Covid 19 thread

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Dieter the Brock

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As a Mexican-American living in New Mexico where almost everyone is wearing masks, I found this post to be funny

As a Mexican-American who's lived in the barrios of Buena Park, who's lived in Austin, who's lived in SB, and who is now in Lexington Kentucky and holds Mexican citizenship, I am okay you find it funny. It wasn't meant to be offensive just truthful. My peeps have a certain bravado you can't deny. I am glad everyone is wearing a mask in NM (almost everyone)

What part of New Mexico? I love NM
I've been to Taos as part of a project 10x in the last 2 years. It's a trippy place. Some visits it's been magical, others frightening, other times totally bizarre. I am friends with the medicine man at the Taos pueblo. Some crazy stories.
 

XXXIVwin

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Actually the post was 100% accurate but thought I would not lower myself in response to your ignorant post. You seem to be an expert anyways.:rolleyes:

Yes, I am a professional who is well versed on the current rules, regulations and procedures regarding the requirement of wearing masks with air travel. Your take on the Flight Attendants confronting passengers is really just a display of ignorance for the position and the regulations (law) the FA's are required to follow. Ultimately, it is my responsibility. But maybe I am missing something within all the secure documents we are not allowed to share and is unavailable to the public. Will you please share with me the exact rules, regulations and procedures that are unavailable to you?

I really suggest you do not fly until the vaccine is developed and if there never is one, drive. Some people do not deserve the privilege of air transportation.

Cripes. Over-react much? You don't want to "lower" yourself to my "ignorant" post, and say I don't "deserve the privilege of air transportation"? (And put a totally unwarranted "inappropriate" flag on my post?) Okayyyy....

I imagine that you took issue with my use of the word "inaccurate" to describe your (since-deleted and snarky) post. It SEEMED like you were implying that flight attendants (FA's) didn't have to carry the burden of "enforcing" mask rules because "passengers were required to have masks before they could even board." That SEEMED to me to be inaccurate because I've seen many recent articles about how airlines are "inconsistent" in the enforcement of their own mask rules.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you personally are lazy on mask enforcement, nor am I claiming that Southwest Airlines is lax. Elsewhere you wrote, "I wear a mask when appropriate and for respect of others and their feelings." Great, and all the more power to you. Great also if that attitude is followed by the FA's and the passengers on your flights. However-- My point was based on inconsistent enforcement across the entire airline industry, not just SWADude's flights.

As for the "inconsistent enforcement of mask-wearing on flights", this is indisputable. You snarkily asked whether I have access to (Super-Duper Top Secret and Unavailable to the Public!) "exact rules and regulations and procedures" regarding masks on flights. But rules are pointless if they AREN'T BEING ENFORCED. Millions of people ride planes, and they can see with their own eyes whether or not their fellow passengers are wearing masks.

Here's just a smattering of articles from the past month:

From Fox News, on June 18, the headline: "FAA Won't Require Face Masks on Plane, Will Allow Airlines to Enforce their Own Rules"


From NYT on June 4: "Airlines Say Everyone On Board Must Wear a Mask. So Why Aren't They?"



From Wall Street Journal, on June 17:
How Strict Are Airlines About Face Masks in Flight?
With little direction from the feds and pressure to fill seats as safely as possible as coronavirus continues, U.S. carriers offer significantly different policies

Airlines are coming face to face with a problem that may crimp the nascent rebound in travel: who wears a mask and who doesn’t.
Some airlines are trying to strictly enforce face coverings during flights. Others have given it cursory attention. As with the question of blocking middle seats—some carriers are doing it and some aren’t—the inconsistency worries passengers concerned about virus exposure in tight confines.


And obviously there's a ton of photos online from concerned passengers showing full planes with very inconsistent mask wearing.

Prior to just recently, FA's were sometimes put in the position where they could only "recommend" or "encourage" the use of masks, but they didn't have the authority to "require" it. (That must have been tough for many FA's who were rightfully concerned for the safety of themselves and their fellow passengers). I'm delighted to hear that airlines are FINALLY deciding to crack down and make mask wearing MANDATORY:


Bottom line, I wish that mask-wearing was truly mandatory on flights, and now it finally looks like that's going to happen. I'm glad for the flight attendants who now have the full backing of the airline industry to enforce their own rules.
 
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SteezyEndo

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Convinced of what? What is more proof and what does it prove?
Convinced that covid really took down our economy and our lifestyle, and for what? People have always been filthy ever since I can remember. Its been around, it just didn’t happen out of the blue. With advanced media now information can be a snap away. Which could then lead to misinterpretation.
But overall just shocked by the hysteria. Over reacting. Its’ getting old.
 

Antonius

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As a Mexican-American who's lived in the barrios of Buena Park, who's lived in Austin, who's lived in SB, and who is now in Lexington Kentucky and holds Mexican citizenship, I am okay you find it funny. It wasn't meant to be offensive just truthful. My peeps have a certain bravado you can't deny. I am glad everyone is wearing a mask in NM (almost everyone)

What part of New Mexico? I love NM
I've been to Taos as part of a project 10x in the last 2 years. It's a trippy place. Some visits it's been magical, others frightening, other times totally bizarre. I am friends with the medicine man at the Taos pueblo. Some crazy stories.

I didn’t find your post offensive my man haha- just funny because although I know you’re right, it seems most Hispanics here In Albuquerque are taking mask wearing seriously.
 

Dieter the Brock

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I didn’t find your post offensive my man haha- just funny because although I know you’re right, it seems most Hispanics here In Albuquerque are taking mask wearing seriously.

I had to go to a place called Bardsville Ky to pick up some meat at a butcher this past Saturday, and it was full-on Hillbilly and I swear nobody was wearing a mask but me. I was freaking out. haha. glad to know Albuquerque is taking this shit seriously
 

12intheBox

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Convinced that covid really took down our economy and our lifestyle, and for what? People have always been filthy ever since I can remember. Its been around, it just didn’t happen out of the blue. With advanced media now information can be a snap away. Which could then lead to misinterpretation.
But overall just shocked by the hysteria. Over reacting. Its’ getting old.

For what? To live. To stop other people from dying. A lot of people who have already died didn’t need to. A lot more people who probably will die don’t need to. And is the price to mitigate really that high? Wear a mask? Stay home when you can?

I mean, I know everyone dies - but I’m not ready just yet. I’ll bet you aren’t either. Protecting each other is worth sacrifice.
 

SWAdude

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Cripes. Over-react much? You don't want to "lower" yourself to my "ignorant" post, and say I don't "deserve the privilege of air transportation"? (And put a totally unwarranted "inappropriate" flag on my post?) Okayyyy....

I imagine that you took issue with my use of the word "inaccurate" to describe your (since-deleted and snarky) post. It SEEMED like you were implying that flight attendants (FA's) didn't have to carry the burden of "enforcing" mask rules because "passengers were required to have masks before they could even board." That SEEMED to me to be inaccurate because I've seen many recent articles about how airlines are "inconsistent" in the enforcement of their own mask rules.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you personally are lazy on mask enforcement, nor am I claiming that Southwest Airlines is lax. Elsewhere you wrote, "I wear a mask when appropriate and for respect of others and their feelings." Great, and all the more power to you. Great also if that attitude is followed by the FA's and the passengers on your flights. However-- My point was based on inconsistent enforcement across the entire airline industry, not just SWADude's flights.

As for the "inconsistent enforcement of mask-wearing on flights", this is indisputable. You snarkily asked whether I have access to (Super-Duper Top Secret and Unavailable to the Public!) "exact rules and regulations and procedures" regarding masks on flights. But rules are pointless if they AREN'T BEING ENFORCED. Millions of people ride planes, and they can see with their own eyes whether or not their fellow passengers are wearing masks.

Here's just a smattering of articles from the past month:

From Fox News, on June 18, the headline: "FAA Won't Require Face Masks on Plane, Will Allow Airlines to Enforce their Own Rules"


From NYT on June 4: "Airlines Say Everyone On Board Must Wear a Mask. So Why Aren't They?"



From Wall Street Journal, on June 17:
How Strict Are Airlines About Face Masks in Flight?
With little direction from the feds and pressure to fill seats as safely as possible as coronavirus continues, U.S. carriers offer significantly different policies

Airlines are coming face to face with a problem that may crimp the nascent rebound in travel: who wears a mask and who doesn’t.
Some airlines are trying to strictly enforce face coverings during flights. Others have given it cursory attention. As with the question of blocking middle seats—some carriers are doing it and some aren’t—the inconsistency worries passengers concerned about virus exposure in tight confines.


And obviously there's a ton of photos online from concerned passengers showing full planes with very inconsistent mask wearing.

Prior to just recently, FA's were sometimes put in the position where they could only "recommend" or "encourage" the use of masks, but they didn't have the authority to "require" it. (That must have been tough for many FA's who were rightfully concerned for the safety of themselves and their fellow passengers). I'm delighted to hear that airlines are FINALLY deciding to crack down and make mask wearing MANDATORY:


Bottom line, I wish that mask-wearing was truly mandatory on flights, and now it finally looks like that's going to happen. I'm glad for the flight attendants who now have the full backing of the airline industry to enforce their own rules.

All right Captain.

You are at 41,000 feet and the Flight Attendant calls up and says a passenger has removed their mask on a full flight and refuses to put it back on.

What is your decision? What should the Flight Attendant do?

Your suggestion is to "ENFORCE" the rule? What are the methods? Beg? Cuff em? Divert?

I am really curious what someone who seems to know what is going on would do.
 

SteezyEndo

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All right Captain.

What is your decision? What should the Flight Attendant do?

Your suggestion is to "ENFORCE" the rule? What are the methods? Beg? Cuff em? Divert?

I am really curious what someone who seems to know what is going on would do.
I believe it should be up to the business to utimately make that decision, and it should be the passengers choice. Have them sign a waiver.
 

12intheBox

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I believe it should be up to the business to utimately make that decision, and it should be the passengers choice. Have them sign a waiver.

The mask isn’t to protect that passenger - its to protect everyone else on the flight.

And the answer is - that persons gets arrested/ cited when they land and placed on the no fly list.

What is a flight attendant supposed to do if a passenger starts spitting on everyone and refuses to stop? If they take their pants off and refuse to put them back on? If they start pissing in the aisle?

We can have rules - we can enforce those rules. Masks are a sensible rule right now. Freedom has limits.
 

SWAdude

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I believe it should be up to the business to utimately make that decision, and it should be the passengers choice. Have them sign a waiver.

I would think if the airlines did not require the use of masks a waiver may have been necessary in our litigious society.

Since masks are required it appears the big money attorneys have said that liability is not an issue.

Enforcement after the airplane leaves the gate I think most would understand is not an easy situation.

My wife is a Flight Attendant so in our household we have two sets of independant experience and perspectives in our work. Passenger issues are unfortunately routine. The mask issue has just created another opportunity we are required to manage.

Safety is always number one. ENFORCING a passenger to do something minor (which it is in this case and if you do not think so then do not fly) opens the opportunity for a universally unwanted issue.

I can speak for our entire industry with what I am explaining.

Yes there are videos out these with some non-compliance. To generalize that as a "problem" is yes, ignorant. By far most all are in complete compliance. Crew and passengers alike.
 

SWAdude

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The mask isn’t to protect that passenger - its to protect everyone else on the flight.

And the answer is - that persons gets arrested/ cited when they land and placed on the no fly list.

What is a flight attendant supposed to do if a passenger starts spitting on everyone and refuses to stop? If they take their pants off and refuse to put them back on? If they start pissing in the aisle?

We can have rules - we can enforce those rules. Masks are a sensible rule right now. Freedom has limits.

For one, the mask does offer self protection. That narrative is completely false.

When the airplane is off the gate it is under no state jurisdiction until it arrives back into another gate. Federal law takes over and there are no laws on the books to force wearing a mask on an airplane. A passenger has not violated any law removing their mask. If you think they need to be on a no fly list, write your congressman. That is a Federal issue.

If a passenger starts acting as how you have given an example, the mask is no longer the issue. And yes, that behavior becomes a safety issue and will be handled appropriately.

We are about 20% capacity from where we were before this virus. Many chose not to fly for now. Additional rules won't make a difference. And "rules" with "freedom" is highly contested right now. No one is forcing anyone to fly.
 

Mackeyser

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I would think if the airlines did not require the use of masks a waiver may have been necessary in our litigious society.

Since masks are required it appears the big money attorneys have said that liability is not an issue.

Enforcement after the airplane leaves the gate I think most would understand is not an easy situation.

My wife is a Flight Attendant so in our household we have two sets of independant experience and perspectives in our work. Passenger issues are unfortunately routine. The mask issue has just created another opportunity we are required to manage.

Safety is always number one. ENFORCING a passenger to do something minor (which it is in this case and if you do not think so then do not fly) opens the opportunity for a universally unwanted issue.

I can speak for our entire industry with what I am explaining.

Yes there are videos out these with some non-compliance. To generalize that as a "problem" is yes, ignorant. By far most all are in complete compliance. Crew and passengers alike.

Yeah, my uncle is in his final days of cancer that he has fought off for six years. I mentioned to my mom that maybe we should rent an RV as opposed to flying which she is wont to do. No flights or hotels.

My mom turned 70 this year and I’ll be 52 later this year and have several complicating factors.

So yeah, I won’t fly expressly because not wearing a mask or someone taking it off is seen as “minor”.

If that makes me unworthy, oh well.
 

Dieter the Brock

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All right Captain.

You are at 41,000 feet and the Flight Attendant calls up and says a passenger has removed their mask on a full flight and refuses to put it back on.

What is your decision? What should the Flight Attendant do?

Your suggestion is to "ENFORCE" the rule? What are the methods? Beg? Cuff em? Divert?

I am really curious what someone who seems to know what is going on would do.

Did someone say Captain?

D00E8214-D067-4562-96AC-73A6DCDBA05F.jpeg
 

Ramhusker

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Here’s a little info I’m hearing concerning COVID and blood types. If you have Type O blood, you are 35% less likely to even contract Covid. But, if you are Type A, you are 45% more at risk of having severe symptoms from Covid. I’m glad I’m O+. You Type A people must surely take this much more seriously.
 

Mojo Ram

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No one is forcing anyone to fly.
(y)
Yeah i'm still stuck on this aspect. If you're mad at the 20 somethings for going to the nightclub or tubing down the river unmasked and congregating...don't go to the nightclub or the river. Stay home and use your phone(apps) or friends or family to live from home. If you decide to leave your house and find unmasked citizens in your path...you decided to take a risk, as did everyone else who left home.

If you're a high risk* profile for Covid you should not leave your house. Period. The vast majority of citizens in this country are NOT high risk*. If you're not high risk and just very concerned that's okay too, but you should also stay home instead of playing mask cop to the general public.

*death

Covid is not going away. Its not a fart on the wind, and yes i do wear my mask wherever its mandated or when i can't social distance.
 

SWAdude

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Yeah, my uncle is in his final days of cancer that he has fought off for six years. I mentioned to my mom that maybe we should rent an RV as opposed to flying which she is wont to do. No flights or hotels.

My mom turned 70 this year and I’ll be 52 later this year and have several complicating factors.

So yeah, I won’t fly expressly because not wearing a mask or someone taking it off is seen as “minor”.

If that makes me unworthy, oh well.

Absolutely not!

You say you have "complicating factors" so masks should be important to you. I hope you understand my point though. It was not to minimize your situation. In the grand scheme of air safety it is a minor issue to people who can be there. You should not be there nor expect others to be responsible for your own condition.

Prayers to your Uncle.
 
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Dieter the Brock

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Yeah i'm still stuck on this aspect. If you're mad at the 20 somethings for going to the nightclub or tubing down the river unmasked and congregating...don't go to the nightclub or the river. Stay home and use your phone(apps) or friends or family to live from home. If you decide to leave your house and find unmasked citizens in your path...you decided to take a risk, as did everyone else who left home.

If you're a high risk* profile for Covid you should not leave your house. Period. The vast majority of citizens in this country are NOT high risk*. If you're not high risk and just very concerned that's okay too, but you should also stay home instead of playing mask cop to the general public.

*death

Covid is not going away. Its not a fart on the wind, and yes i do wear my mask wherever its mandated or when i can't social distance.

This is true
But still, I was in Trader Joes here in Lexington and everyone was wearing masks and doing their business — the one guy without a mask was yaking on his cell phone being a total douche. I found it funny that the only guy without a mask found it necessary to let the juices fly.
Nobody played “mask police” but everyone recognized the sheer doucheness.
If we can recognize the risk of going outside I think there’s also room for recognizing when someone is being an asshole. Trust me on this, this pandemic has brought out the assholes, whether at the river or at your local bar or at Trader Joe’s.
 

OC--LeftCoast

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You should not be there nor expect others to be responsible for your own condition.

Prayers to your Uncle. (Yes indeed, ditto my friend )

While to many that may come off as selfish or even callous, I have to concede that I agree on this take.

It would seem as the death rate to test positive test rate needle has been moving the right way, subsiding?

I guess I’m hopeful the severity of this “virus“ is thinning out some
 
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Mojo Ram

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This is true
But still, I was in Trader Joes here in Lexington and everyone was wearing masks and doing their business — the one guy without a mask was yaking on his cell phone being a total douche. I found it funny that the only guy without a mask found it necessary to let the juices fly.
Nobody played “mask police” but everyone recognized the sheer doucheness.
If we can recognize the risk of going outside I think there’s also room for recognizing when someone is being an asshole. Trust me on this, this pandemic has brought out the assholes, whether at the river or at your local bar or at Trader Joe’s.
Dude i can't stand public speakerphone douchebags or even loud public phone talkers even in a pandemic-less world. It's incredibly irritating to me, Lol.

To your point, being courteous and self aware when among others is of course important...and a skill, i just don't file that under wearing a mask or not in public under these conditions.
If a person is being a jackass in public he needs to be called out...mask or no mask.
 
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