Bowers would be a top ten pick.

Warren is being projected as a bottom of round 1 pick in a QB weak draft.

I'm sure no one said that he was on Bowers level. My point is that he'd have to be at a Bowers / Gronkowski level for me to be excited about him in the 1st round. And while this may be a weaker draft class, it is a strong TE draft class sorta like the 2023 draft class. Remember, in that draft class Michael Mayer was projected to be a 1st rounder early, too. But he didn't go until round two.

Warren, Loveland, and Fannin Jr. get most of the early draftnik media love, but there's still Mason Taylor from LSU, Gunnar Helm from Texas, Luke Lachey from Iowa, Terrance Ferguson from Oregon, Elijah Arroyo from Miami & Jackson Hawes from Georgia Tech. You've also got guys like Jake Briningstool from Clemson, Eli Stowers from Vanderbilt, Oronde Gadsden II from Syracuse among others. Not to mention potential smaller school guys that we'll probably learn about later.

 

[jrry32]

That's what I said, the coach was trying to get him the record because the game was lost. I was glad he didn't get it 'that way'.

You think they were "playing the game till it was over"? That's not what they were doing.

And stop with the "he ran all over Oregon". Who have they played besides Ohio St.? (And please don't say "Illinois"). Hell, Henderson ran on Oregon at a 8.9 ypc clip.

****And boy oh boy are they getting their asses handed to them so far today!!

On Warren, he doesn't have the speed, moves or route running tangibles. All he does is make plays, when making plays is needed the most.

L-O-L. Who has Oregon played? They beat Ohio State, Boise State, and Penn State, three teams in the CFP. They also beat Illinois, a ranked team, and Michigan, a team that may end up ranked. They were the #1 team in the country until OSU beat them today. Jeanty smoked their asses. Keep on hating, dude. I'll just enjoy a great player being great.

P.S. Running the football is, in fact, playing the game.

It's funny how he'll probably go round 2 or 3 but when I watch their games he's usually the best player on the field. And he was again today.

Due to the talent at HB in this Draft, I think he'll be there in Round 3, maybe even Round 4. Going to be a steal for somebody. But he's also 5'8" or 5'9" and unlikely to run a great 40. Would love if we drafted him. Can do it all, and he runs hard.

Depends on if we trade K-Will or not. I don't think we would, but if we traded him to another team and got a third-round pick back? Depending on who's there at the end of the first round? I could see us trading down and picking Judkins.

We're not trading Kyren. Not McVay or Snead's MO.

 

[jrry32]

I'm sure no one said that he was on Bowers level. My point is that he'd have to be at a Bowers / Gronkowski level for me to be excited about him in the 1st round. And while this may be a weaker draft class, it is a strong TE draft class sorta like the 2023 draft class. Remember, in that draft class Michael Mayer was projected to be a 1st rounder early, too. But he didn't go until round two.

Warren, Loveland, and Fannin Jr. get most of the early draftnik media love, but there's still Mason Taylor from LSU, Gunnar Helm from Texas, Luke Lachey from Iowa, Terrance Ferguson from Oregon, Elijah Arroyo from Miami & Jackson Hawes from Georgia Tech. You've also got guys like Jake Briningstool from Clemson, Eli Stowers from Vanderbilt, Oronde Gadsden II from Syracuse among others. Not to mention potential smaller school guys that we'll probably learn about later.

I want to watch Lachey. He had hype in the past, Iowa TEs have done well in the NFL, and there's a chance he was a victim of that terrible passing attack. I also want to take a longer look at Eli Stowers. In the limited action I saw from him, he looked to be an impressive athlete who could do well in a move TE role.

I'll throw out another underappreciated TE: Oscar Delp from UGA. I hope he declares because he's stuck platooning with a really gifted younger TE (Lawson Luckie). Delp was stuck behind Bowers, but did a lot of dirty work as the 1B TE on UGA. This year, he's stuck sharing snaps with Luckie and Ben Yurosek (productive TE transfer from Stanford). When I've watched UGA, Delp has seemed quite promising. Good athlete and blocker. If his lack of production results in him falling, he could be a really good value pick in the middle rounds.

 

[Merlin]

My point is that he'd have to be at a Bowers / Gronkowski level for me to be excited about him in the 1st round.

What is interesting is Gronk ran a 4.68 forty, which is damn near the same as what Mayer ran (4.70). I use Mayer as example because he's a guy whose effectiveness on the field is a vast gulf away from Gronk in spite of their similarity in speed. Mayer looks slow as hell in the pattern. Gronk looks uncoverable in the pattern.

Warren is actually quite similar to Gronk I think. A 4.68 forty doesn't seem to be out of the realm of possibility for Warren. The dude is instinctive, and big as hell. He can body DBs and pick the ball out of the air better than anyone who is on top of him. He is always open precisely in the way Gronk was.

My guess is that if Warren runs closer to 4.6 (unlikely) he's a top 15 pick. If he runs closer to a 4.7 he's a 15-31 or latter half of round 1 type. Just generally speaking.

But IMO too much is made of the forty time overall as it pertains to TEs because of the variations in not only their responsibilities, but also the way different talent sets translate to the field. Kelce was a 4.61, Olsen was a 4.73, Witten a 4.65, La Porta a 4.59, Bowers a 4.50, Kittle a 4.52, and I think if you compare overall the forty time vs the size and ranginess and catch radius there is probably an equation that captures where they will fall in the draft.

In other words if you run sub 4.5 you're gonna go high even if you're not the biggest TE. If you bring good size that factors in. So does catch radius and contested catch ability. So does blocking to some extent, though pass potency I think is more indicative.

Warren has the size. He's got the sticky hands. He's got the catch radius. He's got the slippery route ability. He can carry the ball in the backfield in different usages like short yardage taking the hike. I mean when I look at La Porta I felt he was on that board too long, but it was probably his height/length that contributed. So idk. But I just don't see Warren getting out of round 1. The dude is too fucking good to fall into the 30s.

 

[Memphis Ram]

What is interesting is Gronk ran a 4.68 forty, which is damn near the same as what Mayer ran (4.70). I use Mayer as example because he's a guy whose effectiveness on the field is a vast gulf away from Gronk in spite of their similarity in speed. Mayer looks slow as hell in the pattern. Gronk looks uncoverable in the pattern.

Warren is actually quite similar to Gronk I think. A 4.68 forty doesn't seem to be out of the realm of possibility for Warren. The dude is instinctive, and big as hell. He can body DBs and pick the ball out of the air better than anyone who is on top of him. He is always open precisely in the way Gronk was.

My guess is that if Warren runs closer to 4.6 (unlikely) he's a top 15 pick. If he runs closer to a 4.7 he's a 15-31 or latter half of round 1 type. Just generally speaking.

But IMO too much is made of the forty time overall as it pertains to TEs because of the variations in not only their responsibilities, but also the way different talent sets translate to the field. Kelce was a 4.61, Olsen was a 4.73, Witten a 4.65, La Porta a 4.59, Bowers a 4.50, Kittle a 4.52, and I think if you compare overall the forty time vs the size and ranginess and catch radius there is probably an equation that captures where they will fall in the draft.

In other words if you run sub 4.5 you're gonna go high even if you're not the biggest TE. If you bring good size that factors in. So does catch radius and contested catch ability. So does blocking to some extent, though pass potency I think is more indicative.

Warren has the size. He's got the sticky hands. He's got the catch radius. He's got the slippery route ability. He can carry the ball in the backfield in different usages like short yardage taking the hike. I mean when I look at La Porta I felt he was on that board too long, but it was probably his height/length that contributed. So idk. But I just don't see Warren getting out of round 1. The dude is too fucking good to fall into the 30s.

I've not even considered 40 times yet. This is another time we disagree. Just going by the eye test and I'd say that Warren is closer to Mayer than Gronk. And I don't see the slippery route ability at all.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm sure no one said that he was on Bowers level. My point is that he'd have to be at a Bowers / Gronkowski level for me to be excited about him in the 1st round. And while this may be a weaker draft class, it is a strong TE draft class sorta like the 2023 draft class. Remember, in that draft class Michael Mayer was projected to be a 1st rounder early, too. But he didn't go until round two.

Warren, Loveland, and Fannin Jr. get most of the early draftnik media love, but there's still Mason Taylor from LSU, Gunnar Helm from Texas, Luke Lachey from Iowa, Terrance Ferguson from Oregon, Elijah Arroyo from Miami & Jackson Hawes from Georgia Tech. You've also got guys like Jake Briningstool from Clemson, Eli Stowers from Vanderbilt, Oronde Gadsden II from Syracuse among others. Not to mention potential smaller school guys that we'll probably learn about later.

Part of what helps Warrens case is versatility. Despite what some people say, he is a good blocker. He had some great blocks against Boise state. I believe that improves with a team like the Rams. I do question if McVay would covet his other skills though, like running the ball and passing. Gadget plays aren’t McVay's thing, at least I haven’t noticed it.

Allar has not performed well overall in recent weeks. He makes some nice throws mixed with off target throws, poor decisions and struggling to make his reads on time. That takes away from Warren’s performance. He was more impressive midseason when Allar was playing with more consistency. I don’t hold these last few games against Warren. None of the pass catchers for PSU have thrived lately.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

L-O-L. Who has Oregon played? They beat Ohio State, Boise State, and Penn State, three teams in the CFP. They also beat Illinois, a ranked team, and Michigan, a team that may end up ranked. They were the #1 team in the country until OSU beat them today. Jeanty smoked their asses. Keep on hating, dude. I'll just enjoy a great player being great.

P.S. Running the football is, in fact, playing the game.

Due to the talent at HB in this Draft, I think he'll be there in Round 3, maybe even Round 4. Going to be a steal for somebody. But he's also 5'8" or 5'9" and unlikely to run a great 40. Would love if we drafted him. Can do it all, and he runs hard.

We're not trading Kyren. Not McVay or Snead's MO.

I agree about Oregon. LThis game vs Ohio State is a poor indicator to judge if they deserve to be in the playoff.

Ohio State put together a 15-20 million dollar roster according to their AD it’s closer to $20. The defense is loaded with 4th and 5th year studs. Plus, they are finally playing like everyone predicted that their overloaded roster would. They’ve got more NFL talent than any team in the NCAA, and at some positions have multiple first rounders, like at Wide Receiver and in the secondary. No team can match the overall roster strength this year. It’s like Alabama with prime Saban.

 

[Merlin]

I've not even considered 40 times yet. This is another time we disagree. Just going by the eye test and I'd say that Warren is closer to Mayer than Gronk. And I don't see the slippery route ability at all.

Yeah I don't mind the disagreement. I think it's an interesting discussion.

I'll close with this... It ain't easy to carry the offensive burden for a top ten ranked team as a TE. And Warren has done that. Dude has 98 catches for 1158 yards. Every team gameplanning him knows he's the offense and it doesn't matter. So whatever any of us might think he looks like on the field, be it fast or slow or slippery, the fact is he has been uncoverable and has produced like few TEs have at this level.

I really hope that teams have a lower grade on him than what I'm guessing. Because then we have a chance to go get him.

 

[jrry32]

What is interesting is Gronk ran a 4.68 forty, which is damn near the same as what Mayer ran (4.70). I use Mayer as example because he's a guy whose effectiveness on the field is a vast gulf away from Gronk in spite of their similarity in speed. Mayer looks slow as hell in the pattern. Gronk looks uncoverable in the pattern.

Warren is actually quite similar to Gronk I think. A 4.68 forty doesn't seem to be out of the realm of possibility for Warren. The dude is instinctive, and big as hell. He can body DBs and pick the ball out of the air better than anyone who is on top of him. He is always open precisely in the way Gronk was.

My guess is that if Warren runs closer to 4.6 (unlikely) he's a top 15 pick. If he runs closer to a 4.7 he's a 15-31 or latter half of round 1 type. Just generally speaking.

But IMO too much is made of the forty time overall as it pertains to TEs because of the variations in not only their responsibilities, but also the way different talent sets translate to the field. Kelce was a 4.61, Olsen was a 4.73, Witten a 4.65, La Porta a 4.59, Bowers a 4.50, Kittle a 4.52, and I think if you compare overall the forty time vs the size and ranginess and catch radius there is probably an equation that captures where they will fall in the draft.

In other words if you run sub 4.5 you're gonna go high even if you're not the biggest TE. If you bring good size that factors in. So does catch radius and contested catch ability. So does blocking to some extent, though pass potency I think is more indicative.

Warren has the size. He's got the sticky hands. He's got the catch radius. He's got the slippery route ability. He can carry the ball in the backfield in different usages like short yardage taking the hike. I mean when I look at La Porta I felt he was on that board too long, but it was probably his height/length that contributed. So idk. But I just don't see Warren getting out of round 1. The dude is too fucking good to fall into the 30s.

Gronk was quicker than he should be at that size and insanely physical. A big part of why he was so difficult to cover was because of how physical and strong he was. He bullied DBs and LBs in his routes.

@Memphis Ram, I'll offer up one other intriguing name: Joshua Simon from South Carolina. I've not had the opportunity to watch him closely, but his run after catch is something that popped while casually watching the Gamecocks. He was productive this year too.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Gronk was quicker than he should be at that size and insanely physical. A big part of why he was so difficult to cover was because of how physical and strong he was. He bullied DBs and LBs in his routes.

100, add that too an elite catch radius and a symbiotic relationship with your HOF QB and you have Gronk.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

100, add that too an elite catch radius and a symbiotic relationship with your HOF QB and you have Gronk.

And if not for a back injury, he likely never gets drafted by New England. He would have been chosen much earlier.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Yeah I don't mind the disagreement. I think it's an interesting discussion.

I'll close with this... It ain't easy to carry the offensive burden for a top ten ranked team as a TE. And Warren has done that. Dude has 98 catches for 1158 yards. Every team gameplanning him knows he's the offense and it doesn't matter. So whatever any of us might think he looks like on the field, be it fast or slow or slippery, the fact is he has been uncoverable and has produced like few TEs have at this level.

I really hope that teams have a lower grade on him than what I'm guessing. Because then we have a chance to go get him.

I agree it's not easy at all. At the same time it's very well possible others player being featured/schemed in an offense (which helps a great deal) may have been able to do the similar if given the opportunity. This might not make sense, but for me I guess it goes back to Ladainian Tomlinson's pre-draft takes. When he came out there were questions about his hands because he had so few catches. But he had great hands. The real issue was he was rarely given the opportunity to do so in his college offense.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Gronk was quicker than he should be at that size and insanely physical. A big part of why he was so difficult to cover was because of how physical and strong he was. He bullied DBs and LBs in his routes.

@Memphis Ram, I'll offer up one other intriguing name: Joshua Simon from South Carolina. I've not had the opportunity to watch him closely, but his run after catch is something that popped while casually watching the Gamecocks. He was productive this year too.

I see the difference in quickness / fluidity / change of direction in Gronk vs. Warren.

I hadn't even heard of Simon. I'll have to see what I can find on him. The same can be said for CJ Dippre from Alabama, Gavin Bartholomew from Pittsburgh, and Moliki Mataveo from UCLA. Nagy and his scouts must have saw something worthy to give them Senior Bowl invites.

 

[Corbin]

Depends on if we trade K-Will or not. I don't think we would, but if we traded him to another team and got a third-round pick back? Depending on who's there at the end of the first round? I could see us trading down and picking Judkins.

Might as well start talking about trading Puka if we are going to talk about trading Kyren, that’s absolutely ludicrous and not this FO’s MO trading a player in their prime on the last year of a cheap rookie deal.

 

[dieterbrock]

Might as well start talking about trading Puka if we are going to talk about trading Kyren, that’s absolutely ludicrous and not this FO’s MO trading a player in their prime on the last year of a cheap rookie deal.

Kyren Williams for Josh Allen while we’re at it.

 

[Corbin]

Kyren Williams for Josh Allen while we’re at it.

I was thinking more Tutu for Allen… and a second back

 

[den-the-coach]

Jeanty ran all over Oregon.

He did first game of the year, IMHO, TreVeyon Henderson will end up being a better pro, but then again, I am biased.