Covid 19 thread

[Mojo Ram]

I was in Trader Joes here in Lexington and everyone was wearing masks and doing their business — the one guy without a mask

Did Trader Joe's mandate masks or just strongly urge?

 

[dieterbrock]

For one, the mask does offer self protection. That narrative is completely false.

When the airplane is off the gate it is under no state jurisdiction until it arrives back into another gate. Federal law takes over and there are no laws on the books to force wearing a mask on an airplane. A passenger has not violated any law removing their mask. If you think they need to be on a no fly list, write your congressman. That is a Federal issue.

If a passenger starts acting as how you have given an example, the mask is no longer the issue. And yes, that behavior becomes a safety issue and will be handled appropriately.

We are about 20% capacity from where we were before this virus. Many chose not to fly for now. Additional rules won't make a difference. And "rules" with "freedom" is highly contested right now. No one is forcing anyone to fly.

Yeah, well, what do you know? My friends brother has a girlfriend that read on Facebook that a guy knew someone who overheard these two people talking about this on a zoom call. THEY know all about it.

 

[XXXIVwin]

All right Captain.

You are at 41,000 feet and the Flight Attendant calls up and says a passenger has removed their mask on a full flight and refuses to put it back on.

What is your decision? What should the Flight Attendant do?

Your suggestion is to "ENFORCE" the rule? What are the methods? Beg? Cuff em? Divert?

I am really curious what someone who seems to know what is going on would do.

Sounds like airlines are trying to answer that very question right now. Sounds like the initial answer is: if (for example) a Delta passenger refused to wear his mask in flight, he would risk being banned from all future Delta flights:

Refuse to wear a face mask and these airlines may ban you from future flights

Major US carriers intend to more strictly enforce mask wearing. United Airlines and Delta Air Lines say they reserve the right to ban passengers from future flights if they refuse wear face coverings once on board.

www.cnn.com

And yeah, I imagine this "issue" is becoming more and more rare and that "most" people are doing the sensible thing.

I would agree with Mack that for some people this is not a "minor" issue. Some people who might be at "moderate risk" might feel they NEED to fly somewhere for a particular reason (to attend a funeral, for example. ) IMHO I just think it is reasonable to assure these vulnerable folks that they can count on universal mask-wearing during their flight.

We don't allow smoking on planes anymore, right? So what happens if somebody lights up a cigarette in mid-flight and refuses to put it out? It's a public health issue. And during during a pandemic, so is wearing a mask.

Doesn't need to be complicated. You insist on smoking mid-flight? You don't fly. You insist on leaving your mask off during the flight? You don't fly.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Did Trader Joe's mandate masks or just strongly urge?

No mandate, right now it’s just recommended

 

[SWAdude]

Sounds like airlines are trying to answer that very question right now. Sounds like the initial answer is: if (for example) a Delta passenger refused to wear his mask in flight, he would risk being banned from all future Delta flights:

Refuse to wear a face mask and these airlines may ban you from future flights

Major US carriers intend to more strictly enforce mask wearing. United Airlines and Delta Air Lines say they reserve the right to ban passengers from future flights if they refuse wear face coverings once on board.

www.cnn.com

And yeah, I imagine this "issue" is becoming more and more rare and that "most" people are doing the sensible thing.

I would agree with Mack that for some people this is not a "minor" issue. Some people who might be at "moderate risk" might feel they NEED to fly somewhere for a particular reason (to attend a funeral, for example. ) IMHO I just think it is reasonable to assure these vulnerable folks that they can count on universal mask-wearing during their flight.

We don't allow smoking on planes anymore, right? So what happens if somebody lights up a cigarette in mid-flight and refuses to put it out? It's a public health issue. And during during a pandemic, so is wearing a mask.

Doesn't need to be complicated. You insist on smoking mid-flight? You don't fly. You insist on leaving your mask off during the flight? You don't fly.

Man, where do I start.

Again Captain, flying is a privilege, not a right. YOUR CHOICE. NO one NEEDS to attend a funeral. It is a WANT!

Lighting up a cig in flight is a Federal offense. Three strikes and you are out! Not wearing a mask is not.

Keep trying dude. You are like trying to play a High School running back and offensive line to the LA RAMS defensive line.

And how the hell do you not fly at 41,000 feet!

Give it up!

Good lord.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Anyone heard from Les lately, not that I agree with any non Rams football take of his but I’m a little concerned he hasn’t weighed in here, I mean this current baloney sausage is literally right up his alley for pontificating, lol, I actually miss disagreeing...dammit tho, he is part of our “family” and a fairly big part

Hope all’s well amigo

 

[XXXIVwin]

Man, where do I start.

Again Captain, flying is a privilege, not a right. YOUR CHOICE. NO one NEEDS to attend a funeral. It is a WANT!

Lighting up a cig in flight is a Federal offense. Three strikes and you are out! Not wearing a mask is not.

Keep trying dude. You are like trying to play a High School running back and offensive line to the LA RAMS defensive line.

And how the hell do you not fly at 41,000 feet!

Give it up!

Good lord.

At its best, this thread has provided an interesting forum for ppl with differing opinions to communicate in a civil way. Despite your initial obnoxious retort, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and keep it civil. But you seem only interested in behaving like a belligerent schmuck. So, moving forward, I'll let other folks engage with you, but I have no further interest in responding to your posts.

Despite your pompous dismissiveness, it's pretty clear you didn't even bother to read the article I linked. Nor did you bother to address my central answer to your question. It was this: "if a Delta passenger refused to wear his mask in flight, he would risk being banned from all future Delta flights." You don't even acknowledge this statement, and instead just shout, "how the hell do you not fly at 41,000 feet!"

I thought it was pretty self-evident, but I guess I'll have to spell it out for you, since you didn't even bother to read the article :

Here's how United laid out the process for at least the next 60 days for people who eschew a mask:
First, flight attendants will inform you of the mandatory mask requirements if you're not wearing a face covering, and you do not fall within a small group of exceptions.
If you don't have a face covering, United flight attendants will offer you one.
If some fliers still refuse to wear a mask, the attendants "will do their best to de-escalate the situation [and] again inform the customer of United's policy."
United's policy does not include forcibly removing a passenger who still refuses to comply, but the attendants will file an incident report.
The airline says that "any final decision or actions regarding a customer's future flight benefits will not occur onboard but instead take place after the flight has reached its destination, and the security team has investigated the incident."

Does this answer your "but I kaynt stop flyin' in da middle of the sky!" question, or is it not clear enough yet for ya?

As far as cig smoking is concerned, (again) I didn't think I needed to spell out for you, but apparently I do. Of course I'm aware that the federal laws governing smoking on flights and mask wearing on flights are not the same. I brought it up as an example of "where there's a will, there's a way". Cigarette smoking on planes poses a health risk, and we as a society found a way to prevent it. By the same token, not wearing a mask on a plane poses a public health risk, and we as a society should be able to find a way to prevent it.

The question of course, is how? As you wryly noted, "Lighting up a cig in flight is a Federal offense. Three strikes and you are out! Not wearing a mask is not." One could definitely argue that an infected person refusing to wear a mask during a pandemic is a greater public health issue than second-hand smoke. So why has the federal government refused to step in on this matter? Again, from the article:

Sara Nelson, who is the President of the Association of Flight Attendants said in a statement: "Masks are essential to keep passengers, flight attendants, and frontline aviation workers safe during the Coronavirus pandemic. It is also essential to rebuild confidence in air travel. The federal government has completely abdicated its responsibility to keep the flying public and aviation workers safe during Covid-19."

So yeah, one could argue that the Federal Government could step in and impose a temporary mandate (with legal consequences) on the wearing of masks on flights. But they have chosen not to do so. So, ABSENT the intervention of the federal government, I'm hopeful that the enforcement policies proposed by Airlines for America could have a positive impact.

Lastly, as far as your repeated insistence that flying is a privilege and not a right, all I can say is, "No shit, Sherlock."

But Americans do all sorts of things where they can expect a reasonable assurance of safety. At some point, enough Americans got together and said, "Yeah, I understand that it is my CHOICE to fly on an airplane... and of course that involves lots of inherent risks... but don't I have the RIGHT to assume I won't be exposed to second-hand smoke during a flight?" Couldn't this same logic be applied to the wearing of masks during a pandemic? Again, I hope I don't need to spell it out for you....?

Like so many things surrounding the coronavirus, this is an interesting topic. If you were vaguely civil like most other posters here, I'd be interested in discussing it further. But you're not, so I won't.

So get in a few more of your asinine juvenile digs ("Haw Haw! You argue stoo-pid!") and then we're done.

 

[Pancake]

Anyone heard from Les lately, not that I agree with any non Rams football take of his but I’m a little concerned he hasn’t weighed in here, I mean this current baloney sausage is literally right up his alley for pontificating, lol, I actually miss disagreeing...dammit tho, he is part of our “family” and a fairly big part

Hope all’s well amigo

I think he was banned but not sure. I like Les a lot. Known him on various Ram forums for something like 15 years now. Hope he can come back.

 

[Memento]

I think he was banned but not sure. I like Les a lot. Known him on various Ram forums for something like 15 years now. Hope he can come back.

He was permabanned for attacking other members. I like Les, too, but attacking other members is never okay, and he had multiple warnings. The opinion? Sure. The messenger of the opinion? Never okay.

 

[bluecoconuts]

All right Captain.

You are at 41,000 feet and the Flight Attendant calls up and says a passenger has removed their mask on a full flight and refuses to put it back on.

What is your decision? What should the Flight Attendant do?

Your suggestion is to "ENFORCE" the rule? What are the methods? Beg? Cuff em? Divert?

I am really curious what someone who seems to know what is going on would do.

Can't the airlines just simply make a rule saying if you're caught without a mask, you will be banned from flying, and then they can get together and say "If you're banned from a flight on any airline for not wearing a mask, that ban will carry over to our airline.

Just because there's no law on the books requiring something, doesn't mean they can't make a rule with teeth. They do it all the time.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yes there are videos out these with some non-compliance. To generalize that as a "problem" is yes, ignorant. By far most all are in complete compliance. Crew and passengers alike.

As always, I appreciate your knowledge of the industry and ability to explain things the general public doesnt understand. (Or chooses not to)
My brother in law is a regional manager for a retail apparel operation and he has had to re-engage in his market since re-opening efforts have been in place. Over the last 4-5 weeks he has flown 10-12 times. Small sample I know however it completely concurs with what you are saying. For the most part, the airlines have been compliant, cordial and extremely professional. (only 1 flight from Atlanta was apparently packed like sardines in a tin can, all rows seated, many customers with no masks). And again, for the most part, the customers have been compliant as well. But.... there are assholes on flights in a pandemic, and when there isnt a pandemic.
At the end of the day, anyone who chooses to characterize the industry based on these clickbait articles, is ignorant.
As always, I remain in hope that you and your family stay safe thru all this and that some normalcy may come your way

 

[Mackeyser]

Absolutely not!

You say you have "complicating factors" so masks should be important to you. I hope you understand my point though. It was not to minimize your situation. In the grand scheme of air safety it is a minor issue to people who can be there. You should not be there nor expect others to be responsible for your own condition.

Prayers to your Uncle.

He passed last night. He lived in Dallas and we have a family plot for him in CA. So...not sure how we gonna do the logistics.

The masks aren’t for you, they’re for protecting others. Sorry if I come across as angry, but I’m finally getting Grandbabies and I’d like to enjoy this time.

I won’t fly if it comes to that, but my mom doesn’t trust the recycled air on planes so we may rent an RV anyway.

Anyway, that’s what gets me upset...people just don’t or won’t understand why masks are essential.

 

[Ramhusker]

He passed last night. He lived in Dallas and we have a family plot for him in CA. So...not sure how we gonna do the logistics.

The masks aren’t for you, they’re for protecting others. Sorry if I come across as angry, but I’m finally getting Grandbabies and I’d like to enjoy this time.

I won’t fly if it comes to that, but my mom doesn’t trust the recycled air on planes so we may rent an RV anyway.

Anyway, that’s what gets me upset...people just don’t or won’t understand why masks are essential.

Sorry brother. I had an Aunt pass during this and it was extra sad to watch her funeral on FB Live. It just didn't seem like justice for a lady who was so outgoing and fun to go out like that with a hand full of attendees.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Sorry brother. I had an Aunt pass during this and it was extra sad to watch her funeral on FB Live. It just didn't seem like justice for a lady who was so outgoing and fun to go out like that with a hand full of attendees.

Lost a co-worker last week, similar thought.

 

[SWAdude]

He passed last night. He lived in Dallas and we have a family plot for him in CA. So...not sure how we gonna do the logistics.

The masks aren’t for you, they’re for protecting others. Sorry if I come across as angry, but I’m finally getting Grandbabies and I’d like to enjoy this time.

I won’t fly if it comes to that, but my mom doesn’t trust the recycled air on planes so we may rent an RV anyway.

Anyway, that’s what gets me upset...people just don’t or won’t understand why masks are essential.

So sorry brother.

Thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

At its best, this thread has provided an interesting forum for ppl with differing opinions to communicate in a civil way. Despite your initial obnoxious retort, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and keep it civil. But you seem only interested in behaving like a belligerent schmuck. So, moving forward, I'll let other folks engage with you, but I have no further interest in responding to your posts.

Despite your pompous dismissiveness, it's pretty clear you didn't even bother to read the article I linked. Nor did you bother to address my central answer to your question. It was this: "if a Delta passenger refused to wear his mask in flight, he would risk being banned from all future Delta flights." You don't even acknowledge this statement, and instead just shout, "how the hell do you not fly at 41,000 feet!"

I thought it was pretty self-evident, but I guess I'll have to spell it out for you, since you didn't even bother to read the article :

Here's how United laid out the process for at least the next 60 days for people who eschew a mask:
First, flight attendants will inform you of the mandatory mask requirements if you're not wearing a face covering, and you do not fall within a small group of exceptions.
If you don't have a face covering, United flight attendants will offer you one.
If some fliers still refuse to wear a mask, the attendants "will do their best to de-escalate the situation [and] again inform the customer of United's policy."
United's policy does not include forcibly removing a passenger who still refuses to comply, but the attendants will file an incident report.
The airline says that "any final decision or actions regarding a customer's future flight benefits will not occur onboard but instead take place after the flight has reached its destination, and the security team has investigated the incident."

Does this answer your "but I kaynt stop flyin' in da middle of the sky!" question, or is it not clear enough yet for ya?

As far as cig smoking is concerned, (again) I didn't think I needed to spell out for you, but apparently I do. Of course I'm aware that the federal laws governing smoking on flights and mask wearing on flights are not the same. I brought it up as an example of "where there's a will, there's a way". Cigarette smoking on planes poses a health risk, and we as a society found a way to prevent it. By the same token, not wearing a mask on a plane poses a public health risk, and we as a society should be able to find a way to prevent it.

The question of course, is how? As you wryly noted, "Lighting up a cig in flight is a Federal offense. Three strikes and you are out! Not wearing a mask is not." One could definitely argue that an infected person refusing to wear a mask during a pandemic is a greater public health issue than second-hand smoke. So why has the federal government refused to step in on this matter? Again, from the article:

Sara Nelson, who is the President of the Association of Flight Attendants said in a statement: "Masks are essential to keep passengers, flight attendants, and frontline aviation workers safe during the Coronavirus pandemic. It is also essential to rebuild confidence in air travel. The federal government has completely abdicated its responsibility to keep the flying public and aviation workers safe during Covid-19."

So yeah, one could argue that the Federal Government could step in and impose a temporary mandate (with legal consequences) on the wearing of masks on flights. But they have chosen not to do so. So, ABSENT the intervention of the federal government, I'm hopeful that the enforcement policies proposed by Airlines for America could have a positive impact.

Lastly, as far as your repeated insistence that flying is a privilege and not a right, all I can say is, "No shit, Sherlock."

But Americans do all sorts of things where they can expect a reasonable assurance of safety. At some point, enough Americans got together and said, "Yeah, I understand that it is my CHOICE to fly on an airplane... and of course that involves lots of inherent risks... but don't I have the RIGHT to assume I won't be exposed to second-hand smoke during a flight?" Couldn't this same logic be applied to the wearing of masks during a pandemic? Again, I hope I don't need to spell it out for you....?

Like so many things surrounding the coronavirus, this is an interesting topic. If you were vaguely civil like most other posters here, I'd be interested in discussing it further. But you're not, so I won't.

So get in a few more of your asinine juvenile digs ("Haw Haw! You argue stoo-pid!") and then we're done.

If I may intervene for a brief moment

This whole over the top ridiculous spat pretty much spawned over a “Karen” reference

So two things here from my perspective

1) @flv original post of this ”post” the women who posted was doing just fine... until her very last sentence which kinda gave her a Karen ish look (needless insult to a general conceived group) that completely spoiled a would have been a good take

2) Likewise, the very last sentence in the above post sorta ruined a well written (but semi debatable) post

once upon a time we could disagree without the need to insult

just a simple thought my friends

carry on

 

[XXXIVwin]

If I may intervene for a brief moment

This whole over the top ridiculous spat pretty much spawned over a “Karen” reference

So two things here from my perspective

1) @flv original post of this ”post” the women who posted was doing just fine... until her very last sentence which kinda gave her a Karen ish look (needless insult to a general conceived group) that completely spoiled a would have been a good take

2) Likewise, the very last sentence in the above post sorta ruined a well written (but semi debatable) post

once upon a time we could disagree without the need to insult

just a simple thought my friends

carry on

For an Agent Provacateur you’re pretty diplomatic

Seriously though, thanks for writing this post.

In general I try very hard to be civil and diplomatic. But when someone continuously hurls personal insults at me, at some point enough is enough.

SWADude has said “I won’t lower myself to your level”, “you're ignorant”, “you don’t deserve the privilege of air travel”, “you argue like a high schooler competing against the pros”, and on and on and on. Another of his posts (which I saw before he deleted it) contained more of the same.

Not only that, he flagged one of my posts as “Inappropriate” purely as a revenge tactic. I said nothing inappropriate in that post whatsoever.

SWADude wrote, “I really suggest you do not fly until the vaccine is developed and if there never is one, drive. Some people do not deserve the privilege of air transportation.“

Seriously, WTF? All I did was point out some inconsistencies in the enforcement of mask-wearing on airlines. I even went out of my way to clarify that my argument was NOT about him personally or his aircraft, it was about the airline industry in general.

So yeah, I’m gonna take a break from this board for awhile. Really unpleasant to deal with a poster like that.

 

[Memento]

For an Agent Provacateur you’re pretty diplomatic

Seriously though, thanks for writing this post.

In general I try very hard to be civil and diplomatic. But when someone continuously hurls personal insults at me, at some point enough is enough.

SWADude has said “I won’t lower myself to your level”, “you're ignorant”, “you don’t deserve the privilege of air travel”, “you argue like a high schooler competing against the pros”, and on and on and on. Another of his posts (which I saw before he deleted it) contained more of the same.

Not only that, he flagged one of my posts as “Inappropriate” purely as a revenge tactic. I said nothing inappropriate in that post whatsoever.

So yeah, I’m gonna take a break from this board for awhile. Really unpleasant to deal with a poster like that.

You could put him on ignore (and he can do the same), and you won't see any of his comments, even if he's being quoted.