Covid 19 thread

[XXXIVwin]

The internet is absolutely not representative of reality.

 

[kurtfaulk]

A guy I know where I live got tested for his work.
When he received his paperwork showing a negative result he was given other papers......guess what the one with CDC recommendations said.....??

what?

.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Bullseye. In a country with 320 million people that makes 320 million different personalities. Most are reasonable. The ones who are not are a small minority but recordings of them go viral making everyone think its rampant behavior.

From my POV, it is a lack of widespread “reasonable behavior” that has been the driving factor behind the huge surge of Covid cases in the USA for the last few weeks. A heck of a lot of Americans aren’t taking either social distancing or mask wearing seriously.


The EU has opened up, they’re doing reasonably well, while the USA numbers are skyrocketing. This chart is from a few days ago, before we hit 50 k per day:

If “unreasonable behavior” was truly a rare phenomenon, the USA wouldn’t be seeing this gigantic surge in cases. IMHO.

 

[Mackeyser]

View attachment 37204

Is it bad that I looked at that and thought "that's not the Matrix... not any Japanese characters...

What's funny is that the katakana characters are for sushi recipes...LOL

Who knew we were all living in a simulation that's basically a sushi variant of Diner Dash... crazy...

 

[dieterbrock]

That’s IF the requirements are enforced....

That wasn’t your point.
The “freedom” post was implying there is a choice as it pertains to food safety hazards. There isn’t. The regulations are code and are enforced.
May as well said you have the freedom to drive drunk, rob a bank, kill another person etc.

 

[dieterbrock]

I traveled a bit yesterday and in my stops everywhere I'd say 90%+were wearing a mask, not including staff.

Sooo id like to think the internet is not representative of the real world.

Exactly.
But that’s not news worthy.
Mass Media & Social Media Focuses solely on the negative.
Fear sells

 

[12intheBox]

That wasn’t your point.
The “freedom” post was implying there is a choice as it pertains to food safety hazards. There isn’t. The regulations are code and are enforced.
May as well said you have the freedom to drive drunk, rob a bank, kill another person etc.

well, yeah. The post came on the heels of asking a member if he would wear a mask if it were mandated by law and the answer was “no” ....

and we have many states mandating masks and in some places law enforcement coming out and publicly stating that law won’t be enforced.

so - the freedom cafe is not a real place - just an analogy to drive the point home - but somewhat poignant, don’t you think?

 

[1maGoh]

That wasn’t your point.
The “freedom” post was implying there is a choice as it pertains to food safety hazards. There isn’t. The regulations are code and are enforced.
May as well said you have the freedom to drive drunk, rob a bank, kill another person etc.

Oh, see I assumed his point with the freedom cafe was that coding not to wear a mask (a public health safety precaution) was as soon as allowing restaurants to violate health safety codes. I bet most if not all people who don't want to wear a mask still want to eat at places that follow safety regulations. Likening the masks to something they understand and want might help them get out of their own way about wearing a mask.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Exactly.
But that’s not news worthy.
Mass Media & Social Media Focuses solely on the negative.
Fear sells

Yes, and not just the negative, the media machine will deliberately pick and choose and "sell" particular instances or categories of negative news while deliberately ignoring and not selling other negative news. All of which is happening everywhere all the time.

Rapes, homicides, home invasions, assaults, gang warfare, police brutality, kidnapping, homelessness, poverty, animal cruelty, missing persons, car fatalities, cancer, AIDS, influenza, corporate crime, the war on drugs, hate crimes, race related violence, child pornography, airline crashes etc etc etc.

This stuff happens all the time, yet you turn on the news at any given period of time and the media will sell missing children as all of a sudden being a big problem. You'll get story after story about missing children for a little while. These reports are fact, and will successfully sell the fear that something is awry and something has to be done about it. Then maybe a week or a month later they will move to home invasions and boost the reporting of that...meanwhile children are still going missing everywhere. Meanwhile...women are being raped in your community. Meanwhile...10 people died on your freeway last week.

Sometimes this fear propaganda machine is programmed to last years at a time and then suddenly disappear from our consciousness. AIDS for example or gang violence. While it's true that there are trends and peaks and valleys of instances of all these things...they have never gone away or subsided.

Covid. Cases and deaths. That's all we need to know. Meanwhile....

 

[dieterbrock]

well, yeah. The post came on the heels of asking a member if he would wear a mask if it were mandated by law and the answer was “no” ....

and we have many states mandating masks and in some places law enforcement coming out and publicly stating that law won’t be enforced.

so - the freedom cafe is not a real place - just an analogy to drive the point home - but somewhat poignant, don’t you think?

No, it’s not poignant, the analogy is false. if an employee purposely cooked chicken to 100 degrees and served it, they would face termination and potentially worse. Would the analogy be poignant if it was compared to drunk driving?
Wearing or not wearing a mask is not a legality issue as it pertains to the user, but for the establishment who reserves the right to not allow patronage to those refusing.
Surely someone in the legal field can understand the distinction and how vastly opposing the two ideas are. Not similar

 

[Neil039]

@Mojo Ram

Spot on! Media has free fallen in the credibility department. When being profitable became the only driving force for their "reporting". It’s a shame.

 

[Angry Ram]

So now in Oklahoma, it's kinda hit or miss. In Tulsa, if people are in a store I'd say just over 60% or so are wearing a mask. All staff are, though. Sanitizer is everywhere, that's for sure.

But they are holding kids soccer games, and people are gathering in pretty big groups (~100 or so) across various soccer fields.

Those small AF towns that I drove through on Friday, tho...not one bit. Everyone was gathering in tents buying fireworks.

 

[12intheBox]

No, it’s not poignant, the analogy is false. if an employee purposely cooked chicken to 100 degrees and served it, they would face termination and potentially worse. Would the analogy be poignant if it was compared to drunk driving?
Wearing or not wearing a mask is not a legality issue as it pertains to the user, but for the establishment who reserves the right to not allow patronage to those refusing.
Surely someone in the legal field can understand the distinction and how vastly opposing the two ideas are. Not similar

I can’t speak to every state - but where I practice, if a mask mandate or a stay at home order is issued by the governor or a municipality - failure to follow that mandate is a class 2 misdemeanor.

some laws - like the health code - is put in place for the benefit of public health and safety.

A mask mandate would be one of those.

choosing not to follow either one would be a violation of law - and of common regard for the well being of others.

DWI laws are another good comparison.

granted, if the mask order is merely a suggestion and not a mandate, then it’s not the same thing. But when a mandate is in place - it is a legality issue as it pertains to the user.

edit:

I am aware of multiple arrests (and am even defending a few of them) of violation of the stay at home order which has since been lifted. Currently, our mask mandate isn’t - and maybe this was your point - written to the individual level and is only being enforced via trespass laws. At the city level, a mask mandate is being enforced to the individual level as a violation of city code (Punishable as a class 3 misdemeanor).

The authority is there for the governor to issue such a statewide mandate which would punish non compliance criminally the same way as a violation of a stay at home order but he hasn’t gone to that level yet.

 

[dieterbrock]

I can’t speak to every state - but where I practice, if a mask mandate or a stay at home order is issued by the governor or a municipality - failure to follow that mandate is a class 2 misdemeanor.

some laws - like the health code - is put in place for the benefit of public health and safety.

A mask mandate would be one of those.

choosing not to follow either one would be a violation of law - and of common regard for the well being of others.

DWI laws are another good comparison.

granted, if the mask order is merely a suggestion and not a mandate, then it’s not the same thing. But when a mandate is in place - it is a legality issue as it pertains to the user.

edit:

I am aware of multiple arrests (and am even defending a few of them) of violation of the stay at home order which has since been lifted. Currently, our mask mandate isn’t - and maybe this was your point - written to the individual level and is only being enforced via trespass laws. At the city level, a mask mandate is being enforced to the individual level as a violation of city code (Punishable as a class 3 misdemeanor).

The authority is there for the governor to issue such a statewide mandate which would punish non compliance criminally the same way as a violation of a stay at home order but he hasn’t gone to that level yet.

You’re moving the goal posts all over the place here.
The “freedom cafe” is not a constructive analogy, because it’s making an extremely false impression of food handling and the subjectivity of its rules and regulations.
internal temperature of chicken to be served is not negotiable, it doesn’t differ from state to state. Nor are rules to prevent cross contamination, or required temperature for cleaning and sanitizing.
OSHA and the FDA have set the guidelines And failure to comply can have devastating results for an operation.
Mask wearing is not a uniformly mandatory requirement, it’s not comparable. That was not a constructive attempt at rationalizing wearing the mask, it was merely shit stirring. Which seems to be a common theme to your POV on the matter where you consistently focus on the negative

 

[12intheBox]

well - kind of.

discretion on the part of both law enforcement and prosecutors is important. I don’t want a society where police are forced to issue citations on every violation of law that they see.

but - what has happened is that policing has gotten political. A democratic sheriff won’t enforce laws written by republicans and vice versa. Sometimes the end result of that may be something I find favorable but that just means I’m fine with a crappy system as long as I get my way in it.

I think the sheriffs who refuse to enforce these laws would say they conflict with the constitution - which is the supreme law of the land. That’s the out I hear most often, anyway.

@Dieter the Brock - thanks for you constructive criticism. I’ll try to be more positive - it’s just hard in an epidemic where the problem is getting worse while other countries are getting it under control. Might do me some good to take a break from our chats.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I think the sheriffs who refuse to enforce these laws would say they conflict with the constitution - which is the supreme law of the land. That’s the out I hear most often, anyway.

I'm not really sure how this applies from any legal standpoint. If their argument is that they cannot enforce any laws that aren't expressly laid out in the Constitution, then clearly there's going to be issues there. I don't see anything in the Constitution that says that the government can't do this, and given that there is precedent regarding individual liberties vs public safety, and public safety was deemed more important, there seems to be legal justification in the case of any type or challenge there.

Someone I'm sure has an argument for why, but I can't see any legitimate argument against it other than it boiling down to someone just wanting to be "that guy". Every other complaint I've seen can be easily remedied, and I'm not someone to accepts laziness as an acceptable answer.

 

[12intheBox]

I'm not really sure how this applies from any legal standpoint. If their argument is that they cannot enforce any laws that aren't expressly laid out in the Constitution, then clearly there's going to be issues there. I don't see anything in the Constitution that says that the government can't do this, and given that there is precedent regarding individual liberties vs public safety, and public safety was deemed more important, there seems to be legal justification in the case of any type or challenge there.

Someone I'm sure has an argument for why, but I can't see any legitimate argument against it other than it boiling down to someone just wanting to be "that guy". Every other complaint I've seen can be easily remedied, and I'm not someone to accepts laziness as an acceptable answer.

it’s generally something that they find that conflicts - in their opinion - with the constitution.

its Generally a BS argument (although laws get struck down every year because they are determined to be in conflict with the constitution - it’s almost always some sheriff on one side or another playing to his or her political base to try to get re elected.

 

[bluecoconuts]

it’s generally something that they find that conflicts - in their opinion - with the constitution.

its Generally a BS argument (although laws get struck down every year because they are determined to be in conflict with the constitution - it’s almost always some sheriff on one side or another playing to his or her political base to try to get re elected.

That makes more sense.

 

[SWAdude]

@Mojo Ram

Spot on! Media has free fallen in the credibility department. When being profitable became the only driving force for their "reporting". It’s a shame.

The media giants are so much more powerful than they were before the internet and cable news. And it was far less biased. It was more about telling an interesting story.

I believe the internet and cable news is largely, if not solely, responsible for the large division we are witnessing. People are losing lifelong friends and relatives over the wearing of a mask. That would have been unbelievable 35 years ago.

Not only was news slow with the delivery of the morning newspaper or the broadcasting of the evening news, it was delivered with the flavor of news which you really had no choice. Now not only do you get to choose the many different flavors, it is instant 24/7. Choose your flavor of fear. Always readily available.

These forums are different flavors of editorial pages. Nothing less.

Trying to have an honest discussion about politics or social issues on these forums only leaves one vulnerable without anything to gain.

GO RAMS!!!