Hekker First Down

[OldSchool]

I don’t think we were deliberately screwed. What I and I think all fans want is consistency from the officials. If you call something on one team it needs to be called the for the other team as well. This game was not officiated that way and I don’t know how anybody can objectively say it was.

 

[dieterbrock]

I just cant understand that with all the gazillion dollars being generated in the NFL, how the technology is so archaic.
Still measuring first downs based on "eye balling" and rolling out a chain link marker? Good lord.
And review? Seriously? They don't have enough camera angles to properly review the play? At the very least, if a play is challenged and they don't have the camera angle to properly review, it shouldn't count as a "lost challenge"
The spot was clearly wrong.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Oh, come on, you give them far too much credit... fixing a game in order to hype a re-match which might not even happen?

For that matter, having an undefeated team in LA would be a HUGE storyline...every week would be a “1972 Dolphins watch.” From a purely business standpoint, if the NFL wanted to “fix” all the outcomes, they’d have big winners in all the big cities. The Jets and Bears would be perennial winners... and quite obviously they’re not.

Also, New Orleans is (comparatively) tiny, it’s got 370k people, it’s like the 48th largest city in the USA. Los Angeles at 4 million is about ten times bigger than little old N.O.

The NFL would have every reason in the world to hype up LA instead of NO... to suggest a conspiracy in favor of N.O. seems illogical. IMHO.

Edit: As I’ve said before, yes, I do believe individual teams cheat. Patriots deflate footballs, steal playbooks, videotape practices, and so on. And yes, I do believe the NFL downplayed or even covered up some of the Patriots cheating because they didn’t want the bad publicity. And yes, individual players cheat and take steroids and HGH and so on.

But systematic game-fixing? I see no evidence of that. The NFL wants parity and close games, but I don’t think they are stupid enough to try to predetermine games. If they got caught match-fixing, they’d stand to lose billions.

They look at possible matchups to exploit at the start of the season. They don’t influence every outcome. They do influence what gets the viewers... offense. They see who is good and which potential matchups they can exploit or trump up to get people watching. If a team falters and doesn’t get to that matchup, then they default to another option. Millionaires control their profits whenever possible.

Now the league wouldn’t put a bad team into the playoffs. Cleveland won’t be in the picture until they have a better roster and coaching.

 

[VegasRam]

I don't know the other half of your "we" is, but there absolutely is talk about games being rigged in favor of a specific outcome (in this thread). Which prompted me to question why we were given so many breaks along the way.

(It's the mouse in my pocket.) Fair enough, however I see the difference as being grabbing/PI calls are somewhat subjective, (and not reviewable), while the spot isn't, and should have been overturned.
Hence the tin-foil hat conjecture.

I didn't comment on the holding because I didn't quote anyone who brought it up. But also because you'd be hard pressed to find a fan, of any team, on any given day, who doesn't think the other team gets away with it all game.

No argument here.

 

[TK42-RAM]

As much as I see the controversy on this call, if we erase the mental lapses of missed tackles and poor coverage, we win this game. That is what Superbowl champions do.

... Super Bowl Champions Do !!!

:yess:

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

This game was broadcast nationwide. All eyes were on it. If the Rams win it, isn’t as much of a revenge factor, during the playoffs, since the Saints weren’t undefeated.

It’s less of a story. I’m sure the Rams will win a Super Bowl soon. The NFL wants to embrace the L.A. market and the L.A. brand, which is even more expansive. That is an enormous fan base. Additionally it’s why St. Louis never had a chance to retain the Rams.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I just cant understand that with all the gazillion dollars being generated in the NFL, how the technology is so archaic.
Still measuring first downs based on "eye balling" and rolling out a chain link marker? Good lord.
And review? Seriously? They don't have enough camera angles to properly review the play? At the very least, if a play is challenged and they don't have the camera angle to properly review, it shouldn't count as a "lost challenge"
The spot was clearly wrong.

Human error conveniently allows for the possibility of manipulation. State of the art electronics would make it too difficult to fix outcomes.

 

[Kevin]

This game was broadcast nationwide. All eyes were on it. If the Rams win it, isn’t as much of a revenge factor, during the playoffs, since the Saints weren’t undefeated.

It’s less of a story. I’m sure the Rams will win a Super Bowl soon. The NFL wants to embrace the L.A. market and the L.A. brand, which is even more expansive. That is an enormous fan base. Additionally it’s why St. Louis never had a chance to retain the Rams.

So are we a lock to beat the Saints in the playoffs because the NFL thinks that is the better story?

 

[wmc540]

So are we a lock to beat the Saints in the playoffs because the NFL thinks that is the better story?

Or does it mean the Seahawks are going to make an epic comeback to take the division?

 

[dieterbrock]

Human error conveniently allows for the possibility of manipulation. State of the art electronics would make it too difficult to fix outcomes.

I don't buy the fixing outcomes bit.
I mean if the NFL wanted to massage the outcomes, then what's more attractive than an undefeated Rams team on National TV? If they could have set up an undefeated Rams vs Chiefs it would have been a ratings bonanza

 

[LesBaker]

Except when they don't.

They absolutely do hold..........plenty. Everyone does.

 

[tklongball]

The worst part is not that the refs missed it, but that it wasn't overturned on replay. There is no excuse for that.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I don't buy the fixing outcomes bit.
I mean if the NFL wanted to massage the outcomes, then what's more attractive than an undefeated Rams team on National TV? If they could have set up an undefeated Rams vs Chiefs it would have been a ratings bonanza

Brees beating an undefeated Rams team is bigger news. Most of the country and 2/3 of California don’t care for or like the Rams. Who are the Rams in the big picture?

 

[Ken]

They absolutely do hold..........plenty. Everyone does.

You missed my point. Except when the refs don't let it slide. The refs chose when they want to call it. They don't enforce the rules as written - that's the biggest problem and the reason the refs can tilt the game to keep it close. So yes, there is O holding on nearly every play by every team, and they don't enforce the rules except when they want to. I don't believe they are dictating outcomes, but if they get a chance to help a losing (or inferior) team try to keep a game competitive they are more likely to call such a penalty. I believe this has happened to the Rams 2 or 3 times this season with holding called against the Rams OL, and at strategic times in the game, when the opponent has been doing worse and more blatant holding with no calls made against them. I think the same thing happened with the bad spot.

 

[dieterbrock]

Brees beating an undefeated Rams team is bigger news. Most of the country and 2/3 of California don’t care for or like the Rams. Who are the Rams in the big picture?

The undefeated team coming back from 35-14 down and beats King Brees is a much bigger story and makes next week National game vs Seattle even bigger.
That's the bigger point, the ratings are already in for the Rams/Saints game regardless of who wins. Its viewership of next weeks games at risk based on the outcome.
Bloom is off the rose now that there are no unbeatens

 

[jacktheripper85]

The NFL is “fixed”. Lol. You guys do realize that the “NFL” is not it’s own living breathing entity-right? It’s comprised of 32 individuals who have spent hundreds of millions if not over a billion dollars to own a team. Not to mention the millions spent on coaching, scouting, marketing, etc.

So please spare me the BS that 32 individuals with the wealth and egos they have are going to be alright with a select few teams getting “preferential “ treatment based on some phony narrative. Seriously? You think these guys are ok losing fans, millions of dollars and market share so certain teams do well at their expense? Think about how silly that sounds.

 

[Mackeyser]

For fucks sake can we just drop this "the refs screwed us" and "the games are fixed" and "the league has it all rigged" and all the related crap. Maybe the mods can create a single thread for it, or a separate section, and it can contain all the complaints and make believe conspiracies into one area. That way it won't pollute good discussion.

It gets old hearing it every singe day. And it is especially annoying after wins.

Watch the Rams OL..........they hold too. All the time, and they get away with it. Every team the Rams beat has fans all over the internet complaining about how the refs screwed them over. The Rams beat the crap out of the Cardianls and AZ fans were saying they skewed the game to the Rams to help them get established in LA.

And if you read Saints boards (I don't) I bet they are complaining about having to beat the Rams and the refs, and how Brees would have thrown for even more if the Rams DB's were grabbing the WR's and how they would have gotten 4-5 sacks on Goff if the Rams OL wasn't holding all the time.

If there was even the slightest speck of truth to this stuff the recently fired ref would have a 25MIL book deal signed and he would be on a media tour across the entire nation.

Complain about bad calls all day, I'm good with that and I can do that too. But the "it's fixed" stuff comes across way, way more as whining versus complaining.

Right...because Dr Omalu didn’t have the NFL following him and he didn't receive death threats...

I’d rather whistleblow in the CIA than on the NFL essentially being a part of steering games.

No book will ever be published unless someone comes out with internal documents and a host of evidence so compelling that any financial msg claims become moot based on the journalistic value.

Doesn’t help that the NFL argues in court that as entertainment, there is no question regarding the outcome as fans aren’t entitled to a contest.

 

[Mackeyser]

As a total aside because I don't want to start a new thread, I just had a thought.

I would wager that if someone went through every snap of every game that there IS NOT in fact holding on every play.

I know on about 10 plays where the Rams were on offense and they showed the view from behind Goff, I only saw a hold on 1 of them and that was questionable because the DL flipped his shoulders on Blythe and essentially put his arm around his neck. Blythe then anchored, pulled his arm back and pushed with both arms on the DL. I suppose a hold could have been called there, but I thought it was a good no call.

Even if 60% of pass plays have some level of holding, that changes the discussion, doesn't it?

I dunno.

Just think that if holding as one example of a penalty doesn't happen on every play then what constitutes a holding penalty and when is it called?

 

[Mackeyser]

The NFL is “fixed”. Lol. You guys do realize that the “NFL” is not it’s own living breathing entity-right? It’s comprised of 32 individuals who have spent hundreds of millions if not over a billion dollars to own a team. Not to mention the millions spent on coaching, scouting, marketing, etc.

So please spare me the BS that 32 individuals with the wealth and egos they have are going to be alright with a select few teams getting “preferential “ treatment based on some phony narrative. Seriously? You think these guys are ok losing fans, millions of dollars and market share so certain teams do well at their expense? Think about how silly that sounds.

Well, that's not the legal case the NFL made in court. They asserted that the NFL is a singular entity involved in sports entertainment which is a legal term which means that the outcome of the contest may be directed.

That became a term of art when the WWE had tried to assert that it was a sport and various State Athletic Commissions as well as other legal authorities were about to step in. They had to declare in court that they were entertainment, not a contest.

Well, the NFL argued in court that they were sports entertainment and thus no one had legal standing to sue based on the Patriots cheating and depriving ticket holders of a fair contest.

You can have your opinion, but the NFL and their lawyers say something different. And they said it under oath in court.