How concerned are you with our WRs?

[-X-]

Not concerned. At some point you have to roll with who you have and let the development come to fruition. We replaced Amendola, Gibson, Fells, Alexander, Robinson and Salas with Tavon, Givens, Quick, Kendricks, Bailey, Cook, and Britt. Pettis is one of the (if not THE) best third down receivers out there, so there's a guy for every possible scenario in passing situations. All they have to do now ... is do their job.

 

[V3]

And do you blame him with the WRs that he has to work with right now?

That's the biggest reason he's seen as Captain Checkdown. He has little trust in any of them and I can't blame him. He's thrown down the field before when he had receivers he liked. Actions speak louder than words. I wish the Rams would listen, though.

 

[CoachO]

I strongly disagree with this point. We have guys that could be quality number 2 guys in Givens and Bailey. We have boom or bust guys in Britt and Quick who have number 1 potential. We have Tavon who can be a threat, but he isn't a prototype number 1. I do think he can be a star. And you have Pettis who is a good rotation player. You don't have 5 guys who can be stars.

Fro, why do you insist on putting labels on these guys? This team will never have a "#1 WR", and it doesn't need one. This point has been beaten to death. There are only a handful of teams who you can identify that have that kind of WR. And most of those, don't go to the playoffs.

It seems to me, that many in here are trying to look at the individual players and evaluate them against the other players around the league. Its an "apples and oranges" comparison.

The biggest key for this group, is how they fit in with the offensive scheme. Last year, they underperformed. But lets look at the reasons why.

1) they had no running game the first month of the season. Which impacted the types of coverages they saw.
2) once they shifted the overall approach and focused on running the ball, the passing game became more efficient albeit not as "dynamic".
3) Bradford goes down... and they go away from throwing the ball.... (avg 14 completions per game with Clemens)

If this team can establish the running game from the outset, they will force teams into more man coverage. Teams played tons of Zone or Combination Coverage against them last year, which limited the opportunities for "big plays" out of Givens, and more importantly Austin.

In games where teams did in fact play straight man, (Colts) and to a lesser extent Carolina, the big plays were there, and they hit them. Austin had his coming out party vs. the Colts all against single man coverage. Quick had his best game vs. Carolina, hitting on a couple of big plays against MAN coverage.

If teams are forced to commit to an 8-man box to try to stop the running game, they will have to play a "single high" safety, which will create opportunities, especially off play-action.

This regime has committed a lot of resources to this position. A position that by all accounts, is the hardest outside of QB to fully adapt to the NFL game. We have an entire unit of players who have 1-2 years of experience. It's pretty apparent they are more than comfortable with the concept of letting these guys develop into the players they were drafted to be.

The key for me, is whether or not Britt can show he is fully recovered from the knee injury. If he is, then he is the wildcard in this group. If he isn't, then Brian Quick needs to be given even opportunity to show he belongs. His biggest issue, IMO, is confidence. Him feeling confident enough in his own ability to prove he can play in this league, and gain the coaches confidence in that they will keep putting out there.

It also seems that people are over reacting to the Bailey suspension. He will miss 1/4 of the season. To panic and bring in another "body" in his absence is foolish, IMO. Ultimately, if Bailey, Quick and Austin can establish themselves as the core receivers on this team, they will have more than enough to be successful.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Tavon Austin is in his second year, and there was a learning curve for both sides. When Shottenheimer started using him at spit end and flanker positions in that Colts game he really broke out. I think it's obvious that he has what it takes and he seriously could be the guy on multiple tight end sets.

yes!

 

[CoachO]

yes!

I don't disagree, but the biggest reason for his breakout game vs. the Colts was their "choice" of playing straight man coverage. He tore them up with crossing routes. Even Givens had a couple of big plays on crossing routes BECAUSE of the man coverage. When teams chose to play zone, and keep these guys in front of them, or catch the ball in the soft spots of the zone (usually standing still), they were not nearly as productive.

 

[-X-]

I don't disagree, but the biggest reason for his breakout game vs. the Colts was their "choice" of playing straight man coverage. He tore them up with crossing routes. Even Givens had a couple of big plays on crossing routes BECAUSE of the man coverage. When teams chose to play zone, and keep these guys in front of them, or catch the ball in the soft spots of the zone (usually standing still), they were not nearly as productive.

I think Quick and Givens can be the zone busters if teams choose to employ zone (and that'll be rough if they're stacking the box). Givens had a nagging ankle injury for most of last year, so I expect his productivity to rise even when he's not being used to set up the underneath stuff as a decoy.

 

[FRO]

Fro, why do you insist on putting labels on these guys? This team will never have a "#1 WR", and it doesn't need one. This point has been beaten to death. There are only a handful of teams who you can identify that have that kind of WR. And most of those, don't go to the playoffs.

It seems to me, that many in here are trying to look at the individual players and evaluate them against the other players around the league. Its an "apples and oranges" comparison.

The biggest key for this group, is how they fit in with the offensive scheme. Last year, they underperformed. But lets look at the reasons why.

1) they had no running game the first month of the season. Which impacted the types of coverages they saw.
2) once they shifted the overall approach and focused on running the ball, the passing game became more efficient albeit not as "dynamic".
3) Bradford goes down... and they go away from throwing the ball.... (avg 14 completions per game with Clemens)

If this team can establish the running game from the outset, they will force teams into more man coverage. Teams played tons of Zone or Combination Coverage against them last year, which limited the opportunities for "big plays" out of Givens, and more importantly Austin.

In games where teams did in fact play straight man, (Colts) and to a lesser extent Carolina, the big plays were there, and they hit them. Austin had his coming out party vs. the Colts all against single man coverage. Quick had his best game vs. Carolina, hitting on a couple of big plays against MAN coverage.

If teams are forced to commit to an 8-man box to try to stop the running game, they will have to play a "single high" safety, which will create opportunities, especially off play-action.

This regime has committed a lot of resources to this position. A position that by all accounts, is the hardest outside of QB to fully adapt to the NFL game. We have an entire unit of players who have 1-2 years of experience. It's pretty apparent they are more than comfortable with the concept of letting these guys develop into the players they were drafted to be.

The key for me, is whether or not Britt can show he is fully recovered from the knee injury. If he is, then he is the wildcard in this group. If he isn't, then Brian Quick needs to be given even opportunity to show he belongs. His biggest issue, IMO, is confidence. Him feeling confident enough in his own ability to prove he can play in this league, and gain the coaches confidence in that they will keep putting out there.

It also seems that people are over reacting to the Bailey suspension. He will miss 1/4 of the season. To panic and bring in another "body" in his absence is foolish, IMO. Ultimately, if Bailey, Quick and Austin can establish themselves as the core receivers on this team, they will have more than enough to be successful.

I understand your point and I will clarify mine for you. By number one receiver I mean someone that pulls coverage their way and defenses gamelan heavily for. The Johnson's, Green's, Jones', Bryant's of the world. By number 2 guys I mean guys like Jeremy Maclin (when healthy), solid guys who put up solid production. I'm not in anyway shape or form saying we need a number 1 guy. I think having one would be awesome and it would help the other guys out greatly.

 

[Selassie I]

As it stands now... Our WR Corp is the weakest link on the team. That's how I see it.

Hopefully the unit shows some real growth and improvement this season.

 

[FRO]

I think Quick and Givens can be the zone busters if teams choose to employ zone (and that'll be rough if they're stacking the box). Givens had a nagging ankle injury for most of last year, so I expect his productivity to rise even when he's not being used to set up the underneath stuff as a decoy.

Did his ankle injury hurt his catching ability too? Givens dropped too many easy passes last year.

If these guys just had dependable hands I would be happy. The guy with the best hands is suspended the first 4 games.

 

[max]

Pettis is one of the (if not THE) best third down receivers out there, so there's a guy for every possible scenario in passing situations. All they have to do now ... is do their job.

Pettis is a bum. He is my new Brandon Gibson.

Obviously, on this board I'm as alone on Pettis as I was on Gibson. But outside of this board I'm certainly not alone in my viewpoint on him.

 

[FRO]

Pettis is a bum. He is my new Brandon Gibson.

Obviously, on this board I'm as alone on Pettis as I was on Gibson. But outside of this board I'm certainly not alone in my viewpoint on him.

I wouldn't call either Pettis or Gibson as bums. I consider them miscast as starting WRs. Pettis is a good situational player. Gibson is a solid 3rd option. Neither are starting caliber.

 

[max]

I wouldn't call either Pettis or Gibson as bums. I consider them miscast as starting WRs. Pettis is a good situational player. Gibson is a solid 3rd option. Neither are starting caliber.

That's fair. And I accept that perspective.

I don't accept that Pettis is one of the best 3rd down WRs in the league.

 

[CoachO]

I understand your point and I will clarify mine for you. By number one receiver I mean someone that pulls coverage their way and defenses gamelan heavily for. The Johnson's, Green's, Jones', Bryant's of the world. By number 2 guys I mean guys like Jeremy Maclin (when healthy), solid guys who put up solid production. I'm not in anyway shape or form saying we need a number 1 guy. I think having one would be awesome and it would help the other guys out greatly.

I think they have those guys. Teams have done just that. Look at Arizona in Week One last year. They took Givens completely out of the game by putting Peterson on him, and keeping a safety over the top. That opened up things for Cook to have a huge game.

The problem is, as I see it, is teams respected the speed element of our receiving corp, and played predominantly zone against it. That in effect neutralized the speed element of both Givens and Austin, and didn't allow Cook to be isolated on a LB.

When facing zone coverage, someone like Austin is forced to catch everything underneath and runs right into waiting LBs, or has to settle in the soft spots of the zone, catching the ball while standing still. And then has no where to run as the defense converges.

That's why I go back to the importance of running the ball. It will take teams out of zone, and create more one on one situations for ALL the WRs.

 

[Athos]

Johnson, Boldin, Crabtree, Davis....
Outside of what SF has (being able to land Boldin and Johnson for next to nothing really bolstered them) the NFC is awash of average at the receiving positions.

Really? Average? The Whiners have Johnson, Boldin, Crabtree, and added super athletic speedster Bruce Ellington in the draft who did nothing but score TDs. I imagine they use him as their own Tavon Austin lite. Plus add in Davis.

The Cards finally got a competent QB and their towering duo of Fitz and Floyd put up just shy of 2K combined yards and 15 TDs. Picked up 2 other WRs int he draft. Not surprising combined those offensive weapons with their D.

And the Hags are probably on equal footing with us in the passing weapon game, maybe worse with more questions but still have Rice and Harvin and spent two picks on WRs in the draft.

Snisher is REALLY banking on having a top 10 rushing attack to help out our WRs. Hope it pays, because the NFC West kills the running game even better than the passing game.

 

[den-the-coach]

Pettis is a bum. He is my new Brandon Gibson.

Obviously, on this board I'm as alone on Pettis as I was on Gibson. But outside of this board I'm certainly not alone in my viewpoint on him.

Easy Max on Pettis because you cannot expect more out of him then he is. He's big and does not have much top end speed, but usually hangs on the ball and as a punt returner has not fumbled although not very elusive, he's sure handed.

Pettis is not starter, but bring him in on certain downs and he can be effective. Now would I like to see somebody othr than Pettis step up? Yes, however, IMO he's not a bum and thus far has been more productive than Brian Quick IMO.

 

[-X-]

Did his ankle injury hurt his catching ability too? Givens dropped too many easy passes last year.

If these guys just had dependable hands I would be happy. The guy with the best hands is suspended the first 4 games.

I have no idea if it affected his confidence or performance. Did he drop a lot of passes his rookie year? Maybe there's a correlation between being worried about your footwork and not as much on the rest of the catching process. I mean, I get it. The Rams' receivers dropped passes last year. The only alternative to correcting that through coaching is to keep drafting wide receivers until you find one or two who never drop passes. At this point our options are extremely limited, so we've gotta have a little faith that these things will get worked out.

 

[grease]

I don't accept that Pettis is one of the best 3rd down WRs in the league.

Agreed. He's no Amendola or Proehl.

 

[-X-]

Pettis is a bum. He is my new Brandon Gibson.

Obviously, on this board I'm as alone on Pettis as I was on Gibson. But outside of this board I'm certainly not alone in my viewpoint on him.

A bum? C'mon, man. You know that's not how we roll. Are you doing this on purpose now?

 

[-X-]

I don't accept that Pettis is one of the best 3rd down WRs in the league.

Agreed. He's no Amendola or Proehl.

That niche is pretty simple, when Bradford and the Rams need to move the chains, it’s Pettis they look to first. When they need to put the ball in the end zone, it’s Pettis who finds a way to get it done.

Of Pettis’ 22 catches, 14 have gone for first downs and four more have gone for touchdowns. That means 81 percent of Pettis’ catches are either moving the chains or putting points on the board.

Over the past two seasons, Pettis has 52 catches with 38 of them going for a first down or touchdown.

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/1661/rams-pettis-filling-important-niche

 

[FRO]

I think they have those guys. Teams have done just that. Look at Arizona in Week One last year. They took Givens completely out of the game by putting Peterson on him, and keeping a safety over the top. That opened up things for Cook to have a huge game.

The problem is, as I see it, is teams respected the speed element of our receiving corp, and played predominantly zone against it. That in effect neutralized the speed element of both Givens and Austin, and didn't allow Cook to be isolated on a LB.

When facing zone coverage, someone like Austin is forced to catch everything underneath and runs right into waiting LBs, or has to settle in the soft spots of the zone, catching the ball while standing still. And then has no where to run as the defense converges.

That's why I go back to the importance of running the ball. It will take teams out of zone, and create more one on one situations for ALL the WRs.

I think we potentially have those guys. We have zero proven guys in the receiver department and outside the rookies none of our receivers had a good year last year.