Driverless Cars are Insane.

[fearsomefour]

When you abdicate your responsibility (in this case driving) there will be a cost. I suspect one such cost will be in greatly reduced limits on financial compensation when injured in or by a driverless vehicle. Much like we have today with the Vaccine Court that limits compensation from harm from vaccines to a maximum of $200K.

A lot of potential cause and affect.
The one you mentioned is good.
Personal insurance costs going down by a ton, corporate insurance costs skyrocketing.
That expense will be passed on to consumers.
The other side affect would probably be choices. Look at the US auto market in the 70s-80s and TV until pay channels came on line. Both garbage. Why? Lack of choice.
If things like speed limits are governed by the vehicle (which it would be) why have anything with power or anything sporty? If the vehicle is going to be slowly turned in a rolling couch and not much else, well, most of the variety is going to go away. Costs won't go down either.
There was a time when the Pinto or Fiesta ....ugly, under powered and full of cheap plastic parts.....sold millions and Alice was a highly rated TV show. Neither of those would survive (made as they were then) today. Competition is key. If a lot of the things that are selling points now....even if it's silly in reality....are regulated out of cars we will end up with vanilla crap.
I'm not anti corporation generally. But corps need a couple of things to deliver a good product at decent prices....competition is one of the biggest.

 

[Loyal]

The maps these days are updated by the people driving with their gps on, not by cities and formal approval processes. Updates on the device are performed monthly, weekly, daily, etc automatically over cell coverage networks and public WiFi. The problems of past devices largely don't exist anymore.

When something is wrong, people submit change requests and get it fixed. You can become a Google maps contributor with little effort and help make the maps now reliable in real time for everyone.

I hate the idea of self driving cars, but none of your concerns are real things anymore for the most part.

Knock yourself out, my friend. It would have to be proved to me that what you say is true. The years of my driving in the worst conditions, makes me trust myself more than any machine. He.ll, I don't trust anti-skid braking systems because I know what I can do on snow/ice after many winters over snow and ice covered roads/mountain passes.

Now, get off my freakin' lawn!

 

[Farr Be It]

Technology, in and of itself, is not good or bad. Certainly there are grey areas to most ideas, as well.

But the one thing I have not heard yet, in the discussion of the auto-driven car (we actually had this thread a year ago) is the loss of individual freedom. So we program in a destination, like a GPS, and rather than drive there, it drives you there, hopefully? Hmm So much tracking of my location. (Bad enough already) So much reliance on the “perfect” machine, (programmed by “flawed” man) Reliance on batteries, as others mentioned, change in streets. New street? Car won’t go there. Oh well.

Instant citizen updates, you say? Ah, like Wikipedia? Flawless! What could possibly go wrong?

Naw. I’m good.

Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should. The bad outweighs the good here.

There are other considerations, but I’ll leave it here for now.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

My Volvo has driver assist
It’s fucking awesome
Let me count the ways:

1. It eliminates all annoyance with other drivers since the car keeps a safe distance at all times from drivers in front of you. So when dude cuts you off you’re not raging but relaxed cause the car responds without emotion and reacts accordingly. The responsive cruise control is epic

2. You can take your hands off the wheel to make a text or look up directions.

3. You can enjoy the scenery.

4. I commute once a week from SB to LA and I only actually drive for a few miles. The car literally drives the entire way. I arrive stress free. My mind is able to engage other things that are more positive and useless than driving

This is happening. You can live in fear or you can embrace what is inevitable

Cars will be driving themselves soon, cause they already are

Edit: for those who think you lose personal freedom with driverless cars, why don’t you walk instead of driving? I mean a car is built by a corporate giant, and you are a slave to payments and registration etc — why not just walk and you’ll have total freedom. For those that think personal freedom is being lost you might want to embrace driverless cars cause you all can jerk off all you want and listen to conspiracy radio at the same time, it’s a win-win for you

 

[VegasRam]

Regardless of what happens, (or how soon),
there's still gonna' be these...

 

[Akrasian]

Knock yourself out, my friend. It would have to be proved to me that what you say is true. The years of my driving in the worst conditions, makes me trust myself more than any machine. He.ll, I don't trust anti-skid braking systems because I know what I can do on snow/ice after many winters over snow and ice covered roads/mountain passes.

Sure, it'll be a while before the self driving cars are better than experienced excellent drivers who still have good reflexes and vision.

Of course, how many miles did you put in before you had learned all the skills and mastered your machine? How many of those miles were you reckless as you learned and matured? And how many more miles (with self driving cars continuously improving) before your vision or reflexes decline enough that you're no longer someone that should be trusted, at least compared to the AI.

Yes, the best drivers are likely still safer than self driving cars. The numbers of those will be declining, as self-driving cars improve, and then improve some more. It's a young technology, but already better than a huge number of drivers. And every accident - even if it's not the AI's fault - helps to create an even better algorithm. Meanwhile, the sweet zone of better drivers is in that period after you've actually mastered driving and are mature enough to consistently drive safely, without multiple beers at lunch or happy hour, without distractions, and before your reflexes decline a bit.

 

[Loyal]

Sure, it'll be a while before the self driving cars are better than experienced excellent drivers who still have good reflexes and vision.

Of course, how many miles did you put in before you had learned all the skills and mastered your machine? How many of those miles were you reckless as you learned and matured? And how many more miles (with self driving cars continuously improving) before your vision or reflexes decline enough that you're no longer someone that should be trusted, at least compared to the AI.

Yes, the best drivers are likely still safer than self driving cars. The numbers of those will be declining, as self-driving cars improve, and then improve some more. It's a young technology, but already better than a huge number of drivers. And every accident - even if it's not the AI's fault - helps to create an even better algorithm. Meanwhile, the sweet zone of better drivers is in that period after you've actually mastered driving and are mature enough to consistently drive safely, without multiple beers at lunch or happy hour, without distractions, and before your reflexes decline a bit.

A professional driver when I started couldn't drive for Greyhound Lines before 24 years old. It used to be a huge aggravation for me when my insurance rates were high in California due to my age and nothing else. I went through 8 weeks of truck driving school before driving semi, and then I switched over to Greyhound because living conditions were better, which also required passage of a professional driver's school. Regular Class C drivers of cars never get that kind of training and so it would be an apples to oranges comparison.

The problem with your scenario is that ultimately it will become mandatory for everyone, whether they like it or not to conform, whether we choose it, or not. Even if the government does it through the back door of the insurance companies by making premiums prohibitively high for those who actually want to drive.

Driving = freedom. If you don't think so, wait till you tell a loved one that they can't drive when their eyesight and reflexes are too impaired by age to do so safely anymore.

 

[Farr Be It]

My Volvo has driver assist
It’s freaking awesome
Let me count the ways:

1. It eliminates all annoyance with other drivers since the car keeps a safe distance at all times from drivers in front of you. So when dude cuts you off you’re not raging but relaxed cause the car responds without emotion and reacts accordingly. The responsive cruise control is epic

2. You can take your hands off the wheel to make a text or look up directions.

3. You can enjoy the scenery.

4. I commute once a week from SB to LA and I only actually drive for a few miles. The car literally drives the entire way. I arrive stress free. My mind is able to engage other things that are more positive and useless than driving

This is happening. You can live in fear or you can embrace what is inevitable

Cars will be driving themselves soon, cause they already are

Edit: for those who think you lose personal freedom with driverless cars, why don’t you walk instead of driving? I mean a car is built by a corporate giant, and you are a slave to payments and registration etc — why not just walk and you’ll have total freedom. For those that think personal freedom is being lost you might want to embrace driverless cars cause you all can jerk off all you want and listen to conspiracy radio at the same time, it’s a win-win for you

You sure get triggered lately when I offer different perspectives. Maybe change your avatar to this:

'cuz this dude

ironically is a free man. He is steering his own helm in the open seas. He don't need no stinking government controlled rudder.

Keep the personal comments to yourself. I am a thinking free man, and I stand by my comments.

 

[bluecoconuts]

There's a lot of much easier ways to track you than your car, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Especially as technology advances, you really can't get away from it anymore. Most businesses put these pathways in there so they can spy and sell you shit, the government just sneaks down the highway with them. It's the sad reality of modern life.

 

[Farr Be It]

There's a lot of much easier ways to track you than your car, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Especially as technology advances, you really can't get away from it anymore. Most businesses put these pathways in there so they can spy and sell you crap, the government just sneaks down the highway with them. It's the sad reality of modern life.

True, and I am aware of all the tracking, with devices, road cameras, etc. I honestly don't worry too much about things I cannot control. I just work hard, live my life with my family, and listen to conspiracy radio.

I enjoy most technology, and am open to considering most changes. I just think about the positive and potential negative of any changes. You know, open-minded. Cheers

 

[nighttrain]

Tis a brave new world! :mrburnsevil::rimshot:

train

 

[Loyal]

Tis a brave new world! :mrburnsevil:

train

Orwell called it "1984":rockon:

 

[norcalramfan]

Cars are already getting hacked, with drivers in them.

https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/08/02/charlie-miller-chris-valasek-jeep-hackers-steering-brake/#529225a463f4

It could kill you, but so can driving now. In 2017 there were 34,247 fatal car accidents in the U.S.

That’s some scary stuff. Just wait until the powers that be saying when you can go where you want to go and what route and how fast.

 

[Loyal]

That’s some scary stuff. Just wait until the powers that be saying when you can go where you want to go and what route and how fast.

Or that you have traveled the allotted number of miles allowed under some climate change accord directed by the Secretary General of the United Nations and your additional carbon credits have already been used. RIDE YUR BIKE!

 

[Dieter the Brock]

You sure get triggered lately when I offer different perspectives. Maybe change your avatar to this:

View attachment 28962

'cuz this dude

View attachment 28963 ironically is a free man. He is steering his own helm in the open seas. He don't need no stinking government controlled rudder.

Keep the personal comments to yourself. I am a thinking free man, and I stand by my comments.

View attachment 28964

 

[Farr Be It]

View attachment 28965

Actually, that’s not bad! :cheers:

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Actually, that’s not bad! :cheers:

We know he’s on auto-sail
But can you guess what is he doing with his other hand?

 

[Farr Be It]

We know he’s on auto-sail
But can you guess what is he doing with his other hand?

Careful Captain Ron! While you polish your spar down in the bilge, your ghost helmsman is steering you into the rocks. :help:

 

[1maGoh]

Knock yourself out, my friend. It would have to be proved to me that what you say is true. The years of my driving in the worst conditions, makes me trust myself more than any machine. He.ll, I don't trust anti-skid braking systems because I know what I can do on snow/ice after many winters over snow and ice covered roads/mountain passes.

Now, get off my freakin' lawn!

My point wasn't that it would work great, simply that every concern you brought up has been worked around. There are new and exciting problems, but they aren't the ones you mentioned Loyal.

Instant citizen updates, you say? Ah, like Wikipedia? Flawless! What could possibly go wrong?

Actually nothing like Wikipedia. Not instant, not any citizen, not unverified changes that get corrected by a tiny unpaid workforce.

This is how Google maps works right now. It's not theoretical maybe future stuff. It's what's really happening when 99% of America uses their GPS right now. The city doesn't update the map. The drivers drive on new roads, Google employees (or algorithms, who knows) checks to see if plans have been filled there by the city, then they send a Google Street View car out there. It's not instant, but it's a metric poop-ton faster than once a year Garmin updates. And when Google gonna that things have changed, they update it right away. Not six months later. They update as soon as it's confirmed. DevOps is a huge deal in the IT space right now and chief about it's principles is CI/CD, continuous integration/continuous deployment. Companies less on the bleeding edge of technology than Google aren't waiting for maintenance windows and taking down servers to install updates. Everything gets installed live on production systems during business hours. The updates are happening all the time as soon as they are vetted, but not before. And vetting the updates is infinitely faster because we aren't relying on a company to generate it's own data and make is own update. Users generate the content for the update in real time for mapping software because no company will have as many sensors on the road as every driver with a smart phone.

Becoming a contributor for Google maps means you spend a few months doing little things like confirming that a business is actually on the spot they marked it at, adding business hours, or confirming what kind of business it is. Not making new data, but verifying old data. That way, turds get weeded out quickly. For example, 1000 people said it's a bookstore but you said it's a car dealership? Doesn't sound right, you're being ignored.

Again, I don't want to own or be forced into using a self driving car. To hell with that. However, criticizing Google maps or Waze as inherently flawed products with slow cycle times, severely out of date data, and unverified data is inaccurate.

And if you aren't using Google maps or Waze, you're really wasting your own time and money.

 

[Loyal]

My point wasn't that it would work great, simply that every concern you brought up has been worked around. There are new and exciting problems, but they aren't the ones you mentioned Loyal.

Actually nothing like Wikipedia. Not instant, not any citizen, not unverified changes that get corrected by a tiny unpaid workforce.

This is how Google maps works right now. It's not theoretical maybe future stuff. It's what's really happening when 99% of America uses their GPS right now. The city doesn't update the map. The drivers drive on new roads, Google employees (or algorithms, who knows) checks to see if plans have been filled there by the city, then they send a Google Street View car out there. It's not instant, but it's a metric poop-ton faster than once a year Garmin updates. And when Google gonna that things have changed, they update it right away. Not six months later. They update as soon as it's confirmed. DevOps is a huge deal in the IT space right now and chief about it's principles is CI/CD, continuous integration/continuous deployment. Companies less on the bleeding edge of technology than Google aren't waiting for maintenance windows and taking down servers to install updates. Everything gets installed live on production systems during business hours. The updates are happening all the time as soon as they are vetted, but not before. And vetting the updates is infinitely faster because we aren't relying on a company to generate it's own data and make is own update. Users generate the content for the update in real time for mapping software because no company will have as many sensors on the road as every driver with a smart phone.

Becoming a contributor for Google maps means you spend a few months doing little things like confirming that a business is actually on the spot they marked it at, adding business hours, or confirming what kind of business it is. Not making new data, but verifying old data. That way, turds get weeded out quickly. For example, 1000 people said it's a bookstore but you said it's a car dealership? Doesn't sound right, you're being ignored.

Again, I don't want to own or be forced into using a self driving car. To hell with that. However, criticizing Google maps or Waze as inherently flawed products with slow cycle times, severely out of date data, and unverified data is inaccurate.

And if you aren't using Google maps or Waze, you're really wasting your own time and money.

Johnny and I have been to most of the same places....I don't need those GPS things anymore!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov4epAJRPMw