Demoff on Fisher

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dieterbrock

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Oh your talking about 2011 when fisher wasn't even here yet.
Again, you're missing the point. When Fisher took over the team, Bradford had just missed the majority of the season, and the Clemens and Feeley were terrible in relief. So he kept Clemens. Didn't cover his bases when he inherited the team with a QB who missed major time in 2 of his previous 3 seasons.

Look if fisher is retained, and it looks like he most likely will based of off Demoffs comments, and he doesn't have a winning record next year I will be the first one to admit I was wrong.
Well, why give in then? If Goff struggles, why not point to that? Surely we can point to teams that struggled in QB 1st and 2nd year. Why not give him another year after that?
Seems that most coaches get 2-3 years tops to improve or be gone, since we're blowing that out of the water, why not keep hoping for change?

Demoff's comments are unsettling for sure. I don't know if that was a market test or what, but it sure leads us to think its more likely than not the Fish is back
 

iamme33

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There are a great many fans here that know football and given all the information may be able to make informed decisions. There are exactly zero on here that know enough specifics to do just that. It's not a slight on the fans here or anywhere else. Don't try to make it out to be.


yeah but fans don't need to know the specifics to know if they like a philosophy or not. like keep it close and pull it out at the end vs take chances and play to win. I like staying aggressive and playing to win. seems like keep it close and pull it out at the end may let you beat teams you should lose to but you also lose to teams you should beat. I don't need to know specifics to think it's time to move on from keep it close.pluss 5 years of a losing record help me decide
 

LesBaker

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More like one team (other than us). That's the Cleveland Browns.

Jerry plenty of teams have poor history. The Cardinals. The Saints (fans wearing bags!), the Lions, and others. What changes their fortunes is not just the HC. It's almost always QB play.

Yep. The Cowboys lost in 2015 because their backup options were terrible. Now, tell me what they did about that.

They got lucky with a 4th round pick, and it happens although it's exceedingly rare. You cannot count on it, and you cannot plan on it, and you cannot do anything but HOPE a 4th round player makes the roster and can contribute a bit. If you think that player is going to be a star you DO NOT wait until the 4th round to select him. Because that kind of risk taking is bone headed. They got lucky on this one and that cannot be denied. Saying they somehow cleverly noticed a player nobody else did is fallacy, especially when Jerruh Jones is involved.

Lol what dude you brought up the cowboys not me. I just gave you an example of how they were a playoff team with Romo then went 4-12 when he got hurt. Plus if you look at it, Garrett took 6 years to find an adequate backup. And that back up is now their potential next franchise QB. Luck indeed.

Garrett could be an argument for HC stability right? Or an argument for how much a QB matters. I'll take the latter LOL Entering this season he was 45-43 overall and had one winning season in the 5 seasons where he was HC not interim HC when he took over halfway through 2010. And he's had Romo in his prime with some real talent at WR.

Prescott is a rare stroke of luck. Assuming he continues playing like he has, which to be honest is less likely than him coming back down to earth. Griffin should still be fresh in everyone's mind.


It didn't take them 6 years to find an adequate backup. They had Tony Romo. They didn't need to search for one.

Currently on the Cowboys roster behind Prescott are Cole Beasley and Mark Sanchez.

As far as not needing a backup because they had Romo I call bullshit. Romo has been beaten to death the last few years and has had a handful of major injuries/surgeries. He's also missed games and played dinged up badly but played anyway because the Cowboys backups have been crap.

You HAVE to have a backup for a guy like that.

And by the way I think Romo is one heck of a QB.
 

RamFan503

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Alright - I'll be done with this after I address these quotes. Like always, discussing things with you becomes an argument in futility. You glom onto something like Sammy Watkins or Teddy Bridgewater or any number of positions and try to form the argument to fit you. And I've got other posts to read in my limited time.
When did the Browns make the playoffs in the past 5-10 years?

You're moving the goal-posts again.
The only goal post I set was a slightly exaggerated one of not having sniffed the playoffs. I never said anything about any 5-10 year span. That was yours. The fact of the matter is that unfortunately, we are not alone in being out of the playoffs most years. And acting like simply changing head coaches gets us there is not born out in the NFL.

Like I said before, this is football, not rocket science.
And anyone who can cook can run a restaurant. Anyone who can make their garden look good can run a landscape firm. Right. Got it. I wish I knew it was that simple. It's utterly laughable.

As much as you repeat that the people running the show are experts and know so much more than the fans, it's not getting anywhere with me. It's simply not true.
I don't really care if it's getting anywhere with you. You have almost no clue about all it takes to run a football organization from the HC position. Neither do I and neither do 99.9% (actual stat I made up on the spot) of the fans.

Like I said before, this is football, not rocket science.
No. It's building the organization that makes the rockets. The rocket scientists work for the person in charge.

Spare me. You've spent the past few posts telling us all that fans don't know crap.
No. I've said that the fans aren't informed or experienced enough to make the decisions a HC is expected to make. We have some VERY knowledgeable fans on here. But does anyone want them to be our HC? Does anyone want them to actually choose our next HC? They may get it right. But there is no accountability and if they are wrong, they can simply rail against THAT guy.

I'm fairly sure most sensible fans know they are not as informed or trained in the field enough to actually make all the decisions an NFL exec or HC is responsible to make. Could they get up to speed faster than some of the dolts that have risen through the old boys network? Almost without a doubt. Are they there now? No.

I absolutely do. But continue putting these guys on a pedestal. You'd be shocked at how many unqualified people there are working in the NFL.
What pedestal? They are simply products of a system. Unfortunately for your argument, they are in the system and are privy to far more information and training than any of us.

The law isn't rocket science. I was a pre-law major in college before I changed it. Can I suddenly be an attorney?

Really good at evaluating talent. There are fans out there who are quite good at it. It's funny because you couldn't draft much worse than the Rams did during the 2000s if you tried. There were a ton of fans out there who could have picked better players than we did.
There are always draft mocks. You do many yourself. Are you telling me that your draft for a team always works out better than the team's actual draft? I'm pretty sure you've had some big misses in there or at minimum many players that have done far better than your picks.

Look back at the many mocks. There are some hits out there. But there are a ton of players none of us have ever heard of that get drafted and are making plays in the NFL. That doesn't mean that the fans aren't good at evaluating talent. Some seem quite adept at it and even find the hidden gems while some just regurgitate what they read. It simply means that the guys in the NFL have more information, greater networking, more time spent evaluating players throughout history, etc....

Most chefs that graduate from the most prestigious culinary schools in the world have no business opening a restaurant right out of school. That is not a knock on them. It's just a fact of life and business.

Baalke thought the control and power should be his.
You mean Baalke thought he should control his own job? The nerve.

I don't really care about the shit that went on in SF. If Harblow were to become our next HC, I wouldn't care about any of it and would only hope he was a team player that would get us consistently to the level we haven't been in some time. I'm a fan. I don't know everything that went on there and neither do you. If he comes here, I will simply cheer him as a Rams HC.
 

Young Ram

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Again, you're missing the point. When Fisher took over the team, Bradford had just missed the majority of the season, and the Clemens and Feeley were terrible in relief. So he kept Clemens. Didn't cover his bases when he inherited the team with a QB who missed major time in 2 of his previous 3 seasons.

He missed majority time in 1 of his 2 seasons. Bradford was entering his 3rd year when Fisher arrived unless you're talking about his last college season. His shoulder hasn't been a problem for him since and it's not like he had a significant injury in 2011 where he needed surgery. I don't know what a top flight back up would have done for the team in Fishers first year where he gutted most of the roster. But it's no surprise fisher's best season was when his QB played all 16 games. Go figure.

Well, why give in then? If Goff struggles, why not point to that? Surely we can point to teams that struggled in QB 1st and 2nd year. Why not give him another year after that?
Seems that most coaches get 2-3 years tops to improve or be gone, since we're blowing that out of the water, why not keep hoping for change?

Demoff's comments are unsettling for sure. I don't know if that was a market test or what, but it sure leads us to think its more likely than not the Fish is back

I won't make any excuses like that for him. He chose to sit Goff instead of playing him to get experience. Next year is a must win for him and I have said as much in other topics.
 

RamFan503

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Giving Fisher a pass on the QB situation is silly. He picked the QBs. Also the offense scored their most PPG in 2013 and 2014 when they had their "backup" QBs playing a large majority of games.
I agree. I also agree that the offense has been a mess under Fisher. Does the entire team get better under someone else? Maybe. Could it get a lot worse? Well, yeah - we've seen that play out - haven't we.

I think a lot of people are confusing someone saying they are not all in on firing Fisher for them saying they don't see the problems he's had. For myself, I just am a little reticent to think the fans or I know who would definitely get us over the hump.

It seems most of us acknowledge that this regime has built a team with a pretty high level of talent. Many if not most think it has taken too long to amass and we have gotten far too little reward from that 4 year overhaul. I agree but I also think there is possibly every bit as much of a chance that we get there quicker by holding pat than we do by taking on the next great experiment.

Could I be wrong? Well THAT would be a first. :whistle:
 
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RamFan503

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yeah but fans don't need to know the specifics to know if they like a philosophy or not. like keep it close and pull it out at the end vs take chances and play to win. I like staying aggressive and playing to win. seems like keep it close and pull it out at the end may let you beat teams you should lose to but you also lose to teams you should beat. I don't need to know specifics to think it's time to move on from keep it close.pluss 5 years of a losing record help me decide
Agreed. And I'm not saying you are wrong here. I think we have to have a mentality of putting our foot on a teams throat when the opportunity is there. We also need to be able to win close games. If I was dead certain a change at the top would get us there (or any other change for that matter) I would be all over it. But I'm not so I'm going to watch this all play out and see what transpires in the off season.

I mean - I'm not going anywhere. Keep Fish, fire Fish, promote Fish to head of football operations, clean house, hire Harbaugh, hire Shaw...... I'll be here right along with most if not all of you hoping my team kicks some ass each and every week.
 

dieterbrock

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He missed majority time in 1 of his 2 seasons. Bradford was entering his 3rd year when Fisher arrived unless you're talking about his last college season. His shoulder hasn't been a problem for him since and it's not like he had a significant injury in 2011 where he needed surgery..
He missed time and the Rams were trash without him. So Fisher kept the QB who played awful in his absence. Not good.
I don't know what a top flight back up would have done for the team in Fishers first year where he gutted most of the roster..
So now all he needs is a top flight RB and top flight QB? That's all?
But it's no surprise fisher's best season was when his QB played all 16 games. Go figure.
Right and his best season was his first, which was only half a game better than Spags best season 2 years earlier.
You're not making a very compelling argument here...
 

Rmfnlt

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Some of you guys have gone off the deep end with your Fisher hate.

It's become quite obvious that nothing Fisher does or will do will be given the benefit of the doubt by those of you who want him gone.
Pretty normal, really.

There seems to be some tipping point with regard to the coach/fan relationship once losing becomes a habit.

I remember trying to defend Spags... but it had gotten so bad that no one wanted to hear one good word about the man. I'm pretty sure he started WWII :LOL:
To this day, his name evokes insults (guessing someone might take a stab right here).

Once that dislike (I'll try to stay away from the word "hate") ball starts rolling down the hill, it's awfully hard to stop.

I know this site would much prefer not to have so much dislike and repetitiveness... but it's normal.

What I hope these events and the dislike do not do is pit one fan against another. I was on the losing end of that one and it ain't fun.

So, while I want him gone (I've probably been a detractor longer than anyone here), I won't attack the fans that are defending him... it's their right as fans to do that.
 

Young Ram

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He missed time and the Rams were trash without him. So Fisher kept the QB who played awful in his absence. Not good.

And then went out to try to correct the problem. He failed with Foles. He could succeed with Goff. It's not like he wasn't trying.

So now all he needs is a top flight RB and top flight QB? That's all?

I don't understand this question. Are you saying he needs a top flight QB NOW? Yea I think so. The defense and special teams are set.

Right and his best season was his first, which was only half a game better than Spags best season 2 years earlier.

Spags best season. A season where the NFC West champ was 7-9.

You're not making a very compelling argument here...

Of course I'm not if it doesn't fit with your opinion.
 

FRO

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I agree. I also agree that the offense has been a mess under Fisher. Does the entire team get better under someone else? Maybe. Could it get a lot worse? Well, yeah - we've seen that play out - haven't we.

I think a lot of people are confusing someone saying they are not all in on firing Fisher for them saying they don't see the problems he's had. For myself, I just am a little reticent to think the fans or I know who would definitely get us over the hump.

It seems most of us acknowledge that this regime has built a team with a pretty high level of talent. Many if not most think it has taken too long to amass and we have gotten far too little reward from that 4 year overhaul. I agree but I also think there is possibly every bit as much of a chance that we get there quicker by holding pat than we do by taking on the next great experiment.

Could I be wrong? Well THAT would be a first. :whistle:
The next coach very well could be much worse. Spags and Linehan were. I think it's a risk you take though. Where you are now isn't cutting it. The next coach could be worse, or much better. Make the move and hope for the latter.
 

Rmfnlt

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Its better for the league if the team in Hollywood is playing well. From a marketing perspective down the line. Its doesn't do them any good for them to lose
Of course not. Just that it's very early.
 

Dieter the Brock

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And this kind of what I mean.
You don't know what his intentions were.

The facts are that Goff did have a lot to learn, did come in younger and skinnier and knew nothing about protections, etc.

When the kid got to play, he looks prepared.

We both disagreed with Fishers decision, but that his intentions were self centered is not something that you can pass off as fact.

Bad coach? Fine.
But he very well might have had the best intentions that were purely motivated by what he thought was best for the Rams and not Jeff Fisher.

Fisher might not deserve to keep his job, but I just don't know why he has to be despised as a person....

Where does Sean Mannion fit into "Fishers Best Intentions" ??

Look how Fisher is developing this kid's career and you know that's what you're implying with Goff is untrue.

What are Fisher's intentions with the former 3rd round pick? Does Sean Mannion know protections by now? Is he too skinny to play?
 

badnews

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Where does Sean Mannion fit into "Fishers Best Intentions" ??

Look how Fisher is developing this kid's career and you know that's what you're implying with Goff is untrue.

What are Fisher's intentions with the former 3rd round pick? Does Sean Mannion know protections by now? Is he too skinny to play?

I think he was insurance and the coaches don't rate him better than the other 2 and they are only going to dress 2?
In my opinion, that's why.

Why is Sean Mannion deserving of play time and extra development, things that are never guaranteed for a 3rd round pick?
 

jrry32

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You glom onto something like Sammy Watkins or Teddy Bridgewater or any number of positions and try to form the argument to fit you.

Your memory betrays you. I fought with the Sammy Watkins guys (namely RFIP). I wanted Jake Matthews.

The fact of the matter is that unfortunately, we are not alone in being out of the playoffs most years. And acting like simply changing head coaches gets us there is not born out in the NFL.

The fact of the matter is that we are alone in not having a winning season in the past decade. The fact of the matter is that giving a coach who posted 5 straight losing seasons in his first 5 years a 6th year hasn't been done in the last 50 years in the NFL.

So no, in our situation, changing coaches at this point actually is what's born out in the NFL.

The law isn't rocket science. I was a pre-law major in college before I changed it. Can I suddenly be an attorney?

Due to certain laws, no. However, if you spent your free time training to be an attorney for a sustained period of time, you could certainly do what attorneys do.

There are always draft mocks. You do many yourself. Are you telling me that your draft for a team always works out better than the team's actual draft? I'm pretty sure you've had some big misses in there or at minimum many players that have done far better than your picks.

Nope. I've had years where I did better. Years where I did worse. I don't doubt the Rams have more information and resources. That's not the point here. Hell, I actually have been content with how this FO has drafted.

The point here is that you are giving these guys a lot more credit than they deserve. You're treating them as if they're experts about something the fans simply couldn't begin to understand.

Most chefs that graduate from the most prestigious culinary schools in the world have no business opening a restaurant right out of school. That is not a knock on them. It's just a fact of life and business.

And the fans have no business running a football team (some certainly could be working in the league, though) because they don't know the ins and outs of the job running the organization. However, that doesn't mean that they're incapable of judging whether a coach should be retained or fired. Just like I'm sure those chefs are capable of telling if a dish the restaurant is serving should be scrapped or retained.