Covid 19 thread

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Dieter the Brock

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Wasn't this how Planet Of The Apes started

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Did you ever notice now horrible the ending is? Like when Heston sees the Statue of Liberty and starts to moan and cry? But why? He escapes the apes, has a hot ass woman who barely can speak - thus no complaining - and the world is entirely his.
Anyway, if I could redo the ending Heston would see the statue of liberty and celebrate
 

CeeZar

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Very comprehensive information on case fatality numbers.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/

It is important to note that this is "case fatality rate" not virus fatality rate. Meaning that the reported fatality rate is only meaningful in relation to confirmed cases. We know that total cases (unconfirmed + confirmed) is much higher than confirmed - perhaps by an order of magnitude or more. So the actual fatality rate of someone that gets the virus is certainly much, much lower than the case fatality rate.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/confirmed-coronavirus-cases-almost-meaningless-123550415.html

“The numbers are almost meaningless,” says Steve Goodman, a professor of epidemiology at Stanford University. There’s a huge reservoir of people who have mild cases, and would not likely seek testing, he says. The rate of increase in positive results reflect a mixed-up combination of increased testing rates and spread of the virus.

Stanford’s Goodman said that he’s confident scientists will eventually collect the data we need to understand this pandemic and how it’s playing out in the United States. “Right now we are floundering in a sea of ignorance about who is infected and the fate of people who are infected,” he says.
 

Merlin

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One thing that is fucking pissing me off is these idiots who have no/minor symptoms (wife has been pointing them out on facebook) posting how they got tested but don't have the virus. I'm like how fucking stupid are you asshats??? You're just wasting test kits. Fuck.

The further this thing goes the more I am starting to feel like the human race needs a supervirus to wipe out a big portion of people. And hopefully it'll be the fucktards getting tested for no reason.
 

Merlin

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Did you ever notice now horrible the ending is? Like when Heston sees the Statue of Liberty and starts to moan and cry? But why? He escapes the apes, has a hot ass woman who barely can speak - thus no complaining - and the world is entirely his.
Anyway, if I could redo the ending Heston would see the statue of liberty and celebrate
I'm with you man. He should have been by himself in that scene lol because nobody would be that depressed when he knows he's gonna be balls deep in Linda Harrison. Those eyes man she was a stunner.
 

bluecoconuts

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:LOL:
Lots of work can be done remote, sure. We're going 50/50 at my job. Technically, none of us need to be on the same place ever. But we're already seeing a productivity hit because it's harder to interact through technology that in person. Our development team is taking the biggest hit. Our shipping department can't work remote. If we weren't essential, some of our people would be SOL. That's not hanging on to old outdated methods, that's the reality of our business.

Now imagine you work for Build a Bear, a carpet cleaning company, a martial arts school, a pet store, etc. The government says non-essential personnel most stay home and now your business is toast. Restaurants simply aren't going to do as much business as they would if their dine in service was open. Lots of those will go out of business. That's going to adversely affect property managers and owners. Loans are going to default, which will hurt banks badly.

And that doesn't account for the fact that there's simply going to be less spending going on. Customers that don't have to go out won't. And online orders will mostly go to Amazon or other large well known retailers.

All that to say, "just work remote because you can" is a very privileged and dismissive perspective for the situations that millions of Americans are in.

Tons of businesses are going to close, especially if this goes on for another month (which is what my boss suspects; I am, as I usually do, not advocating for or against such an extended closure). Some people will have to money to capitalize on it, but it won't be all at once. It's going to be slow and lots of people will be out of work and starving to death or having less healthcare and dying than immediately before this crisis. Another month to 6 weeks of this (it's already been basically 2 weeks in Austin, a couple days more in the right-outside-of-that place I live) and it's going to get bad for small businesses that rely on in person contact. Customers (most of them) like human contact and having positive interactions. They want it. They want to go to a place and do a thing. That's shut down.

Do you know what my wife and I don't want to do on a date? Sit at home and watch a movie after ordering dinner in. But that's all we have right now because the things we want to do are forcing shut down. And it had nothing to do with their business model or being willing to work remote. It's just the nature of the business and that fact that the government told them to shut down.

I say all of this as someone for whom the only impact of the shelter in place orders I'm under on the city I live and the city I work is that I get home from work 30 minutes faster. It's generally been a blessing to have 2.5 hours per week of my life back. I can't go on a date with my wife, but I've only missed one of those so far. Otherwise I don't really go out, so it hasn't impacted me that much.

That doesn't stop me from seeing that the overall economic impact of this is large and getting larger. And I can see the people that aren't in my position, that can't still go to work or can't work from home, and I feel bad for them. There's nothing they could do with their business besides try to picky to something what entirely, to a market with established competitors that are better positioned to succeed because they've already been there. Like I said, Boober Eats is genius but every company can't do that. Out doesn't make them weak or stupid or clinging to an outdated model. It's just reality.

EDIT: Good golly that was long. I feel like Mack

Some companies have already begun to adapt, but the consumer out there is still willing and wanting to purchase things. People still need food right? Obviously some businesses require physical things, but many don't. Your scenarios with all the pain is a result of an economy not build to handle such events. Gotta think out of the box and let the economy grow and move to what it should be. I have plenty of local businesses around me that are adapting to ensure their customers can still get what they want. Transitions are never easy, there are always people resistant to change. It's happening regardless though, it doesn't matter if someone wants to kick and scream as they get dragged along, but it's out of their control. That's pandemic or not, just look at trends, it's going to happen, the quicker we embrace it and adapt ourselves the better it is for everyone, the longer we fight it for the few jobs that are going to go away anyway the more it'll suck for everyone.

Of course there will still be jobs that don't work that way. We still have factory jobs and farm jobs today. However the majority of the work force can and should be retrained and moved into other sectors. A desire to plug ones ears, stick on the hard hat and keep going down into the mines will only go so far.

And what data do you have to support this claim? None of the current data, either from the cruise ship nor from the various countries that have outbreaks supports such a conclusion. Most of the data supports that the majority of people that come in contact with the virus will be asymptomatic or develop mild symptoms. This is your least vulnerable demographic. If they have no symptoms, why would it take them out? If they have mild symptoms, they can stay home until the symptoms pass, but they are not taken out long. The concern with this virus is not with those that are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms and recover (both of which help build herd immunity that defends against future pandemics from the same virus). The concern is for those that have extra vulnerability due to age and/or pre-existing conditions that would aggravate the effect of contracting the virus.

You don't think millions of people getting sick and dying in rapid succession will impact the economy?

Why wouldn't it? Certainly, a few here or there would get the virus still, but most wouldn't, and if you prevent quarantining the vulnerable with the asymptomatic - which IS occurring now - you reduce the chance that the latter will pass the disease to the former.

Where you draw the line is on a case-by-case basis. There is no overarching entity that can make a blanket decision for every person in the country.

The only way to slow the infection in away that it doesn't overload hospitals (and even then it can) is to have people isolate. If everyone is returning to normal, you're still going to have millions of people get sick. We're seeing young and otherwise healthy people die from this disease as well, plus with overloaded hospitals for months or even over a year, that means people who are sick or injured from other things will have their chances of dying increased dramatically as they are unable to be given the healthcare that they need due to shortages and overcrowding.

There is not now, nor has their been any danger of the asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic people overloading the hospitals. By definition, they don't need hospitalization, and the latter group needs mostly a few days of Netflix and chill away from other people.

Which would have massive impacts on the economy anyway, but we're still seeing young and healthy people get sick and dying from this diseases, which makes your claim that there wouldn't be any real danger is highly suspect at best.



I'm not looking to get into some big debate, I'm just saying if we don't look to improve, grow, and adapt our economy we're doomed to repeat the same hardships over and over again until we die. Because that's the end game of a stagnate refusal to grow economy. It, and the civilization that worshiped it, dies. Much sooner than they would have otherwise. If everyone refused to embrace new technology as it came out we wouldn't have ever made it out of the caves.
 

CeeZar

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The further this thing goes the more I am starting to feel like the human race needs a supervirus to wipe out a big portion of people. And hopefully it'll be the fucktards getting tested for no reason.

Not too long ago my favorite gripe while sitting in traffic or in a big-ass line at the store was the we need a good plague to take out about 1/3 of the population. It was just dark humor back then. I think I'll keep that one in the back pocket for a couple of years....
 

Dieter the Brock

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Nice article with companies developing vaccines/covid cures

 

Mojo Ram

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It is important to note that this is "case fatality rate" not virus fatality rate. Meaning that the reported fatality rate is only meaningful in relation to confirmed cases. We know that total cases (unconfirmed + confirmed) is much higher than confirmed - perhaps by an order of magnitude or more. So the actual fatality rate of someone that gets the virus is certainly much, much lower than the case fatality rate.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/confirmed-coronavirus-cases-almost-meaningless-123550415.html
Yes, the site is very clear about CFR and what it is. Personally i feel like the media is very good about headlining with infected and death numbers, while not so good at going into the model of who's dying.
 

Mojo Ram

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What are the symptoms?

Fever, dry cough and difficulty breathing are hallmarks of coronavirus.
Symptoms may appear anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks after exposure, the CDC says, though some patients haven’t shown symptoms at all.
The illness varies in its severity, and many patients can recover at home in isolation.
Older adults — ages 60 and older — and people with severe chronic illness are more likely to get seriously sick from the coronavirus.


What exactly does 'older' adults mean? What is the age threshold?

The CDC says “older adults“ and people with serious chronic medical conditions “are at higher risk of getting very sick from this illness.”
Anyone over 60 and those with underlying health problems should try to avoid places with large crowds – such as movie theaters, busy malls and even religious services, infectious disease experts say.

“This ought to be top of mind for people over 60, and those with underlying health problems,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a Vanderbilt University professor and longtime CDC adviser.

But why is age 60 often used as a threshold for those who need to be extra cautious?
“(The) average age of death for people from coronavirus is 80. Average age of people who need medical attention is age 60,” US Surgeon General Jerome Adams said.
Read more about what adults 60 and older should do to prevent coronavirus.
----------------------------
From a Q&A webpage compiled by a CNN Senior news writer
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-questions-answers/#topic-menu
 

Mojo Ram

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From March 3rd
Who is getting sick, and how sick? A breakdown of coronavirus risk by demographic factors

The new coronavirus is not an equal-opportunity killer: Being elderly and having other illnesses, for instance, greatly increases the risk of dying from the disease the virus causes, Covid-19. It’s also possible being male could put you at increased risk.

For both medical and public health reasons, researchers want to figure out who’s most at risk of being infected and who’s most at risk of developing severe or even lethal illness. With that kind of information, clinicians would know whom to treat more aggressively, government officials would have a better idea of steps to take, and everyone would know whether they need to take special, additional precautions.

Here’s what research has shown three months into the outbreak:
Old and young

The vast majority of cases in China — 87% — were in people ages 30 to 79, the China Center for Disease Control reported last month based on data from all 72,314 of those diagnosed with Covid-19 as of Feb. 11. That probably reflects something about biology more than lifestyle, such as being in frequent contact with other people. Teens and people in their 20s also encounter many others, at school and work and on public transit, yet they don’t seem to be contracting the disease at significant rates: Only 8.1% of cases were 20-somethings, 1.2% were teens, and 0.9% were 9 or younger. The World Health Organization mission to China found that 78% of the cases reported as of Feb. 20 were in people ages 30 to 69.

The death toll skews old even more strongly. Overall, China CDC found, 2.3% of confirmed cases died. But the fatality rate was 14.8% in people 80 or older, likely reflecting the presence of other diseases, a weaker immune system, or simply worse overall health. By contrast, the fatality rate was 1.3% in 50-somethings, 0.4% in 40-somethings, and 0.2% in people 10 to 39.

The age-related death risk probably reflects the strength, or weakness, of the respiratory system. About half of the 109 Covid-19 patients (ages 22 to 94) treated at Central Hospital of Wuhan, researchers there reported, developed acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), in which fluid builds up in the small air sacs of the lungs. That restricts how much air the lungs can take in, reducing the oxygen supply to vital organs, sometimes fatally; half of the ARDS patients died, compared to 9% of patients who did not develop the syndrome.

The ARDS patients had an average age of 61, compared to an average age of 49 for those who did not develop ARDS. Elderly patients “were more likely to develop ARDS,” the researchers wrote, suggesting how age can make Covid-19 more severe and even fatal: age increases the risk that the respiratory system will basically shut down under viral assault.

Youth, in contrast, seems to be protective. The WHO mission reported a relatively low incidence in people under 18, who made up only 2.4% of all reported cases. In fact, through mid-January, zero children in Wuhan, the epicenter of the outbreak, had contracted Covid-19. It’s not clear whether that’s because children do not show signs of illness even if infected.

Even cases among children and teens aged 10 to 19 are rare. As of Feb. 11 there were 549 cases in that age group, 1.2% of the total, China CDC found. Only one had died

One intriguing explanation for the apparent resilience of youth: in regions near Hubei province, young children seem especially likely to be exposed to other coronaviruses, scientists in China reported in 2018. That might have given them at least partial immunity to this one.

Men and women

The effect of sex on susceptibility to Covid-19 is less clear than the age effect, but preliminary data suggest men might be more susceptible. China CDC found that 106 men had the disease for every 100 women, while the WHO mission found that men make up 51% of cases. A study of 1,099 Covid-19 patients in Wuhan through Jan. 29 found a greater imbalance: 58% were male, the China Medical Treatment Expert Group for Covid-19 reported last week in the New England Journal of Medicine.

It’s possible the apparent sex imbalance reflects patterns of travel and contacts that make men more likely to be exposed to carriers of the virus, not any inherent biological differences. It’s also possible the apparent worse disease severity in men could skew the data. Among hospitalized patients, there is “a slight predominance of men,” U.S. researchers wrote last week in JAMA. If the virus hits men harder than women, health care systems will see, test, and count more men.

To determine if there are sex differences in susceptibility to infection would require an unethical experiment: expose 1,000 otherwise similar men and women to the virus and see who gets sick.

The difference in fatality rates, however, is real: 1.7% for women and 2.8% for men, China CDC reported.

Sick or healthy

The male-female difference in fatality rates, and perhaps in reported incidence, may arise from differences in underlying health. People with pre-existing illness are more likely to get seriously ill from Covid-19, and men have a higher incidence of such chronic illnesses as cardiovascular disease.

In the first large study of the effect of underlying illness, researchers in China analyzed 1,590 patients from throughout the country with laboratory-confirmed disease. They calculated how “co-morbidities” — existing illnesses — affected the risk of being admitted to intensive care, being put on a ventilator, or dying.

After taking into account the patients’ ages and smoking status, the researchers found that the 399 patients with at least one additional disease (including cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, hepatitis B, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, chronic kidney diseases, and cancer) had a 79% greater chance of requiring intensive care or a respirator or both, or of dying, they reported last week in a paper posted to medRxiv, a preprint site that posts research before it has been peer-reviewed. The 130 with two or more additional diseases had 2.5 times the risk of any of those outcomes.

That fits with what’s known about other respiratory viruses. People with a single co-morbidity who catch avian flu (H7N9) are 3.4 times more likely than otherwise-healthy flu patients to require ventilators and other intensive care. SARS and MERS, which are also caused by coronaviruses, are more severe in patients with underlying illnesses, too.

Breaking down the Covid-19 risk with the most common co-morbidities, the scientists found that cancer raises the risk 3.5-fold, COPD 2.6-fold, and diabetes and hypertension by about 60%. Because it isn’t unusual for someone to have an underlying disease (especially diabetes and hypertension) but not know it, the last figure is likely an underestimate.

Co-morbidities also raise the risk of dying from Covid-19. China CDC’s analysis of 44,672 patients found that the fatality rate in patients who reported no other health conditions was 0.9%. It was 10.5% for those with cardiovascular disease, 7.3% for those with diabetes, 6.3% for people with chronic respiratory diseases such as COPD, 6.0% for people with hypertension, and 5.6% for those with cancer.

Underlying disease might change the course of Covid-19. During the height of the epidemic in Wuhan, 37 of 230 patients receiving dialysis for kidney failure at Renmin Hospital developed the disease. Even though none were sick enough to require intensive care or a mechanical ventilator, six of them died, for a very high fatality rate of 16%. Oddly, however, none of the six died of pneumonia, Renmin researchers reported. Instead, the causes of death were heart disease, stroke, and high blood levels of potassium (a result of kidney failure). The high fatality rate of Covid-19 in already-sick people might result not from the virus but from an exacerbation of existing disease.

About 60% of U.S. adults have at least one underlying health condition, Tom Frieden, former director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told reporters on Monday.

Pregnancy

In early February, Chinese state media reported that a woman infected with the virus gave birth to a baby who later tested positive for it. Newborns might become infected because of close proximity to a patient, like anyone else, but the case raised fears that a pregnant woman can transmit the virus to her fetus via the placenta.

Only one small study has investigated such “vertical transmission.” Scientists at Wuhan University found that, of nine pregnant patients infected with the virus (all had a caesarean section) in their third trimester, none seemed to pass the virus to their babies, all of whom scored at the top of the Apgar scale of newborn health.

As for the mothers, “Covid-19 seems not to be especially severe in pregnant women, at least based on the small number in this study,” the scientists wrote. That was somewhat surprising because pregnancy suppresses the immune system (so it doesn’t attack the fetus); pregnant women are more susceptible to respiratory pathogens than non-pregnant women. Nevertheless, none of the nine women developed severe Covid-19 pneumonia.

It may be that immuno-suppression is actually helpful. Some of the most serious symptoms of Covid-19 result from an immune system on the rampage rather than a lethargic one, Chinese scientists found: An extreme immune response called cytokine storm, a flood of immune cells and the biochemicals they produce, tears through lung tissue.
-------------------
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03...n-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/
 
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CeeZar

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We'll have to see how this works out. This has the potential to keep people out of the hospital and to get those that do have to go into the hospital out of it quicker. I'd bet that it won't be too long before we see anyone showing symptoms being prescribed this as the first course of action if they are not in the risk group for side effects.

 

IBruce80

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The media here in japan announced that the govt had done just the same.
Tokyos cases surged over the weekend, but many people stayed in because the weather was bad.
Then today the news reported tracking and hotspots compared to the weekend before.
Anyway, numbers have miraculousy dropped to about 40 cases from 200.
In a day.

This is good, but also worrying.
Numbers all over the world continue to escalate, yet Japan keeps pulling in low cases.
Then with only one weekend of most people isolating, cases drop significantly.

Theres a lot of speculation here.
I find it troublesome how japan can almost effortlessly keep numbers low whilst the rest of the world cant contain it despite stricter measures.
 

Mojo Ram

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80+ yrs old with pre-existing underlying health issues are predominantly the people who are dying.

60+ yrs old with pre-existing underlying health issues are predominantly the people who are requiring hospitalization.

Act accordingly.
 
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