How bad is Stafford hurt?

[PARAM]

I mentioned it in the game day thread and later. It sure seemed like he was better after that shot he took. More accurate. More decisive. Got into a good rhythm. Almost like it woke him up from the lull he seemed to be in.

15 of 20 for 182 yards, 3 TDs 0 Picks for a QB rating of 152.5. Yeah, I'd say that was good.

 

[I like Rams]

I still think he is hurting more than he is letting on because quite a few passes are either behind low or overthrown of the receiver recently.

He wasn't doing it "as frequently" in the first 8 games. I want to stress as frequently because he did throw some passes low behind overthrown etc in the first 8 games. But he is doing it a lot more in these last 4 games.

Strength of schedule. Every team in November picked on our weakness and their D put mcvay and Stafford in an uncomfortable situation all game. We faced some good defenses early on, but all were missing key players on that side of the ball.

I also don't think it's a coincidence that 3 out of 4 of our losses were from past employees or friends of McVay. It's clear that those who have worked with him or know him very well personally, know how to ruffle his feathers and he calls plays that play right into their hand.

 

[Tano]

Strength of schedule. Every team in November picked on our weakness and their D put mcvay and Stafford in an uncomfortable situation all game. We faced some good defenses early on, but all were missing key players on that side of the ball.

I also don't think it's a coincidence that 3 out of 4 of our losses were from past employees or friends of McVay. It's clear that those who have worked with him or know him very well personally, know how to ruffle his feathers and he calls plays that play right into their hand.

That is very possible but I am sticking with my theory

 

[I like Rams]

That is very possible but I am sticking with my theory

I don't think it's a theory, as he's admitted that everyone is enduring sometype of pain this far into the schedule. That includes himself.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Patience may be the achilles heal of the McVay, Stafford relationship being a place they both lack discipline. If Matt was hurting long term he wouldn't admit it unless it was something that had to be reported.
He has certainly been hurt in the process of playing during the season it is only a question of how and if it has affected his performance on the field for an extended period.
His mechanics have not looked great at times but only he really knows if it is a due to pain or play.

 

[RamFan503]

That may be true, although it's somewhat orthogonal to my point.

 

[Merlin]

"I watched the Octagon back in the 80s. Great movie!"
~ @Loyal

 

[Merlin]

I still think he is hurting more than he is letting on because quite a few passes are either behind low or overthrown of the receiver recently.

He wasn't doing it "as frequently" in the first 8 games. I want to stress as frequently because he did throw some passes low behind overthrown etc in the first 8 games. But he is doing it a lot more in these last 4 games.

First year in the offense factors in here too. Pressure to live up to the trade. Pressure from McVay on his ass to live up to the trade. Trying to make no-look passes even when it's probably not necessary. Pass happy attack when the run game gets stuffed early. New players cycling in at wideout and TE. OL struggling of late with stunts and power rushers. He's got a ton of legit excuses other than being hurt tbh, not that I think we should be giving him excuses and I doubt he wants them. It's probably just him pressing, if I had to put money or whatever on one thing.

Also look at Brady. He played marginally for half the season last year in a new offense. QB is tough but long term I think this guy is going to do a great job for us. He'll start hitting those crossers and get his timing down. And btw here's the passer rating to date. All things considered I think he's off to a good start:

 

[CGI_Ram]

First year in the offense factors in here too. Pressure to live up to the trade. Pressure from McVay on his ass to live up to the trade.

I think he's pressing. Or... Was pressing. Maybe the hit last week jarred that out of him.

And, I think it's amazing he has as much feel for the offense as he has. It takes reps to really feel it.

 

[dang]

McVay improved his patience enormously against Jacksonville. Ran the ball consistently and with unexpected power formations. Less predictable play calling. A user friendly approach for the QB.

Stafford was the biggest beneficiary imo. Stafford got off to a smooth start and stayed patient. Kept his head on straight, avoided blunders, and ran play action passes at a very high level of efficiency.

Result of patience, running, play action: 37 points. No turnovers.

Every game is different but I hope McVay and Stafford can continue this more patient, winning approach against Arizona and down the stretch.

Patience against the worst offense in the league is a little easier to come by. Let’s see his patience and ability to adjust against the Cards.

 

[TexasRam]

No question some of Stafford's issues are related to new offense, moving parts etc. Some of the interceptions are truly not on him.

But honestly none of those explain the many times he has a perfect pocket and wide open WR and completely throws behind or over him. Rewatch the Cardinals game for examples or really almost any game this year.

He has always been a talented QB that can hit big plays and get really hot at times. But he has always also been an inconsistent thrower when compared to the elite throwers in the league. For those that maybe haven't watch in at length on the Lions it might be hard to understand why he often lacks short to mid-level accuracy. He's just a different type of QB. Personally, I think he lacks consistent anticipation as Aikman pointed out due to relying on strong arm plays. He more of a bullet thrower. Hit a target on the dig or curl and throw the vertical pass - these are his wheelhouse.

It doesn't mean he can't excel in the playoffs and hit some critical key plays or get hot for enough stretches to win it. I think with the right run game and defense he can shine. But the round peg square hole problem that Mcvay is putting him in is largely contributing to the issues we are seeing.

Lastly, people need to realize that the level of defenses Stafford was facing early on when he was stat padding was very low. Poor defenses missing key DB's was the norm until he ran into Tennessee. The wide open WR's allowing for a margin of error weren't a big deal until the coverage was much tighter. Randomly throwing deep balls against weak secondaries isn't as easy against good defenses. At that point you need a very accurate QB that can hit the short and medium range consistently and matriculate the ball down the field. That is not something he does particularly well, especially without a good run game.

 

[FrantikRam]

No question some of Stafford's issues are related to new offense, moving parts etc. Some of the interceptions are truly not on him.

But honestly none of those explain the many times he has a perfect pocket and wide open WR and completely throws behind or over him. Rewatch the Cardinals game for examples or really almost any game this year.

He has always been a talented QB that can hit big plays and get really hot at times. But he has always also been an inconsistent thrower when compared to the elite throwers in the league. For those that maybe haven't watch in at length on the Lions it might be hard to understand why he often lacks short to mid-level accuracy. He's just a different type of QB. Personally, I think he lacks consistent anticipation as Aikman pointed out due to relying on strong arm plays. He more of a bullet thrower. Hit a target on the dig or curl and throw the vertical pass - these are his wheelhouse.

It doesn't mean he can't excel in the playoffs and hit some critical key plays or get hot for enough stretches to win it. I think with the right run game and defense he can shine. But the round peg square hole problem that Mcvay is putting him in is largely contributing to the issues we are seeing.

Lastly, people need to realize that the level of defenses Stafford was facing early on when he was stat padding was very low. Poor defenses missing key DB's was the norm until he ran into Tennessee. The wide open WR's allowing for a margin of error weren't a big deal until the coverage was much tighter. Randomly throwing deep balls against weak secondaries isn't as easy against good defenses. At that point you need a very accurate QB that can hit the short and medium range consistently and matriculate the ball down the field. That is not something he does particularly well, especially without a good run game.

The Titans CBs were atrocious. That game had nothing to do with the quality of DB play. Niners and Packers also had average to below average CBs when we played them.

Stafford was the best QB in the NFL through 8 games, by several metrics. Some regression was always to be expected, and starting the way he did in a new offense literally had never been done before.

So we need some perspective before saying odd things like "stat padding".

BTW - McVay took the foot off the gas against the Giants and Texans - not a single time did Stafford or the offense "stat pad". The only occasions close would be end of losses where the offense struggled, but to me that's McVay saying "you will go down and score a TD here" as a confidence boost more than simply "stat padding".

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

The Titans CBs were atrocious. That game had nothing to do with the quality of DB play. Niners and Packers also had average to below average CBs when we played them.

Stafford was the best QB in the NFL through 8 games, by several metrics. Some regression was always to be expected, and starting the way he did in a new offense literally had never been done before.

So we need some perspective before saying odd things like "stat padding".

BTW - McVay took the foot off the gas against the Giants and Texans - not a single time did Stafford or the offense "stat pad". The only occasions close would be end of losses where the offense struggled, but to me that's McVay saying "you will go down and score a TD here" as a confidence boost more than simply "stat padding".

Of course you know “stat padding” pretty much never happens when you have the game under control in the 4th quarter (unless you’re Tom Brady) a concept “Shirley‘’ not unique with the Rams, not sure why you’d even bring up something so 101 (lol, then again considering some of these opinions I guess now I can see)

 

[Faceplant]

Goff

Hahaha. Goff=Gumby

 

[So Ram]

Hahaha. Goff=Gumby

Well I like Jared Goff . He was a good Ram QB.His passes were right there.He has gotten better & is working hard.Detroit is in good hands there.

Mathew Stafford showed ownership of The Rams offense last week.There have been times I wonder what The Rams would look without him.He got hit last week & taken off the field. He showed his TOUGHNESS.
How he responded was all pro like.

 

[Classic Rams]

I cringe when Stafford gets hit. But I loved the response last Sunday. If Brady can play with a bad knee and win a SB, then Stafford can do the same with all the dings.

 

[Faceplant]

Well I like Jared Goff . He was a good Ram QB.His passes were right there.He has gotten better & is working hard.Detroit is in good hands there.

Mathew Stafford showed ownership of The Rams offense last week.There have been times I wonder what The Rams would look without him.He got hit last week & taken off the field. He showed his TOUGHNESS.
How he responded was all pro like.

To be clear, I love Jared Goff and wish him all the best. That was a compliment ^^^, because he just never seemed to get hit and rattled. Tough as nails that kid.

 

[Merlin]

No question some of Stafford's issues are related to new offense, moving parts etc. Some of the interceptions are truly not on him.

But honestly none of those explain the many times he has a perfect pocket and wide open WR and completely throws behind or over him. Rewatch the Cardinals game for examples or really almost any game this year.

He has always been a talented QB that can hit big plays and get really hot at times. But he has always also been an inconsistent thrower when compared to the elite throwers in the league. For those that maybe haven't watch in at length on the Lions it might be hard to understand why he often lacks short to mid-level accuracy. He's just a different type of QB. Personally, I think he lacks consistent anticipation as Aikman pointed out due to relying on strong arm plays. He more of a bullet thrower. Hit a target on the dig or curl and throw the vertical pass - these are his wheelhouse.

It doesn't mean he can't excel in the playoffs and hit some critical key plays or get hot for enough stretches to win it. I think with the right run game and defense he can shine. But the round peg square hole problem that Mcvay is putting him in is largely contributing to the issues we are seeing.

Lastly, people need to realize that the level of defenses Stafford was facing early on when he was stat padding was very low. Poor defenses missing key DB's was the norm until he ran into Tennessee. The wide open WR's allowing for a margin of error weren't a big deal until the coverage was much tighter. Randomly throwing deep balls against weak secondaries isn't as easy against good defenses. At that point you need a very accurate QB that can hit the short and medium range consistently and matriculate the ball down the field. That is not something he does particularly well, especially without a good run game.

Sounds like you think he is the guy who lost in Detroit basically. I think he is writing that story of who he is right now as he settles in to this offense.

Stat padding also sounds to me like a nice crutch for you to explain how he is the 2nd ranked passer in the league. I think he is like all QBs in that he will have down games. In fact him being 2nd seems like a good sign in the face of some of those down outings.

Lastly you seem to think an upgrade at QB means he will be flawless but that is unrealistic. He has made some irritating throws but all these guys do. Watch Rodgers and you'll see some dimes mixed in with wtf throws.

Try to enjoy yourself man. We have a guy settling in who might be special for us. Playoffs and many games ahead will give us the answer on that too, we don't need to rush to judgment.

 

[OldSchool]

Sounds like you think he is the guy who lost in Detroit basically. I think he is writing that story of who he is right now as he settles in to this offense.

Stat padding also sounds to me like a nice crutch for you to explain how he is the 2nd ranked passer in the league. I think he is like all QBs in that he will have down games. In fact him being 2nd seems like a good sign in the face of some of those down outings.

Lastly you seem to think an upgrade at QB means he will be flawless but that is unrealistic. He has made some irritating throws but all these guys do. Watch Rodgers and you'll see some dimes mixed in with wtf throws.

Try to enjoy yourself man. We have a guy settling in who might be special for us. Playoffs and many games ahead will give us the answer on that too, we don't need to rush to judgment.

The problem is the trade was sold by a lot of people around here and even McVay himself as the solution to our problem and the move that was going to put us over the top. Then we come out see 1st half struggles and a 3 game stretch where at times he was worse than his predecessor and cost us in large part three games. The build up by people around here led to a lot of the feelings like TR was saying and others have said before.

 

[Merlin]

The problem is the trade was sold by a lot of people around here and even McVay himself as the solution to our problem and the move that was going to put us over the top. Then we come out see 1st half struggles and a 3 game stretch where at times he was worse than his predecessor and cost us in large part three games. The build up by people around here led to a lot of the feelings like TR was saying and others have said before.

I am guilty of that buildup. I had the highest expectations with Stafford but that's sort of my thing, as I did the same with Bradford and Goff.

What I think you are doing here, however, is lumping things together unnecessarily. Goff had issues reading rush threats, getting through reads, etc. His problems were things that McVay didn't want to deal with. The root of my arguments with many here re: Goff was the excuse making for his shortcomings. Goff was not good enough for a perennial competitor type organization.

Stafford is just starting out in this offense. As a veteran he has mostly read those rush threats and gotten through his reads etc. He is already a better QB for us than Goff the question is whether that trade cost will end up being worth it. But that determination has a long way to go. It's going to come down to the rest of this schedule, the playoffs, and even next season and the playoffs.

The difference is I am not going to make excuses for Stafford. Have not and am not and will not. Thing is for some around here who were on that Goff side of the fence they want to be right and are ready to condemn the trade (as they already have condemned it on day one) and they are also ready to shit on Stafford for his mistakes when the truth is all QBs make them and he's been consistently top 5 in passer rating all season long even with those struggles.

So I'm going to continue enjoying the bright side of that coin. For those like Texas who want to see the dim side knock yourselves out. If you want to be right that badly knock yourself out. If Stafford fails this year and next I'll understand moving on to a new QB. Not gonna victimize him and then carry that baggage through the successive seasons as that new QB tries to settle in and lead us to wins.

What will really be nice is Stafford putting an exclamation on that trade this year. Still plenty of room for that to happen too. We'll see how this goes and who knows maybe there's a victory lap in your future.