It's fair to call Goff elite now

[Merlin]

People do shaft Goff with regard to throwing on the run. Compared to the rest of his game, it's a weakness. But he's not bad at it. He's just not amazing at it like he is throwing from the pocket.

Yes it was a big weakness last year particularly, his accuracy dropped noticeably on the run but also when he's moving more than a shuffle. This year he's actually improved a lot at it, but yes and it's one of the examples of how the Goff we see now isn't the guy we're going to have a couple years from now.

He's already one hell of a QB but he has plenty of room to improve. I want to see him get better at throwing under pressure too. He's got the ability to throw in the face of the blitz, but his accuracy in those situations is where he can improve the most.

 

[jrry32]

What's a bit arbitrary is comparing Jared Goff in being in the league for 2 years worth of games to Peyton Manning after 6 years in the NFL. Peyton Manning's first 3 season weren't Earth shattering either which is fairer to compare to Goff's career so far in any sense. Manning's INT %, TD %, and comp % were pretty pedestrian at best. Where has Goff's been at as a Career?

Peyton Manning was arguably the second best QB in the NFL by the end of his third year. Warner was the only guy who was definitely better. Favre might have been considered better based on his play in the 90s, but he wasn't playing better at that point. Manning's numbers were very much Earth shattering in his time:
http://pfref.com/tiny/m0Y6o

And the answer is yes regardless if you want to or not wins or losses are on the shoulders of the QB regardless if it's fair or not.

Other people having silly opinions doesn't mean I do. I don't give the QB all the credit for wins and losses.

 

[RamWoodie]

The defense gets no credit for making a total of three stops in the entirety of that game (counting the fumble in the first half). Don't complain to me that I'm not crediting the defense enough (and try to use "nonsense") when they gave up 45 points. They don't get credit because they didn't let the Saints score on literally every drive. Believing they should is setting the bar ridiculously low.

Disingenuous is complaining to me that I'm not giving the defense enough credit in a game where they gave up 45 points and put us in a 35-14 hole in the first half. No, I'm not giving them credit for the comeback. The least they could do is get two stops.

I see. The offense does get credit for coming back though,,,even though the defense made the stops to get them the ball...right?

Meantime the offense cant score enough points...but they do get credit? Righhhht!!!

 

[jrry32]

I see. The offense does get credit for coming back though,,,even though the defense made the stops to get them the ball...right?

Meantime the offense cant score enough points...but they do get credit? Righhhht!!!

Yes. The offense that scored 35 points gets credit for the comeback. The defense that allowed 35 points (before the final 10) does not get credit for the comeback. The defense getting two stops is not something that deserves praise. My bar for defensive performance isn't "don't give up a TD on literally every drive."

 

[RamWoodie]

Yes. The offense that scored 35 points gets credit for the comeback. The defense that allowed 35 points (before the final 10) does not get credit for the comeback. The defense getting two stops is not something that deserves praise. My bar for defensive performance isn't "don't give up a TD on literally every drive."

Four drives in the 3rd where the Saints didn't score. When the Rams where set to take the lead Goff throws a pick.

You just don't get it. This is a TEAM game. sometimes the offense succeeds...and sometimes the defense does. If it all adds up to a win it good...but according to you if it doesn't the offense can blame the defense? Got it!!!

 

[jrry32]

Four drives in the 3rd where the Saints didn't score. When the Rams where set to take the lead Goff throws a pick.

You just don't get it. This is a TEAM game. sometimes the offense succeeds...and sometimes the defense does. If it all adds up to a win it good...but according to you if it doesn't the offense can blame the defense? Got it!!!

1. The Saints didn't have four drives in the third quarter where they didn't score. They had two.

2. Goff didn't throw a pick when the Rams were set to take the lead. We were down 28-14 when Goff threw a pick.

3. This is a team game. The Rams lost that day because part of the team didn't show up, the defense. If we had lost 12-9, I'd be shitting on the offense for not showing up. Yes, you can blame a unit that performs poorly. We spent years doing that with the offense when Fisher was HC.

 

[majrleaged]

What's a bit arbitrary is comparing Jared Goff in being in the league for 2 years worth of games to Peyton Manning after 6 years in the NFL. Peyton Manning's first 3 season weren't Earth shattering either which is fairer to compare to Goff's career so far in any sense. Manning's INT %, TD %, and comp % were pretty pedestrian at best. Where has Goff's been at as a Career? And the answer is yes regardless if you want to or not wins or losses are on the shoulders of the QB regardless if it's fair or not.



I wouldn't say Eli was elite (lol obviously) for a career but there was for damned sure a time when Eli had an elite stretch where he was clutch for his team and bailed them out multiple times at the end of the season and leading into the playoffs leading to both those Super Bowls especially that first one. Either leading clutch drives for TD's or field goals to cap off a game to be out of reach for the win.


Eli has been very inconsistent in his career, there is zero debate on that and that's not what is being debated here. He had stretches where he was the Giants everything those two seasons. What's being debated is everybody is crowning Goff calling him elite where he is barely removed from being 0-6 as a starter and horrible in almost every aspect of his game. Now all of a sudden he is the best QB in the league? By the same standards I've read in this thread Mahomes is the best QB in the league right now and it's not close. Is that accurate?

How about we wait a bit until defenses figure out ways to challenge this offense? or actually do something meaningful in the playoffs?

Like I wrote in earlier post. To be elite takes many years being a very good qb, but you suggested eli was elite. At least that is how I interpreted your comparison. Which I thought was wrong. But I think we agree he's not. I wouldn't put either Goff or mahomes into elite catagory. Way to little sample size. I

 

[Corbin]

Peyton Manning was arguably the second best QB in the NFL by the end of his third year. Warner was the only guy who was definitely better. Favre might have been considered better based on his play in the 90s, but he wasn't playing better at that point. Manning's numbers were very much Earth shattering in his time:
http://pfref.com/tiny/m0Y6o



Other people having silly opinions doesn't mean I do. I don't give the QB all the credit for wins and losses.

You. I like you.

Hate how people always discount Kurt back then even Rams fans!

 

[Corbin]

Like I wrote in earlier post. To be elite takes many years being a very good qb, but you suggested eli was elite. At least that is how I interpreted your comparison. Which I thought was wrong. But I think we agree he's not. I wouldn't put either Goff or mahomes into elite catagory. Way to little sample size. I

I think Goff is well on his way there for sure though! I will be ginger about it if he takes us deep in the playoffs this year. IDK. We shall wait and see. The saints look beast asf this year to! Going to be a tough matchup.

 

[RamWoodie]

1. The Saints didn't have four drives in the third quarter where they didn't score. They had two.

2. Goff didn't throw a pick when the Rams were set to take the lead. We were down 28-14 when Goff threw a pick.

You are correct...I didn't remember correctly so I went back to the Gamebook to check.

3. This is a team game. The Rams lost that day because part of the team didn't show up, the defense. If we had lost 12-9, I'd be crapping on the offense for not showing up. Yes, you can blame a unit that performs poorly. We spent years doing that with the offense when Fisher was HC.

Your view of football is very skewd. You win as a team and you lose as a team. You want to be selective in why the Rams lost. I *could* just as well blame Goff for not completing one pass in their last drive, where the offense could've tied the game...and those receivers were open on every throw. I don't do that because as a team you pick each other up.

New Orleans is a high powered offense just as the Rams are...and KC is when they play tomorrow. Unless you don't know football you knew going in the Ram secondary was gonna be a problem in that game and they were. The Ram offense still had a shot to win though...and it was because the defense held them to a field goal.

It's all in how one sees a game. No doubt, the Ram defense has to be better, no one denies that. Tomorrow when they play KC I'm again worried about the defense. KC will probably do just as other teams do. They'll max protect against the DLine and go against the Ram secondary and LB's. That's proving to be the book on this team. Each time the Rams D play they get better though and I hope that's the case tomorrow...but I'm never gonna just blame the defense in the Saint's loss because the offense had their opportunities too and the defense did play better as the game progressed.

I'm done

 

[1maGoh]

You are correct...I didn't remember correctly so I went back to the Gamebook to check.


Your view of foot ball is very skewd. You win as a team and you lose as a team. You want to be selective in wy the Rams lost. I *could* just as well blame Goff for not completing one pass in their last drive, where the offense could've tied the game...and those receivers were open on every throw. I don't do that because as a team you pick each other up.

New Orleans is a high powered offense just as the Rams are...and KC is when they play tomorrow. Unless you don't know football you knew going in the Ram secondary was gonna be a problem in that game and they were. The Ram offense still had a shot to win though...and it was because the defense held them to a field goal.

It's all in how one sees a game. No doubt, the Ram defense has to be better, no one denies that. Tomorrow when they play KC I'm again worried about the defense. KC will probably do just as other teams do. They'll max protect against the DLine and go against the Ram secondary and LB's. That's proving to be the book on this team. Each time the Rams D play they get better though and I hope that's the case tomorrow...but I'm never gonna just blame the defense in the Saint's loss because the offense had their opportunities too and the defense did play better as the game progressed.

I'm done

The offense's job is to show oodles of points. They did that.

The defense's job is to stop the offense from scoring oodles of points. That didn't happen.

Therefore, it can be said that the part of the team that didn't do it's job was the defense.

Now it can also be said that the offense should be capitalizing on the opportunities they are given. They failed at that for parts of the game.

I choose to believe that allowing 45 points is an unacceptable defensive performance, even if we win. That's just me. If you are a big fan of defenses that allow 45 points, that's your prerogative.

An offense that scores 35 points, however, is doing an excellent job on even if it isn't enough for that particular game.

 

[RamnSD]

I believe that one of the criteria for elite status is a start in a championship game. Multiple starts are preferable. Championship wins also weigh heavily. Jim Kelly fits because he appeared four times.

For a QB to be elite he needs to be a team leader and the focal point of the offense. Right now I would say Brees, Brady, Ryan, Rogers, Roethlisberger all qualify. Some of these guys are on the back side of their careers.

 

[RamWoodie]

The offense's job is to show oodles of points. They did that.

The defense's job is to stop the offense from scoring oodles of points. That didn't happen.

Therefore, it can be said that the part of the team that didn't do it's job was the defense.

Now it can also be said that the offense should be capitalizing on the opportunities they are given. They failed at that for parts of the game.

I choose to believe that allowing 45 points is an unacceptable defensive performance, even if we win. That's just me. If you are a big fan of defenses that allow 45 points, that's your prerogative.

An offense that scores 35 points, however, is doing an excellent job on even if it isn't enough for that particular game.

Never said 45 pts was acceptable. I still say if the Rams do better their last possession and score a TD...they win. This is my post about the NO game before it was played:

This is a game we have to look at seriously folks. Any true Rams fan is a bit worried about this game for one reason:

THE RAM DEFENSE...particularly the secondary!!!

The Rams defense isn't bad by ANY MEANS...just check the stats, because they're 8th in defense overall. However, they're going up against a Saints team that's 8th in total offense, with a relatively young secondary and they will be tested. With the exception of Shields and Peters this is a very young secondary going against a QB in Brees, that knows how to exploit weakness...so how did the Rams prepare to face them? We're gonna find out today.

The Ram offense cannot sputter today, because while games take on their own personality...this could be a real shootout...and the offense that has the ball last, may very well decided the game.

SO WHAT DOES IT COME DOWN TO??? In my mind it will be:

*WHO'S DLINE CAN GET THE BEST PRESSURE???

*WHO TURNS IT OVER MOST???

*WHO'S SPECIAL TEAMS PLAYS THE BEST???

The Super Dome is gonna be a hostile environment...NO BOUBT!!! Our Rams have to shut the noise out and play with GREAT FOCUS and INTENSITY!!!

ARE THEY READY??? Given McVay and the way he welcomes a challenge...I SAY YES!!!

LET'S GET IT STARTED...GET 'ER DONE RAMS!!!

That's post 32 in the Saint Game Day thread. I was a realist about the Ram defense...and they didn't play well. I won't rant on them because I know what this team has defensively. They're young in the secondary and without Talib they just have a hard road to hold and we have to just hope each game they get better.

 

[dieterbrock]

Never said 45 pts was acceptable. I still say if the Rams do better their last possession and score a TD...they win. This is my post about the NO game befre it was played:

You should probably watch the game if you are going to make such wide speculations.
If the Rams scored a TD on their last possession, they would still have been down 45-42. After which, the Saints ran out the clock with some 3 minutes left because the defense couldn’t stop them all game.
No reason to believe the defense would have magically figured it out considering that once the Rams completed the amazing comeback to tie it at 35, the Saints drove right down the field to retake the lead.
Goff has just led them to scoring on 5 consecutive drives.
Saying it’s on him for not scoring on 6 straight possessions while not blaming the defense for forcing only 2 punts all game (when Payton was playing very conservative btw) is just laughable.

 

[RamWoodie]

You should probably watch the game if you are going to make such wide speculations.
If the Rams scored a TD on their last possession, they would still have been down 45-42. After which, the Saints ran out the clock with some 3 minutes left because the defense couldn’t stop them all game.
No reason to believe the defense would have magically figured it out considering that once the Rams completed the amazing comeback to tie it at 35, the Saints drove right down the field to retake the lead.
Goff has just led them to scoring on 5 consecutive drives.
Saying it’s on him for not scoring on 6 straight possessions while not blaming the defense for forcing only 2 punts all game (when Payton was playing very conservative btw) is just laughable.

NO...I checked that. This is how it was:

The game was 38-35 after the Saints kick a FG. The Rams had their last possession. If they score a TD it's 42-38.
Who knows how much time is left after a Rams TD but we know a FG doesn't win the game...the Saints need a TD!

Instead Goff has 3 straight bad throws to open receivers then the Saints score their final TD for 45-35.

 

[dieterbrock]

NO...I checked that. This is how it was:

The game was 38-35 after the Saints kick a FG. The Rams had their last possession. If they score a TD it's 42-38.
Who knows how much time is left after a Rams TD but we know a FG doesn't win the game...the Saints need a TD!

Instead Goff has 3 straight bad throws to open receivers then the Saints score their final TD for 45-35.

The Rams last possession was when they were down 45-35 and Cooks couldn’t pull down Goff’s 4th down pass.
New Orleans then ran out the clock.
I know, because I watched the game

 

[jrry32]

Your view of football is very skewd. You win as a team and you lose as a team. You want to be selective in why the Rams lost.

My view of football isn't skewed. If I'm coaching the team, we won as a team and lost as a team because my job isn't to create division in the locker room. I'm not the coach. I'm a fan. I can call a spade a spade. The defense lost us that game. Yes, I do want to be selective. Why? One unit sucked ass, while the other unit was great. There's nothing "skewed" about recognizing that our offense was great that day and our defense sucked. I'm not going to pat our defense on the back for the comeback. They are the reason we lost. I don't believe in participation trophies.

 

[RamWoodie]

The Rams last possession was when they were down 45-35 and Cooks couldn’t pull down Goff’s 4th down pass.
New Orleans then ran out the clock.
I know, because I watched the game

You're right DtB. I said it wrong. I made a mistake on the last drive. I left out a drive.

This is from Game Book after the Saints kicked the FG:

-LA 35 NO 38, 9 plays, 40 yards, 3:25 drive, 8:37 elapsed

-Los Angeles Rams at 6:23 1-10-LA 25 (6:23)
-J.Goff pass incomplete short right to R.Woods. 2-10-LA 25 (6:17)
- T.Gurley right end to LA 26 for 1 yard (C.Jordan; D.Onyemata). 3-9-LA 26 (5:44)
-(Shotgun) J.Goff pass short left to C.Kupp to LA 28 for 2 yards (P.Williams). 4-7-LA 28 (4:58)
J.Hekker punts 47 yards to NO 25, Center-J.McQuaide, out of bounds.

If the Rams do score on this drive it's 42-38...so I was wrong in saying the last drive...but the defense had held them to just a FG, That gave the Rams a shot but the offense couldn't sustain a scoring drive. My bad.

 

[dieterbrock]

If the Rams do score on this drive it's 42-38...so I was wrong in saying the last drive...but the defense had held them to just a FG, That gave the Rams a shot but the offense couldn't sustain a scoring drive. My bad.

Held them to a field goal? Saints got the ball at their own 25!
Rams had just scored on 5 consecutive drives
So it’s failure that Goff couldn’t complete a 6th straight scoring drive?
That’s insane.
They fought all the way back to tie the game, (with a 2 point conversion no less), and the defense gave the lead right back up.

 

[RamWoodie]

Held them to a field goal? Saints got the ball at their own 25!
Rams had just scored on 5 consecutive drives
So it’s failure that Goff couldn’t complete a 6th straight scoring drive?
That’s insane.
They fought all the way back to tie the game, (with a 2 point conversion no less), and the defense gave the lead right back up.

No...I didn't say it's Goffs' failure. I said "if the offense sustains that drive..." In fact...I simply didn't like the play call in that series.
When it comes to Goff I simply say there's more I need to see before I consider him elite.