Covid 19 thread

[RamBall]

For those who think it’s man made - released accidentally or released intentionally?

I dont think it was released intentionally, but I could be wrong. But what I do know is that if they were studying this virus in bats for 5 yrs and all that came from that study was the virus was suddenly able to infect humans and they never found a treatment or vaccine in that 5 yrs, they were studying it to use it as a weapon.

 

[kurtfaulk]

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somehow there has been a spike in cases in victoria here in australia. keeps going up every day, up to 40 a day now. once it starts it's hard to contain it unless you lock down again.



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[Ramhusker]

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somehow there has been a spike in cases in victoria here in australia. keeps going up every day, up to 40 a day now. once it starts it's hard to contain it unless you lock down again.



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Well, true but it isn’t going away and we can’t wear masks or stay isolated forever. Herd immunity is what is going to happen. Flattening the curve was always the goal. Stopping COVID-19 in its tracks was never feasible. The trick is to find the right balance of operating in the meantime. We are getting close to that globally. Yes, cases will go up, death percentages will go down as we learn better treatments and preventative measures to take. That’s already happening. The world can’t stay in the fetal position and survive. Much of it really does come down to personal responsibility. I know that is not a popular view in much of the world’s population these days but the truth is often unpopular to the masses.

 

[12intheBox]

Well, true but it isn’t going away and we can’t wear masks or stay isolated forever.

Apparently, we can’t even for a few months.

Is it not eye opening to anyone else how different our numbers are compared to Europe?

maybe the big difference is our refusal to follow the simple guidelines - wear a mask and stay distanced when you can?

 

[Ramhusker]

Apparently, we can’t even for a few months.

Is it not eye opening to anyone else how different our numbers are compared to Europe?

maybe the big difference is our refusal to follow the simple guidelines - wear a mask and stay distanced when you can?

I agree people are impatient and soft. Most people today can’t make the simplest of sacrifices. But we can never compare the numbers because the circumstances are always different. And we are in an election year. You can’t trust any of the stats you see because although figures don’t lie, liars figure.

 

[den-the-coach]

I agree people are impatient and soft. Most people today can’t make the simplest of sacrifices. But we can never compare the numbers because the circumstances are always different. And we are in an election year. You can’t trust any of the stats you see because although figures don’t lie, liars figure.

I was trying to wonder how I would react to this being 24 and not 54. At 24, being in the Air Force feeling infallible, both mentally & physically, I just don't know if I would have the discipline to practice the social distancing & donning a mask everywhere I go. Plus you're looking for Love in all the wrong places, so I realize I am very cautious and follow the proper protocol, plus I ensure my children & grandchild do the same, but at 24, I'm just not sure I would do that. So I take that under consideration.

I miss large gatherings and miss seeing many of my colleagues, including realizing that we won't be heading to Texas this year or to Columbus & Dayton for college football and that's tough, but doable....My heart goes out to the younger generation as they had to endure this and IMO, for the most part, have handled it well.

 

[CeeZar]

Is it not eye opening to anyone else how different our numbers are compared to Europe?

Compared to most of Europe, the US is not doing that bad. If you remove the clusterfuck that is the NY City Metro area, we are going quite well in comparison.

 

[12intheBox]

I keep seeing the - if you remove New York - thing.

You can't remove New York, its our biggest metropolitan area and a huge travel hub.

If we did remove NY, are we also removing the single biggest metro area of each of the other countries we are comparing to?

Plus, what is the trajectory for Europe compared to the US? It seems to me that Europe has - indeed - flattened their curve and we flattened ours only to watch it tick right back up again.

Maybe the numbers are all wrong - I get that skepticism has its value.

But looking at this - and especially when you combine it with the rates spiking in the states that re-opened in a more, lets say aggressive manner, it really does make you think there may be something to this whole idea that our actions can make a difference.

 

[CeeZar]

The point about NY is that the country has done quite well. But the overall statistics are being dragged down by ONE area that did a phenomenally shitty job. So broadly categorizing the response in the entire country as bad in comparison to other countries is simply incorrect.

So you've got state and local governments and populations all across the US that have, for the most part, acted responsibly and then you have New York and New Jersey and the surrounding metro areas with death rates per capita 3x the worst European country of any size.

Get on the Googles and find the date when NYC started requiring masks on mass transit. When did their governor stop sending infected patients back to nursing homes?

 

[dieterbrock]

The point about NY is that the country has done quite well. But the overall statistics are being dragged down by ONE area that did a phenomenally shitty job. So broadly categorizing the response in the entire country as bad in comparison to other countries is simply incorrect.

So you've got state and local governments and populations all across the US that have, for the most part, acted responsibly and then you have New York and New Jersey and the surrounding metro areas with death rates per capita 3x the worst European country of any size.

Get on the Googles and find the date when NYC started requiring masks on mass transit. When did their governor stop sending infected patients back to nursing homes?

Well said. Putting the blame on the USA as a whole is joke, the NYC area is the problem
The only disagreement here is when talking NJ, the lower half of the state has faired remarkably well, it is in the upper half, east side which has been a disaster. To me, its all part of the NY city shitshow.
And yes, I live in NJ.

 

[XXXIVwin]

The point about NY is that the country has done quite well. But the overall statistics are being dragged down by ONE area that did a phenomenally shitty job. So broadly categorizing the response in the entire country as bad in comparison to other countries is simply incorrect.

So you've got state and local governments and populations all across the US that have, for the most part, acted responsibly and then you have New York and New Jersey and the surrounding metro areas with death rates per capita 3x the worst European country of any size.

Get on the Googles and find the date when NYC started requiring masks on mass transit. When did their governor stop sending infected patients back to nursing homes?

Oh come on. The rest of the country is doing “quite well”? Really? All the Sun Belt states that are seeing exponential spikes are doing “quite well”?

And you say NY did a “phenomenally shitty job” for being slow to require masks on mass transit? Um... what does that say about how the rest of the country has handled the issue of masks?

REMOVING social distancing stickers at an indoor rally? Packing indoor arenas where 90% of the attendees wear masks? Is this part of your notion that the USA has “acted responsibly”?

The whole freaking world has recognized that two things should be indisputable: 1. Social distancing. 2. Wear masks.

The ONLY country in the whole world that has politicized these 2 common sense guidelines is the good ol’ USA. And we’ve got the awful numbers to prove it.

 

[den-the-coach]

The ONLY country in the whole world that has politicized these 2 common sense guidelines is the good ol’ USA. And we’ve got the awful numbers to prove it.

This is very true and hard to explain,but in the end I don't understand how you can't take the necessary precautions. I understand, people want to party and not being held hostage, but when it comes to your safety and well being I don't understand the trepidation and maybe that's because COVID hit New York the hardest, so coming back slow & steady makes more sense and IMO, the beaches are the worst....But again, JMHO.

 

[CeeZar]

Oh come on. The rest of the country is doing “quite well”? Really? All the Sun Belt states that are seeing exponential spikes are doing “quite well”?

And you say NY did a “phenomenally shitty job” for being slow to require masks on mass transit? Um... what does that say about how the rest of the country has handled the issue of masks?

REMOVING social distancing stickers at an indoor rally? Packing indoor arenas where 90% of the attendees wear masks? Is this part of your notion that the USA has “acted responsibly”?

The whole freaking world has recognized that two things should be indisputable: 1. Social distancing. 2. Wear masks.

The ONLY country in the whole world that has politicized these 2 common sense guidelines is the good ol’ USA. And we’ve got the awful numbers to prove it.

Pretty much everything in this post is wrong. Frankly, I don't give a shit if you believe it or not and have no desire to try to change your mind.

Stay safe and quit believing everything the MSM spoonfeeds you.

 

[XXXIVwin]

This is very true and hard to explain,but in the end I don't understand how you can't take the necessary precautions. I understand, people want to party and not being held hostage, but when it comes to your safety and well being I don't understand the trepidation and maybe that's because COVID hit New York the hardest, so coming back slow & steady makes more sense and IMO, the beaches are the worst....But again, JMHO.

Thank you for writing this post, den. It's natural for people to disagree on all sorts of things, but it is such a shame that there is this false "debate" about common-sense precautions.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Pretty much everything in this post is wrong. Frankly, I don't give a shit if you believe it or not and have no desire to try to change your mind.

Stay safe and quit believing everything the MSM spoonfeeds you.

"Pretty much everything in this post is wrong" ? What exactly is there that is "wrong"?

Rising rates of infection in Sun Belt States? Have you seen the rising numbers in Texas, Arizona, and Florida? Do you think those numbers are "fake" or something?

The removal of social distancing stickers at the Tulsa rally? There's video evidence to prove this. The management at the BOK arena in Tulsa placed stickers that said "Do Not Sit Here, Please!" on every-other seat, but just a few hours before the rally these stickers were ordered to be removed.

90% of people not wearing masks at an indoor rally? Again, video evidence of this, we can all see it with our own eyes.

The USA being the only country to politicize mask-wearing? Okay, I'll concede that is a slight overstatement, there are a couple of other countries dumb enough to politicize this. For example, the President of Brazil, Mr. Bosanaro, has sent mixed messages regarding masks, (and in fact a Brazilian court recently ruled that he could be subject to a fine if he didn't wear one!) But really, given the awful numbers in Brazil, is that really a country we want to compare ourselves to?!?

As for not "believing everything the MSM media spoon-feeds you", I am proud to say that I get my news info from many varied sources. I routinely watch TV shows that express opinions which are the direct opposite of mine.

Lastly, as for NY, I will definitely concede that some egregious early errors were made, especially by the Governor (with the nursing homes) and by the Mayor (with the delayed shutdown). However... when looking at the graphs, we see that both NY and NJ were absolutely hammered in April, started to taper off in May, and have been squashed to manageable levels in June:

I mean, we can blame NY and NJ for making mistakes early on, but can we all agree that by the month of June they got a handle on it? Moving forward, as we see the exponential spikes and outbreaks in many states (especially the Sun Belt), it is indisputable that these numbers are NOT being fueled anymore by NY and NJ. Moving forward, let's put the responsibility where it belongs.

For example, here’s the graphs of Florida and Texas. Arizona looks much the same, and many other states are seeing steep inclines too. Don’t you think these graphs are a bit concerning?

Believe it or not, some people have brought up things in this thread which have influenced my thinking, and. dare I say it, even changed my mind. My hope in writing my posts is to at least provoke some critical thinking in people who might have opinions which differ from mine.

 

[CeeZar]

"Pretty much everything in this post is wrong" ? What exactly is there that is "wrong"?

Rising rates of infection in Sun Belt States? Have you seen the rising numbers in Texas, Arizona, and Florida? Do you think those numbers are "fake" or something?

The removal of social distancing stickers at the Tulsa rally? There's video evidence to prove this. The management at the BOK arena in Tulsa placed stickers that said "Do Not Sit Here, Please!" on every-other seat, but just a few hours before the rally these stickers were ordered to be removed.

90% of people not wearing masks at an indoor rally? Again, video evidence of this, we can all see it with our own eyes.

The USA being the only country to politicize mask-wearing? Okay, I'll concede that is a slight overstatement, there are a couple of other countries dumb enough to politicize this. For example, the President of Brazil, Mr. Bosanaro, has sent mixed messages regarding masks, (and in fact a Brazilian court recently ruled that he could be subject to a fine if he didn't wear one!) But really, given the awful numbers in Brazil, is that really a country we want to compare ourselves to?!?

As for not "believing everything the MSM media spoon-feeds you", I am proud to say that I get my news info from many varied sources. I routinely watch TV shows that express opinions which are the direct opposite of mine.

Lastly, as for NY, I will definitely concede that some egregious early errors were made, especially by the Governor (with the nursing homes) and by the Mayor (with the delayed shutdown). However... when looking at the graphs, we see that both NY and NJ were absolutely hammered in April, started to taper off in May, and have been squashed to manageable levels in June. Moving forward, as we see the exponential spikes and outbreaks in many states (especially the Sun Belt), it is indisputable that these new cases are NOT being fueled anymore by NY and NJ. Regarding the awful spike in cases in June, and moving forward in July, let's put the responsibility where it belongs.

Believe it or not, some people have brought up things in this thread which have influenced my thinking, and. dare I say it, even changed my mind. My hope in writing my posts is to at least provoke some critical thinking in people who might have opinions which differ from mine.

This is political to some degree or another in most countries. Look at the UK and Sweden for example. The reason it seems worse here is because OrangeManBad and the our shitbag media thrives on fear porn.

Yeah, cases are increasing in some states. Partially due to the ease on the lockdown and partially due to weeks of massive protests in many many cities that none of our health officials saw fit to condemn due to their fear of being cancelled. But you should look up the definition of exponential. It's not true anywhere in the US. "Spike" and "surge" are even dubious descriptions but they sell the fear.

EVERYONE knew there would be an increase in cases when the lockdown restrictions were eased. EVERYONE. We could have waited 3 more months and there still would have been an increase.

Be smart, social distance, wear a mask when appropriate. And for god sake, reject the fear porn.

 

[XXXIVwin]

This is political to some degree or another in most countries. Look at the UK and Sweden for example. The reason it seems worse here is because OrangeManBad and the our shitbag media thrives on fear porn.

Yeah, cases are increasing in some states. Partially due to the ease on the lockdown and partially due to weeks of massive protests in many many cities that none of our health officials saw fit to condemn due to their fear of being cancelled. But you should look up the definition of exponential. It's not true anywhere in the US. "Spike" and "surge" are even dubious descriptions but they sell the fear.

EVERYONE knew there would be an increase in cases when the lockdown restrictions were eased. EVERYONE. We could have waited 3 more months and there still would have been an increase.

Be smart, social distance, wear a mask when appropriate. And for god sake, reject the fear porn.

Fine, fair enough. Happily concede your point about the word “exponential”.

But yeah, the rise in cases in many states is definitely concerning. I hope I’m wrong, but the trend lines in Texas-Arizona-Florida look especially bad for the coming months.

That phrase “fear porn” bugs me TBH, especially when hundreds of thousands of people are dying. When ppl refer to masks as PART OF this supposed “fear porn”, yeah, that’s concerning.

As for your sentence, “Be smart, social distance, wear a mask when appropriate”, I sure can’t disagree with that. It just drives me nuts that it seems so hard to get everyone on board with this.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Not sure things can all be marked up to "fear porn"
It's a nice concept but just not accurate.
Nobody but you Ceezar is so infatuated with this concept of "Fear Porn."

You are simply not calculating those of us who are in the MIDDLE - who are well balanced - those of us who are collecting information from many sources and using our intelligence to make educated opinions and judgments on this matter.

When you blame it all on this notion of "Fear Porn" you repeatedly espouse, you are making yourself look foolish and at the same time dragging the entire conversation into a "political" discussion which is forbidden here.

I mean this idea that if someone is scared or fearful of this pandemic that they are somehow under the influence of a massive global conspiracy is stretching it a bit. Only one porning out is you Ceezar with your fucking virus avatar

Again, here we see an example of the ALL CAPS frustration posts, like Ceezar with his double "EVERYONES"
I mean if it's not "OTHERS" in All Caps it's "EVERYONES"

Your blanket generalities are just so awesome. I mean both ways you're getting blasted with generalizations like "EVERYTHING" is wrong with your post! Then proceed to declare that everyone who is scared is jerking on Fear porn. Nice work

To see all the harshness toward NYC is so awesome. Keep it up. I am entertained by all the absolutes and generalizations. It's good entertainment.

Continue to steer this thread of a cliff

 

[1maGoh]

I keep seeing the - if you remove New York - thing.

You can't remove New York, its our biggest metropolitan area and a huge travel hub.

If we did remove NY, are we also removing the single biggest metro area of each of the other countries we are comparing to?

Plus, what is the trajectory for Europe compared to the US? It seems to me that Europe has - indeed - flattened their curve and we flattened ours only to watch it tick right back up again.

Maybe the numbers are all wrong - I get that skepticism has its value.

But looking at this - and especially when you combine it with the rates spiking in the states that re-opened in a more, lets say aggressive manner, it really does make you think there may be something to this whole idea that our actions can make a difference.

Removing outliers is a valid technique. That's why they're called outliers. It's to differentiate them from the bulk of the data. You still have to do the numbers with them, and still address them in some meaningful way. But you can still say (and I'm not endorsing this because I don't know that it's true; I really don't feel like spending the 1 hour of free time I get today trying to make sense of the numbers) 49 states did anywhere from "meh" to "okay" and 1 state did absolutely awful, therefore the response was generally ok.

 

[CeeZar]

Not sure things can all be marked up to "fear porn"
It's a nice concept but just not accurate.
Nobody but you Ceezar is so infatuated with this concept of "Fear Porn."

You are simply not calculating those of us who are in the MIDDLE - who are well balanced - those of us who are collecting information from many sources and using our intelligence to make educated opinions and judgments on this matter.

When you blame it all on this notion of "Fear Porn" you repeatedly espouse, you are making yourself look foolish and at the same time dragging the entire conversation into a "political" discussion which is forbidden here.

I mean this idea that if someone is scared or fearful of this pandemic that they are somehow under the influence of a massive global conspiracy is stretching it a bit. Only one porning out is you Ceezar with your fucking virus avatar

Again, here we see an example of the ALL CAPS frustration posts, like Ceezar with his double "EVERYONES"
I mean if it's not "OTHERS" in All Caps it's "EVERYONES"

Your blanket generalities are just so awesome. I mean both ways you're getting blasted with generalizations like "EVERYTHING" is wrong with your post! Then proceed to declare that everyone who is scared is jerking on Fear porn. Nice work

To see all the harshness toward NYC is so awesome. Keep it up. I am entertained by all the absolutes and generalizations. It's good entertainment.

Continue to steer this thread of a cliff

Pretty much everything in this post is wrong.