How concerned are you with our WRs?

[FRO]

I don't know that I subscribe to the same theory that all of the other receivers are questionable on third down. I can go through every single game log and cite all of the third down targets if you want, but I'll need to know in advance if that's something that will compel you to reevaluate that statement. I started with the AZ game, and got to 4 different receivers before Pettis was even involved. Richardson, Givens, Austin and Quick were all targets. Three of those were conversions.

I have zero facts to back up my statement. My point is Pettis is our best third down threat is because he is the most reliable. Last year he was our only reliable target. His problem is that he is slow and can't separate. He runs the right routes, catches the ball, and isn't afraid of a hit. He is a good role player, but when he is your best WR you are screwed.

 

[FRO]

just another case of only addressing the perceived "miss" on two guys AFTER THE FACT, and ignoring all the other picks, be it via the draft or UDFA that they have managed to bring in that have completely turned over this roster in just 2 seasons. All because these TWO PLAYERS haven't lived up to someone's expectations in TWO seasons. Talk about the instant gratification crowd!

There were a fair amount of people that didn't like the Quick and Pead picks at the time. Also these 2 guys have shown next to nothing in their 2 seasons. You should and would expect a little more out of second round picks.

 

[CoachO]

How many seasons do high draft picks get to live up to their draft status?

IMO, I would say on average into their 3rd season. But giving up on them after ONE season (Austin) or TWO seasons (Quick/Givens) is foolish. Especially when you factor in everything that happened last year to derail any progress these guys could have and should have made.

This to me, is nothing more than the instant gratification syndrome. People think that guys have to be playing at a Pro-Bowl level from day one, or they will never develop into anything more.

 

[Rams and Gators]

just another case of only addressing the perceived "miss" on two guys AFTER THE FACT, and ignoring all the other picks, be it via the draft or UDFA that they have managed to bring in that have completely turned over this roster in just 2 seasons. All because these TWO PLAYERS haven't lived up to someone's expectations in TWO seasons. Talk about the instant gratification crowd!

Is it still after the fact when people are saying it prior to the pick?

 

[CoachO]

Is it still after the fact when people are saying it prior to the pick?

No, but it wreaks of "they didn't draft my guy" so I will never like these players unless they are Pro-Bowl players from day one!!!

 

[FRO]

No, but it wreaks of "they didn't draft my guy" so I will never like these players unless they are Pro-Bowl players from day one!!!

That's a disingenuous argument. Brockers wasn't my guy, but I support him. He hasn't been a Pro-Bowl player. Fact is Quick and Pead have given us next to nothing.

 

[-X-]

I have zero facts to back up my statement. My point is Pettis is our best third down threat is because he is the most reliable. Last year he was our only reliable target. His problem is that he is slow and can't separate. He runs the right routes, catches the ball, and isn't afraid of a hit. He is a good role player, but when he is your best WR you are screwed.

I'm really trying hard to articulate what I'm talking about here with regards to how this offense is structured, Fro. Pettis isn't the best WR we have, and I hope I didn't make it sound like I think he is. He's the best at what he does. If you need a clutch catch, he's your guy. If you need a zone buster, Givens is your guy. If you need to roll coverage on deep ins, Quick is your guy. If you need a receiver that other teams game plan for, Tavon is your guy. If you need a seam buster, Cook is your guy. If you need a guy who is almost always single covered by a linebacker, Kendricks is your guy. And if you need to trot out a personnel grouping that's designed to isolate any one of them, then you have a ton of latitude.

The alternative is to have a guy like A.J. Green and just throw to him all the time regardless of the situation. Without the gift of hindsight, this 3rd year staff (whom only had two years with their own scouts, according to most) didn't have a receiver like that staring down at them on the board. Some can say Watkins is that guy, but was he as heralded as the Greens, Joneses, or Megatrons of the world? And even if by some small chance he is, why would they be compelled to select him when that's not the type of offense they're trying to assemble? That would be like the Lions always passing on the top RBs in the draft. They don't care about that, because they're an air-it-out offense. We're a ground-n-pound ball control offense who picks its spots and opens up the passing game WITH the run game. Adding a guy like Watkins isn't going to make them change their philosophy (not saying that's your assertion either). All it does is give them yet another option in the passing game.

 

[FRO]

I don't think anybody here has given up on Tavon Austin either. Sucks he hurt his ankle right when he was starting to turn it on.

 

[CoachO]

That's a disingenuous argument. Brockers wasn't my guy, but I support him. He hasn't been a Pro-Bowl player. Fact is Quick and Pead have given us next to nothing.

Again, all based on someone's expectations. Obviously, the coaching staff doesn't share your disdain, and understand that the talent is there, but these are two guys that they feel are worth letting develop.

And how is it disingenuous? I would guess that it a lot more accurate with regards to these TWO players than not.

 

[Rams and Gators]

No, but it wreaks of "they didn't draft my guy" so I will never like these players unless they are Pro-Bowl players from day one!!!

How many day 1s do they get?

 

[Boffo97]

No, but it wreaks of "they didn't draft my guy" so I will never like these players unless they are Pro-Bowl players from day one!!!

I like every player who puts on the horns and wish the best for them. I can do that without having to instantly agree I was completely and utterly wrong if the Rams go a different direction. I wouldn't have seen drafting Watkins or Evans as "giving up" on anyone other than when we finish training camp and only keep the 5 or 6 best guys, then give up on the rest.

Back in the day, I wanted Suh over Bradford. I had concerns over whether or not we would provide a #1 overall QB the proper environment to thrive rather than get Bulgerized and waste both a pick and a promising talent. When they picked Bradford, I supported the guy with everything I have in me. I want him to be THE GUY.

But those who need me to admit that I was "wrong" are still in the middle of a long and frustrating wait.

 

[FRO]

I'm really trying hard to articulate what I'm talking about here with regards to how this offense is structured, Fro. Pettis isn't the best WR we have, and I hope I didn't make it sound like I think he is. He's the best at what he does. If you need a clutch catch, he's your guy. If you need a zone buster, Givens is your guy. If you need to roll coverage on deep ins, Quick is your guy. If you need a receiver that other teams game plan for, Tavon is your guy. If you need a seam buster, Cook is your guy. If you need a guy who is almost always single covered by a linebacker, Kendricks is your guy. And if you need to trot out a personnel grouping that's designed to isolate any one of them, then you have a ton of latitude.

The alternative is to have a guy like A.J. Green and just throw to him all the time regardless of the situation. Without the gift of hindsight, this 3rd year staff (whom only had two years with their own scouts, according to most) didn't have a receiver like that staring down at them on the board. Some can say Watkins is that guy, but was he as heralded as the Greens, Joneses, or Megatrons of the world? And even if by some small chance he is, why would they be compelled to select him when that's not the type of offense they're trying to assemble? That would be like the Lions always passing on the top RBs in the draft. They don't care about that, because they're an air-it-out offense. We're a ground-n-pound ball control offense who picks its spots and opens up the passing game WITH the run game. Adding a guy like Watkins isn't going to make them change their philosophy (not saying that's your assertion either). All it does is give them yet another option in the passing game.

I understand your point and I like Pettis. I also don't expect much more out of him than what he is. For this "group" WR core to work our guys need to be assignment sound and improve their pass catching. We won't win if we are at the top of the league in drops. I liken it to the St Louis Blues. They don't have one big time goal scorer, rather they have a group of guys. It works. Now if they could get that guy who is a great goal scorer they would take him. Same thing with the Rams, the "group" thing can work, but they have to step their game up from last year. If Givens, Quick, and Britt play to their 2013 level we are screwed unless Austin or Bailey or both really take off.

 

[FRO]

Again, all based on someone's expectations. Obviously, the coaching staff doesn't share your disdain, and understand that the talent is there, but these are two guys that they feel are worth letting develop.

And how is it disingenuous? I would guess that it a lot more accurate with regards to these TWO players than not.

Why did they shop Pead then?

 

[FRO]

I like every player who puts on the horns and wish the best for them. I can do that without having to instantly agree I was completely and utterly wrong if the Rams go a different direction. I wouldn't have seen drafting Watkins or Evans as "giving up" on anyone other than when we finish training camp and only keep the 5 or 6 best guys, then give up on the rest.

Back in the day, I wanted Suh over Bradford. I had concerns over whether or not we would provide a #1 overall QB the proper environment to thrive rather than get Bulgerized and waste both a pick and a promising talent. When they picked Bradford, I supported the guy with everything I have in me. I want him to be THE GUY.

But those who need me to admit that I was "wrong" are still in the middle of a long and frustrating wait.

And in hindsight, we haven't been able to put a team around the QB, so you were right. Still paying a DT as much as Suh is getting paid is tough on the cap.

 

[CoachO]

How many day 1s do they get?

As many as it takes. Obviously, this coaching staff believes that these players have the ability, and seem to understand that their talent is still there. It seems like fans/media think that they can tell how good a player can/will be all based on what they see from past performances. I tend to side with the people in the meeting rooms, on the practice field, who see these guys everyday.

I have been fortunate to watch every open practice at training camp since BOTH players have been here. And for those of you who base your decisions solely on what you see (or don't see) on the stat sheet, don't have any idea how talented these two players are. Or don't seem to have any idea what the coaching staff obviously feels about their talent.

Isaiah Pead, even while facing an opening game suspension, took every single one of his training camp reps with the 1st unit, alternating with Daryl Richardson. Brian Quick has shown more so than any other WR on the roster, to have the PHYSICAL ability that the other guys on this roster can only dream about. He got plenty of 1st and 2nd unit reps all throughout training camp. But it was also very obvious, that Fisher gives his most experienced players first crack at 1st unit reps.

Givens and Pettis were taking all of their reps with the 1st unit from the outset of camp. And it stayed that way right up to he start of the season.

I would fully expect that to change this year, and will be shocked if Quick and Britt aren't sharing 1st unit reps from the beginning of camp.

The bottom line here, for me, is these guys have the talent, and the only thing that is lacking is the experience and development of that talent to be CONSISTENT performers. When does that happen? Who knows, but it sure seems the coaching staff, and organization are more than willing to find out.

 

[Pancake]

I've never been very good at evaluating talent when it sits on the bench and hardly gets in the game. Like Pead.

Has he had a fair shot? I don't think so.

 

[CoachO]

Why did they shop Pead then?

Do you honestly think that Pead is the first player who has been shopped? I would surmise that it happens a lot more than is reported. but with him, he has become a lightning rod for this sort of "attention". I would guess that Richardson was probably also "shopped", but if it isn't "reported", it must not have happened!

 

[CoachO]

I understand your point and I like Pettis. I also don't expect much more out of him than what he is. For this "group" WR core to work our guys need to be assignment sound and improve their pass catching. We won't win if we are at the top of the league in drops. I liken it to the St Louis Blues. They don't have one big time goal scorer, rather they have a group of guys. It works. Now if they could get that guy who is a great goal scorer they would take him. Same thing with the Rams, the "group" thing can work, but they have to step their game up from last year. If Givens, Quick, and Britt play to their 2013 level we are screwed unless Austin or Bailey or both really take off.

Again, you seem to have already decided they aren't capable of developing. And you seem to be unwilling to even acknowledge an of the factors that they were forced to endure LAST YEAR.

 

[Rams and Gators]

As many as it takes. Obviously, this coaching staff believes that these players have the ability, and seem to understand that their talent is still there. It seems like fans/media think that they can tell how good a player can/will be all based on what they see from past performances. I tend to side with the people in the meeting rooms, on the practice field, who see these guys everyday.

I have been fortunate to watch every open practice at training camp since BOTH players have been here. And for those of you who base your decisions solely on what you see (or don't see) on the stat sheet, don't have any idea how talented these two players are. Or don't seem to have any idea what the coaching staff obviously feels about their talent.

Isaiah Pead, even while facing an opening game suspension, took every single one of his training camp reps with the 1st unit, alternating with Daryl Richardson. Brian Quick has shown more so than any other WR on the roster, to have the PHYSICAL ability that the other guys on this roster can only dream about. He got plenty of 1st and 2nd unit reps all throughout training camp. But it was also very obvious, that Fisher gives his most experienced players first crack at 1st unit reps.

Givens and Pettis were taking all of their reps with the 1st unit from the outset of camp. And it stayed that way right up to he start of the season.

I would fully expect that to change this year, and will be shocked if Quick and Britt aren't sharing 1st unit reps from the beginning of camp.

The bottom line here, for me, is these guys have the talent, and the only thing that is lacking is the experience and development of that talent to be CONSISTENT performers. When does that happen? Who knows, but it sure seems the coaching staff, and organization are more than willing to find out.

As FRO said, if Pead is so talented why try to trade him? Why give Stacy first crack at the starting job after Richardson proved ineffective? Why go with Cunningham as back up RB over Pead? Why draft Mason?

If Quick has all the physical talent why did his snaps decrees as the season went on in favour of someone who showed the ability to catch the ball?

Either they made a mistake in drafting the two or they made a mistake in drafting replacements/reducing their role. Which is it?

 

[-X-]

As FRO said, if Pead is so talented why try to trade him? Why give Stacy first crack at the starting job after Richardson proved ineffective? Why go with Cunningham as back up RB over Pead? Why draft Mason?

If Quick has all the physical talent why did his snaps decrees as the season went on in favour of someone who showed the ability to catch the ball?

Either they made a mistake in drafting the two or they made a mistake in drafting replacements/reducing their role. Which is it?

I asked Demoff about Pead, so we'll see what he says.