Covid 19 thread

[dieterbrock]

I'm never dead set on anything, but if you have contradictory data that supports your evidence, please show me. Speaking of being dead set, are you willing to change your mind?

The United States currently leads the world in death rate over the last 7 days.

My service to this country means nothing in this sense, don't feel like you can't say something to me because I served, service members don't need to be, and shouldn't be, deified, it's fine.

Blaming it all on NYC makes absolutely no sense, and serves zero purpose right now. It does not matter where the virus came from, it matters what is happening right now. The virus isn't spreading in these other cities because some New Yorkers are running around down there coughing. They're spreading because people are being foolish. UW is having an outbreak in Greek Row, over 120 students in the last few days, because they decided to throw parties the other week. Arizona is having an outbreak because they opened their bars and people flocked to them. Florida is having an outbreak because people packed beaches. The virus is spreading because people are not doing the right thing. It is not some great mystery.

This country has a long history of abandoning people in need, our elders, our children, our veterans, it's a pretty common practice. Maybe that says something.

Dont read much huh?
We have been in quarantine/stay at home/economic disaster mode since basically the 2nd week of March, 4 months. And you are going to use a stat of the last 7 days to define the United States?? Thats just ridiculous. And its hysterical that you question my lack of data (when I provided my source before) and dont provide any of your own. I guess you get your news from Facebook.
Well, here is where I get my data on the Worldwide "death rate"
Per 100k population, the US is 9th, behind countries such as the UK, Spain, Italy and France

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

,
In the last 7 days, there have been 2,062 deaths associated to Covid 19, with a population of approx 330 million folks, that rate wont pull up on a calculator.

Totals for the US

Daily totals for all metrics collected from January 2020 to the present.

covidtracking.com

And who's "blaming" NYC? Its factual that the NYC proper, (Which includes North East NJ and Long Island) accounted for nearly 25% of the total death count in the US. An area which is less than 400 square miles accounted for 25% of the entire country.
Its not blame, its logical reasoning. Blaming an entire country for an outbreak in one area? Thats beyond thick.
Point #2 is also quite valid. In upwards of 40-45% of the covid deaths have been associated to facilities/nursing homes/assisted living centers, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html where several states NY/NJ/Michigan were following what they percieved the CDC guidelines in sending the infected back to the facilities
There are many logical reasons for the data shift, but unreasonable people dont want to hear it. I get it. Follow the herd stuff. Its always easy to pick out negatives.
Testing is up, way up. People are being tested and showing positive though asymptomatic. People are being considered positive tests if they have the corona antibodies even though they were never sick.
The CDC was wrong (again) about the virus ability to survive when the temperatures rose.
Maybe, there is another way the virus spreads? The kids were partying up for spring break when the shit hit the fan, Florida kept their beaches/bars open way longer than most thought they should. The governor was criticized heavily for it. Some were calling him the Mayor from Jaws. But then they didnt get hit, and now they are. Strange.
And again, NY/NJ had hundreds of thousands in the streets and the counts are remarkably low considering where they had been.

 

[SteezyEndo]

Testing is up, way up. People are being tested and showing positive though asymptomatic. People are being considered positive tests if they have the corona antibodies even though they were never sick.

I know of 2 people from work who got tested. Both negative (apparently) yet had the symptoms as the professionals listed. The most recent individual who just tested and came back negative is required to stay home til further notice. I just wonder if the method of this test is consistent enough?

 

[bluecoconuts]

Dont read much huh?
We have been in quarantine/stay at home/economic disaster mode since basically the 2nd week of March, 4 months. And you are going to use a stat of the last 7 days to define the United States?? Thats just ridiculous.

Yeah, you know me, I totally don't read enough. Lets get into that type of discussion.

Yes, I'm going to look at recent data to focus on what is happening right now. There's a reason why there are graphs out there with all these other countries having cases go up and then come back down, except America goes up, and then stays up. Why are you pretending like that graph doesn't exist?

And its hysterical that you question my lack of data (when I provided my source before) and dont provide any of your own. I guess you get your news from Facebook.
Well, here is where I get my data on the Worldwide "death rate"
Per 100k population, the US is 9th, behind countries such as the UK, Spain, Italy and France

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

You know what's really hysterical? Here's a history lesson since you forgot what happened Friday:

My question stands to anyone who sanely wants to answer it - i have not been able to find this info anywhere —
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Testing

Here we show the share of reported tests returning a positive result – known as the positive rate.

ourworldindata.org

Novel Coronavirus Outbreak 2020 (COVID-19) :: Washington State Department of Health

Yikes bro, looks like you got your sources from me there big guy. But yeah, I probably don't know about those sources, and I certainly wouldn't know anything about interpreting data or anything either huh? I mean, it's not like I literally do that every day at my job or anything though, that would be something crazy.

And who's "blaming" NYC? Its factual that the NYC proper, (Which includes North East NJ and Long Island) accounted for nearly 25% of the total death count in the US. An area which is less than 400 square miles accounted for 25% of the entire country.

You're claiming that the problem comes from not "containing the wildfire that is NYC" you said that like two posts ago. NYC is not what Florida and other states are getting hit now. I don't give a shit about total overall cases dating back from months ago, it would be like me asking for battle formations and tactics used during the Battle of Gaugamela before going on a mission in Iraq, it serves no purpose for what the situation is currently.

When everything is all said and done, sure, we can sit there and analyze things, and get a clearer picture of what happened and exactly what prompted different outbreaks. Right now? Maybe we should, I don't know, focus on the outbreaks?

If we're looking to put out a fire, do you think it's more productive to wonder what cause the fire to spread from one room to another, or to grab some hoses and put out the fire first before we start to unpack what happened?

In terms of your data of the U.S. being 9th behind everyone else... What exactly are you looking at?

 

[dieterbrock]

You know what's really hysterical? Here's a history lesson since you forgot what happened Friday:

Lol
I'm not @Dieter the Brock
But thanks for the compliment, he's a solid poster
Cmon man, read

In terms of your data of the U.S. being 9th behind everyone else... What exactly are you looking at?

Seriously, take a breath and read. Its not that difficult, I even supplied you a link...

Per 100k population, the US is 9th, behind countries such as the UK, Spain, Italy and France

 

[SteezyEndo]

What exactly are you looking at?

View attachment 37242

View attachment 37243

Why is China exempt from these graphs you show?

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Hey Rambo, how about stop posting bs or at least linking your laughable chart sources, just a thought, you know the rules here

How about commenting on —X— Twitter post, yet another DR coming out, crickets huh? Doesn’t fit your narrative? Of course even you know, this isn’t the first time a respectable Dr ( or two) has gone against the narrative, how do you explain this, that poor guy looked pretty credible to me, and so did the two ER Drs from Bakersfield a month ago, whom were banned from FB, lol.

And I really suck cuz I’d checked out of here, but as my no good commie buddy @XXXIVwin from the other side of the aisle has mentioned, this thread is addicting

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Why is China exempt from these graphs you show?

Boom

 

[dieterbrock]

Lastly,

You're claiming that the problem comes from not "containing the wildfire that is NYC" you said that like two posts ago.

And that's not what I said, thats "like" what you decided
What I ACTUALLY said in reference to not looking at the USA as one entity was:

The tragedy in the USA boils down to 2 major issues,
1. The inability to control the wildfire that was the New York City proper
2. The utter disgrace of how elders were returned to long term care facilities/nursing homes/assisted living centers
That wasnt Utah's fault, or Alaska, Idaho etc...

So at least have the courtesy to read what is written, and reply to the proper poster. Funny thing here is you've created an argument here with someone who entered a conversation with you by agreeing with your post

 

[dieterbrock]

Why is China exempt from these graphs you show?

And why do people insist on saying the USA has the worst death rate?
Worldwide, 11.6 mill positive tests, 537k fatalities, 4.6%
USA, 2.93 mill positive tests, 123k fatalities, 4.2%
So is almost half a percent lower than the World avg, but somehow its worst? Weird....

 

[SteezyEndo]

And why do people insist on saying the USA has the worst death rate?
Worldwide, 11.6 mill positive tests, 537k fatalities, 4.6%
USA, 2.93 mill positive tests, 123k fatalities, 4.2%
So is almost half a percent lower than the World avg, but somehow its worst? Weird....

Its a good conversation. When you don’t have sports. I am puzzled where these numbers come from when China and various other Asian countries are not included...

 

[Dieter the Brock]

View attachment 37239

You need to step away from the Katniss Everdene — that shit was a soap opera version of Battle Royale -
Battle Royale it’s such a better movie


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N0p1t-dC7Ko

 

[oldnotdead]

When all this sheltering in place began I created a small emergency kit for my girlfriend to keep in her car. Since I'm in the high-risk category she's been the one who has been going out to perform the necessary errands, like shopping, etc. I included a small spray bottle with steramine solution a common restaurant sterilizer, and one of my extra albuterol inhalers and a bottle of Tylenol and an electronic thermometer. As someone who suffers from asthma, I keep inhalers on hand. Before I left Mexico I bought several as they are very inexpensive and OTC there. The cheapest generic at Walmart Pharmacy was about $400 per inhaler. In Mexico, I could buy named brand inhalers in a 3 pack for $6 US per pack. This last batch for instance was Smith Kline made in Spain for CVS Pharmacy still in CVS packaging.

My girlfriend while out began feeling a bit off. The home we are staying in has a home office separate from the main residence in a separate room accessed via the garage. She self quarantined there on Thursday night. She used the steramine to sterilize the room and later that night her breathing difficulty set in with a temp spike. She took the Tylenol to control the fever and began to use the inhaler to assist in her breathing. Needless to say, I was beside myself with worry but today she is noticeably better.

I'm posting this so that people here can understand that there are things you can do short of going into a hospital. Immediately upon onset of symptoms, you must begin to treat symptomatically, i.e. Tylenol for fevers, and something like albuterol for breathing. Also the use of a common and relatively inexpensive sterilization solution to control the spread and reinfection. Don't use Ibuprofen as it seems only to exacerbate the symptoms. Acetaminophen is far superior to aspirin as a pain reliever and anti-inflammatory medication though aspirin is better than ibuprofen. Stay hydrated as you would with the flu. There were cases of water bottles in the room and I advised her to constantly sip water even if not particularly thirsty. Had she worsened we would have called 911 but she stabilized by Friday morning and has noticeably improved since. Being far younger than I, she was obviously able to withstand the onset far better than I would have.

After someone has fought off the initial onset they must stay resting for at least another 3-5 days after the initial illness has seemed to disappear. They can be reinfected and potentially can still be contagious during that time. Just be prepared and don't panic. Follow common sense protocols and treat symptomatically and most people can get through it.

The steramine solution tabs normally are mixed one tab per gallon for normal use. I double the amount to 2 tabs. It's one of the few sterilization solutions approved for HIV sterilization as well so it works on viruses.

I hope this information is of use.

 

[XXXIVwin]

as my no good commie buddy @XXXIVwin from the other side of the aisle has mentioned, this thread is addicting

Dude, u shoulda seen me when I read this! ROTFLMAO!

OC, u and I better not ever get into an argument or it would be a terrible sign for our country... we all need to retain a sense of humor

And yes, this thread is ridiculously addicting...
“maybe I can change their minds if I can just present my case clearly and carefully enough...”

 

[XXXIVwin]

Dont read much huh?
We have been in quarantine/stay at home/economic disaster mode since basically the 2nd week of March, 4 months. And you are going to use a stat of the last 7 days to define the United States?? Thats just ridiculous. And its hysterical that you question my lack of data (when I provided my source before) and dont provide any of your own. I guess you get your news from Facebook.
Well, here is where I get my data on the Worldwide "death rate"
Per 100k population, the US is 9th, behind countries such as the UK, Spain, Italy and France

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

,
In the last 7 days, there have been 2,062 deaths associated to Covid 19, with a population of approx 330 million folks, that rate wont pull up on a calculator.

Totals for the US

Daily totals for all metrics collected from January 2020 to the present.

covidtracking.com

And who's "blaming" NYC? Its factual that the NYC proper, (Which includes North East NJ and Long Island) accounted for nearly 25% of the total death count in the US. An area which is less than 400 square miles accounted for 25% of the entire country.
Its not blame, its logical reasoning. Blaming an entire country for an outbreak in one area? Thats beyond thick.
Point #2 is also quite valid. In upwards of 40-45% of the covid deaths have been associated to facilities/nursing homes/assisted living centers, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html where several states NY/NJ/Michigan were following what they percieved the CDC guidelines in sending the infected back to the facilities
There are many logical reasons for the data shift, but unreasonable people dont want to hear it. I get it. Follow the herd stuff. Its always easy to pick out negatives.
Testing is up, way up. People are being tested and showing positive though asymptomatic. People are being considered positive tests if they have the corona antibodies even though they were never sick.
The CDC was wrong (again) about the virus ability to survive when the temperatures rose.
Maybe, there is another way the virus spreads? The kids were partying up for spring break when the shit hit the fan, Florida kept their beaches/bars open way longer than most thought they should. The governor was criticized heavily for it. Some were calling him the Mayor from Jaws. But then they didnt get hit, and now they are. Strange.
And again, NY/NJ had hundreds of thousands in the streets and the counts are remarkably low considering where they had been.

Okay, on the surface it seems we disagree about nearly everything on this topic... but who knows, maybe OC is right and if we all went out to a bar and had a few beers (while social distancing of course!) maybe we’d find some common ground.

One thing I DO agree with u on is that overall deaths, and especially the mortality rate, is a decent “bottom line” indicator of how well a country is handling this. (I also agree that mortality rate is a better indicator than new infection rate. And yes, while overall cases have spiked recently in the USA, the mortality rate has not YET seen a corresponding spike).

But what does it say about the USA that we are the ninth WORST country in the world as far as mortality rate?!?! (And two of the “worse” countries are tiny little San Marino and Andorra)? I mean really, for those who still somehow try to argue that the USA is “handling this well,” is it really convincing to say, “a handful of other countries are doing even worse than we are?” There are literally hundreds of countries with a lower mortality rate.

[Again, please don’t say the USA is doing well if you “discount NYC.” Italy’s deaths would be almost cut in half if you “discount” Lombardy. And Sweden’s deaths
would almost be cut in half it you “discount” Stockholm.]

I also agree with you that the Johns Hopkins site seems like a good one for some reliable data. I am very concerned that over the coming weeks, the hospitalization rate and mortality rate will start to catch up with the spike in new cases. Hopefully it won’t be as bad as it was in April, since we have learned a few things about this disease and our treatments have gotten a little better. But if our mortality rates start to climb again, I think it will become harder and harder to argue that the USA is doing a “good job.”

We’ll see where we are a month from now.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Let me ask you this question Neil in all due respect — when has the media not been driven by profit? Better yet when has the media not been driven by profit and political influence?

Are you suggesting there was a time in American history or prior that there was pure and objective reporting? I am talking about publishing, broadcasting, and now the internet.

Check out dudes like Horace Greeley or William Randolph Hearst. I mean are you kidding me?

I find it amusing that there’s all this crying and weeping wah wah about the unfair or biased media or it being non-credible — It’s hilarious. The best is when someone complains that certain outlets have no credibility while promoting another outlet that more suits their own personal views.

I want to see this so-called utopian media source that has 100% credibility with zero designs on making a buck. Please, I’m waiting....

Why not understand that the nature of any report written by a human has to take a POV — it’s the baked in the whole concept of reporting and this general idea of “media.”

Hilarious

The 1987 movie “Broadcast News” holds up really well and tackles this subject.

 

[dieterbrock]

[Again, please don’t say the USA is doing well if you “discount NYC.” Italy’s deaths would be almost cut in half if you “discount” Lombardy. And Sweden’s deaths
would almost be cut in half it you “discount” Stockholm.]

First, I'm not "discounting NYC", Im stating rather factually that the majority of the United States has handled the epidemic quite well. In addition I also state rather factually how poorly the Senior Citizens were handled. Those 2 factors are a major component to the overwhelmingly awful epidemic we are facing. So yeah, I find it disgraceful that people choose to throw out the baby with the bath water and choose to discredit our great country.
Secondly, Lombardy? Seriously?
1/6th of the population of Italy lives in Lombardy, 10 million out of 60 million. 17%
NYC Metro? (Or NYC Proper as I have called it) 20 million people out of 330 million 6%
Sweden?
1/10 of the population of Sweden lives in Stockholm, 1 mill out of 10. 10% and the death count is closer to 40%
We have 4 States in the US with approximately 10 Mill people,
Ohio, 2,900 deaths compared to Sweden 5,400
Georgia, 2,900 deaths compared to Sweden 5,400
North Carolina, 1,400 deaths compared to Sweden 5,400
Each of which vastly performed better.
Only Michigan, with it 6,200 deaths is worse. (And they are also included in the gross mishandling of our assisted Seniors)

So I'm not sure what there is to disagree with, I'm merely stating facts. And I find it appalling how people are finding excuses to blame the US as a whole, while many States are doing great comparably.
If one is so hard pressed to make a comparison, why not look at Europe as a whole? Geographically speaking, its comparable to the USA (Excluding Russia) and in that region there have been a reported 184 million deaths, as opposed to the 124 mill here in the USA

Weekly COVID-19 country overview

This weekly report provides an overview of the epidemiological situation of the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine rollout by country.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

 

[dieterbrock]

I hope this information is of use.

Just out of curiosity, was she tested for Covid?

 

[Dieter the Brock]

The 1987 movie “Broadcast News” holds up really well and tackles this subject.

Yup
For sure.
You’ll also see this subject in Westerns like The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, even to the guy who is documenting Irish Bob in Unforgiven.
It’s the entire basis of Citizen Kane.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Seriously, take a breath and read. Its not that difficult, I even supplied you a link...

Which is the exact same link where my graphs came from.

Why is China exempt from these graphs you show?

It’s the graph from the link that dieterbrock posted.

Lastly,

And that's not what I said, thats "like" what you decided
What I ACTUALLY said in reference to not looking at the USA as one entity was:

The tragedy in the USA boils down to 2 major issues,
1. The inability to control the wildfire that was the New York City proper
2. The utter disgrace of how elders were returned to long term care facilities/nursing homes/assisted living centers
That wasnt Utah's fault, or Alaska, Idaho etc...

So at least have the courtesy to read what is written, and reply to the proper poster. Funny thing here is you've created an argument here with someone who entered a conversation with you by agreeing with your post

Let me try to shift gears so you understand my point here.

Why is it that you are only focused on the whole right now when we’re not even done with it? NYC was hit hard, but they are not the problem right now so why are you acting like they are? That is what you’re doing, you can try to claim that you’re not doing that, but it’s what you’re doing, intentional or not.

There is absolutely zero reason to be looking at the United Stated as a whole as if the virus is done and gone. It’s not. Right now it’s still going on. It’s going on in a lot of places that aren’t New York. It’s mostly happening in not New York.

We are still metaphorically on fire here, and while the rest of our neighbors put out their fires and stop it, we have a significant portion of people saying “Well, it didn’t reach the garage like it did for Tim over there, so we’re doing fine. Kitchen is gone, but my bedroom is alright so cool” meanwhile the rest of us are trying to point out that the living room and bathrooms are still burning.

What is the point of acting like NYC is the only problem? What is the point of acting like it’s okay that we’re still in the shit because some poorer countries got rocked earlier? I don’t see how in any way that is productive or even furthers the conversation. It’s not talking about recent events, it’s not discussing meaningful data?

Is this a thread about COVID-19, or is this a hidden politics thread where people are just backing into their corners and trying to act like it’s not all politics when it is?

Cause right now it seems that the goal is the later given the focus is trying to be directed at the political side, even though we’re not even at the analyzing stage yet? If that’s the case, then that explains why the thread is so additive to some, it’s just a quasi politics thread, and we’re all to blame for that, so this should be locked down.