Day - 2 TRADE UP - Zack Baun

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den-the-coach

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I'm still not over us dumping Ron Jaworski....

Loved Jaws, should have traded Pat Haden instead. Never liked Haden, he led to the trading of Jaworski & James Harris, plus the Rams because they still had Haden allowed Ferragamo to go to Cananda.....I could not stand Pat Haden, not now, not ever!
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Allen2McVay

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I'm still not over us dumping Ron Jaworski....
I was thrilled when they got Charlie Young in that trade. Young caught passes for the Eagles before he was with the Rams; and for the Niners and Seahawks after the Rams.
 

Loyal

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Loved Jaws, should have traded Pat Haden instead. Never liked Haden, he led to the trading of Jaworski & James Harris, plus the Rams because they still had Haden allowed Ferragamo to go to Cananda.....I could not stand Pat Haden, not now, not ever!
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We might have won a Super Bowl with him, if Haden had been dumped...
 

den-the-coach

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We might have won a Super Bowl with him, if Haden had been dumped...

I believe that too, Carroll Rosenbloom loved Pat Haden, watched him bring the Trojans back in college and him being a Rhode Scholar, but it was Haden that did not get along with George Allen in 1978 and it was Haden that campaigned for Ray Malavasi to get the job....I believe he was behind Allen's firing because Allen asked him to pick up a hot dog wrapper that was blowing around the practice field.
 

bomebadeeda

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I'm just trying to figure out if Dieter the Brock is the same as Deiter Brock??? Plus, one (or both) of them just changed their avatar, so I'm very confused!!!
One of them have a cat...... (of sorts)
 

FarNorth

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Just don’t remember it that way.
Steamed? Yes.
At Snead? Do not recall reading that.

Now, I would expect that the GM negotiated the trade-down; and I can believe Snead recommended it. However, Fisher had to OK it.

Fisher was hired in January, and Snead a month later. Fisher was the big hire. Snead was hired to work with him. Fisher made the final decisions. That was their first draft.

Maybe Fisher was angry but he had to sign off. I did a quick check but the only article I found was a Mike Silver article about the decision to select Maurice Alexander (the purpose of my original post).

It quoted Fisher as saying he would be ‘angry’ if they lost Alexander. Demoff asked ‘how angry’ and Fisher replied ‘Bobby Wagner angry’.

No mention of Snead or blame.

I agree with your research and source but not your interpretation. Some context:

The Rams initially had picks 33, 39, and 45 in the 2012 draft (after earlier trading their first rounder.). They used 33 on Brian Quick and 39 on Janoris Jenkins. They then traded down to No. 50, here as reported at the time by Bleacher Report:

"Round 2, Pick 45: Traded to Chicago Bears

The Rams picked up another fifth-round pick by moving back five spots. This is a great move, provided they don't lose out on a player they are targeting.
With the top offensive line prospects coming off the board before this pick, the Rams are either re-grouping or have a player in mind that will be available a bit later in Round 2."


The SeaHawks then took Wagner at 47, leaving the Rams to take Isaiah Pead at 50.

I doubt that Fisher was angry at himself over this, and have no doubt he was the one pushing for Wagner given his reaction and his greater involvement in the defense. Moreover, this is a typical Snead tactical draft day maneuver we have seen many times after Fisher left. Not least, while I agree Fisher signed off on picks, Snead as GM was more responsible for the actual execution of the draft. No one else on the RAMS could have advocated and executed the trade down.

But your inferences may vary.

I will say this, no matter who was responsible for that trade down: One instance of losing a player like Bobby Wagner to gain an extra fifth round pick IMO more than negates any potential advantage gained from lots of similar gambling on draft day maneuvers. It also illustrates a number of principles relevant, actually, RIGHT NOW:

1. If you have a chance to draft an impact player do it.
2. Don't play Russian roulette to gain a late round pick at the risk of losing an outstanding player.
3. Trading down is not always a great idea or even a good idea. In fact it can be a truly bad idea.
4. Second round picks are far more valuable than late round picks.
5. A single correct second round pick, if you nail it on a true impact player, can be worth more than any number of late round picks.

I hope Snead doesn't screw around in this fashion today.
 
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jrry32

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If we move up, the only sort of guy I'd move up for is Yetur Gross-Matos. This draft doesn't have much EDGE depth.

I should add the caveat that I am not advocating we do (I'm too conflicted on YGM), but I think that is the sort of move that is justifiable.
 

Gandalf

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Well, Snead has owned this, many times over, so maybe he’s just a bitch. I don’t know.
The Rams front office always shows good leadership by stepping up and taking responsibility for failure. McVay does it all the time as well. That said, I don't know who's fault it is. I do think drafting has gotten better since Fish's departure.
 

Allen2McVay

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I agree with your research and source but not your interpretation. Some context:

The Rams initially had picks 33, 39, and 45 in the 2012 draft (after earlier trading their first rounder.). They used 33 on Brian Quick and 39 on Janoris Jenkins. They then traded down to No. 50, here as reported at the time by Bleacher Report:

"Round 2, Pick 45: Traded to Chicago Bears

The Rams picked up another fifth-round pick by moving back five spots. This is a great move, provided they don't lose out on a player they are targeting.
With the top offensive line prospects coming off the board before this pick, the Rams are either re-grouping or have a player in mind that will be available a bit later in Round 2."


The SeaHawks then took Wagner at 47, leaving the Rams to take Isaiah Pead at 50.

I doubt that Fisher was angry at himself over this, and have no doubt he was the one pushing for Wagner given his reaction and his greater involvement in the defense. Moreover, this is a typical Snead tactical draft day maneuver we have seen many times after Fisher left. Not least, while I agree Fisher signed off on picks, Snead as GM was more responsible for the actual execution of the draft. No one else on the RAMS could have advocated and executed the trade down.

But your inferences may vary.

I will say this, no matter who was responsible for that trade down: One instance of losing a player like Bobby Wagner to gain an extra fifth round pick IMO more than negates any potential advantage gained from lots of similar gambling on draft day maneuvers. It also illustrates a number of principles relevant, actually, RIGHT NOW:

1. If you have a chance to draft an impact player do it.
2. Don't play Russian roulette to gain a late round pick at the risk of losing an outstanding player.
3. Trading down is not always a great idea or even a good idea. In fact it can be a truly bad idea.
4. Second round picks are far more valuable than late round picks.
5. A single correct second round pick, if you nail it on a true impact player, can be worth more than any number of late round picks.

I hope Snead doesn't screw around in this fashion today.
We are definitely on different wave lengths here but I agree with many of your thoughts.

Where I strongly disagree is my opinion that Fisher could have said ‘No, I do not want to risk losing him. We’re taking Wagner.’

It had to be Fisher’s final call.

Agree with your thought that you have to take a player (and not risk losing him) that you feel strongly about.

That was the point of my original post on this topic. Fisher felt strongly about Maurice Alexander and made the final call.
 

Memento

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Before y'all slam Snead for missing out on Bobby Wagner, remember that Fisher was pounding the table for Justin Blackmon.

I'll take Snead's side over Fisher's any day and especially on Sundays.
 

Merlin

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I'm just trying to figure out if Dieter the Brock is the same as Deiter Brock??? Plus, one (or both) of them just changed their avatar, so I'm very confused!!!
Yeah of all the great Rams players of yesteryear it's kind of funny to see two posters repping Deiter here. I thought they were one account for a while lol, very confusing.
 

Merlin

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The fucked up thing here is that I am sure the Rams agree with many of the takes on the players you see bandied about on this site and elsewhere. But they might elect to not address a given position until round 3 because of how it affords them to get a better overall haul in quality. They're seeing a bigger picture basically and also know FAR more than we do of the actual (as Snead puts it) human beings.

So for trading up purposes it's about guys they see as either difficult to find position (like LT), or major impact to the team in 2020 (need plus fit plus value on their board), or a position that sees big dropoff after said player goes off the board. So the last element IMO means that it's unlikely they move up for an Edge, Center, RB for example because there's badass options into round 3. Barring them falling in love with a prospect which I think is a mostly bad thing to do.

WR btw to my eye at least has some dropoff from some of these names who will go round 2 vs the round 3 names.
 

Mojo Ram

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Steelers and Ravens always seem to have the best LB's drop into their laps. Maybe it's time to literally get ahead of that.