Covid 19 thread

[-X-]

Agreed, it's really hard accepting we have the worst numbers in the World.

Should have followed the Sweden model. They're so far down the chart now that you have to scroll to find them. But during the initial onset of this pandemic, their approach was widely condemned by our media and 'health professionals' as reckless and dangerous. Meanwhile, we're all running around like lemmings, wearing masks, and it is now proven - through a CDC study, no less - to have very little benefit. One could even go as far as to say it has no benefit at all.

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...

www.cdc.gov

Near the bottom of this chart, you can see that in their control group, 70% of people who *always* wear masks, contracted it anyway. Conversely, only 3.9% of the people who *never* wear face masks, contracted it. There is no mitigation strategy that can stop this from happening. No more than you can stop the cold from transmitting from person to person. All the people who wear masks (myself included) are doing so because we're told to by the establishments we have to visit. Meanwhile, 75% of people in this Country still don't wash their hands before they eat, they touch their masks CONSTANTLY throughout the day (probably 100% of people do that), and then touch everything else, and basically aren't following the most important measure you can take to mitigate the spread. Stop being a filthy bastard and wash your damn hands. Very rarely do people walk around spitting pellets of saliva on each other. That's the only thing masks are good for. Nothing else. We've been told to follow good hygiene measures from day 1. Very few people do that. And now that they're using masks, it makes it even harder to do it. Because, again, people are touching those filthy masks constantly throughout the day.

So there's "the science". Now try to find that study through a Google search.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Should have followed the Sweden model. They're so far down the chart now that you have to scroll to find them. But during the initial onset of this pandemic, their approach was widely condemned by our media and 'health professionals' as reckless and dangerous. Meanwhile, we're all running around like lemmings, wearing masks, and it is now proven - through a CDC study, no less - to have very little benefit. One could even go as far as to say it has no benefit at all.

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...

www.cdc.gov

Near the bottom of this chart, you can see that in their control group, 70% of people who *always* wear masks, contracted it anyway. Conversely, only 3.9% of the people who *never* wear face masks, contracted it. There is no mitigation strategy that can stop this from happening. No more than you can stop the cold from transmitting from person to person. All the people who wear masks (myself included) are doing so because we're told to by the establishments we have to visit. Meanwhile, 75% of people in this Country still don't wash their hands before they eat, they touch their masks CONSTANTLY throughout the day (probably 100% of people do that), and then touch everything else, and basically aren't following the most important measure you can take to mitigate the spread. Stop being a filthy bastard and wash your damn hands. Very rarely do people walk around spitting pellets of saliva on each other. That's the only thing masks are good for. Nothing else. We've been told to follow good hygiene measures from day 1. Very few people do that. And now that they're using masks, it makes it even harder to do it. Because, again, people are touching those filthy masks constantly throughout the day.

So there's "the science". Now try to find that study through a Google search.

Yeah, if there’s anything we’ve learned in the last 7 months, it’s that masks don’t help.

Good Lord

70% of people who *always* wear masks, contracted it anyway. Conversely, only 3.9% of the people who *never* wear face masks, contracted it.

Wow, so one is 17 times more likely to get it if wearing a mask! That data doesn’t sound like made-up silliness at all! Clearly, everyone in the world should get rid of masks... they’re making us all profoundly less safe!

In other news....
32% of traffic fatalities involve drunk drivers. 68% of traffic fatalities do not. Clearly then, we’d all be safer if we had more drunk drivers! Follow the science!

Sorry for the snark, but it’s hard to have patience with this...

 

[-X-]

Yeah, if there’s anything we’ve learned in the last 7 months, it’s that masks don’t help.

Good Lord

True. At least not as well as people claim they do.

Partly false claim: Wear a face mask; COVID-19 risk reduced by up to 98.5%

Illustrations widely shared on social media claim to show the percentage decreases in the risk of COVID-19 contagion when people wear face masks. ( https://www.facebook.com/peacefulparenting/photos/a.10153890804242671/10157139567162671/?type=3&theater , https://www.facebook.com...

www.reuters.com

 

[XXXIVwin]

True. At least not as well as people claim they do.

Partly false claim: Wear a face mask; COVID-19 risk reduced by up to 98.5%

Illustrations widely shared on social media claim to show the percentage decreases in the risk of COVID-19 contagion when people wear face masks. ( https://www.facebook.com/peacefulparenting/photos/a.10153890804242671/10157139567162671/?type=3&theater , https://www.facebook.com...

www.reuters.com

Article is from April. Hundreds of studies since then.

 

[12intheBox]

Masks don’t stop you from getting it - they make it harder for you to spread it to others.

If it were as simple as - wear a mask and you won’t get it - then there would be very few “mask nazis”. I think most people who believe in science would simply let natural selection do its thing.

But that isn’t the case. I can’t simply take care of me and let you do you. We impact one another. In an incredible act of irony, as divided as we have become - we need each other to fight this thing. And so far, we aren’t looking so hot.

I can make analogies - we can all spew and spin statistics - we can link studies that we think support our point of view - but that doesn’t seem to be moving the needle for any of us.

I am asking you all - please, wear masks in public. Try to social distance as much as you reasonably can. Do it for the other people in the world - unless you are really old, the world hasn’t asked much of you. This isn’t that big of an ask.

 

[-X-]

Yeah, if there’s anything we’ve learned in the last 7 months, it’s that masks don’t help.

Good Lord

70% of people who *always* wear masks, contracted it anyway. Conversely, only 3.9% of the people who *never* wear face masks, contracted it.

Wow, so one is 17 times more likely to get it if wearing a mask! That data doesn’t sound like made-up silliness at all! Clearly, everyone in the world should get rid of masks... they’re making us all profoundly less safe!

In other news....
32% of traffic fatalities involve drunk drivers. 68% of traffic fatalities do not. Clearly then, we’d all be safer if we had more drunk drivers! Follow the science!

Sorry for the snark, but it’s hard to have patience with this...

Tell the CDC. I didn’t conduct the study. They did.

 

[RamBall]

Masks don’t stop you from getting it - they make it harder for you to spread it to others.

If it were as simple as - wear a mask and you won’t get it - then there would be very few “mask nazis”. I think most people who believe in science would simply let natural selection do its thing.

But that isn’t the case. I can’t simply take care of me and let you do you. We impact one another. In an incredible act of irony, as divided as we have become - we need each other to fight this thing. And so far, we aren’t looking so hot.

I can make analogies - we can all spew and spin statistics - we can link studies that we think support our point of view - but that doesn’t seem to be moving the needle for any of us.

I am asking you all - please, wear masks in public. Try to social distance as much as you reasonably can. Do it for the other people in the world - unless you are really old, the world hasn’t asked much of you. This isn’t that big of an ask.

The biggest problem with this is that if a mask were effective enough to prevent the spread of covid, everyone wearing one would die of suffocation. There are people wearing cloth masks which offer very little protection, people wearing surgical masks which may offer some protection and people wearing n95 masks with relief valves that dont protect anyone other than the wearer. Sweden did appear to do this right, protect the elderly and high risk members of society. Those that are young and or healthy are at a very low risk of death or serious complications. Keep the children in school and keep businesses open. Limit the number of patrons in restaurants and practice social distancing.

The science shows that it takes prolonged contact with a person that has covid or possibly picking it up off a surface and touching your mouth or nose, as almost everyone does while wearing a mask.

 

[-X-]

I am asking you all - please, wear masks in public. Try to social distance as much as you reasonably can. Do it for the other people in the world - unless you are really old, the world hasn’t asked much of you. This isn’t that big of an ask.

We all are. States all have policies in place, and near as I can tell, everyone is following them. And yet, people who wear them are still testing positive. Know why? I’ll give you one example. I watched a lady today get frustrated that her phone wouldn’t unlock because it was set up with facial recognition. So she pulled her mask down, unlocked her phone, put her mask back on, and then I watched her do it again five minutes later.

Phone-face-phone-face.

Then, I watched her grab a door knob and go into an office with someone following her in and grabbing the same door knob. So what do you suppose would happen if the first lady had Covid?

 

[Allen2McVay]

The biggest problem with this is that if a mask were effective enough to prevent the spread of covid, everyone wearing one would die of suffocation.

What does this mean?

 

[-X-]

What does this mean?

It means surgical and cloth masks don’t stop the virus from getting in. They aren’t designed to.

 

[RamBall]

What does this mean?

If a mask were 100% effective at stopping covid it would prevent a person from being able to breathe.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Tell the CDC. I didn’t conduct the study. They did.

No. That CDC study doesn’t show anything you *think* it does. Even the very study you cited explicitly endorses mask use.

70% of mask-wearing respondents tested positive compared to “only” 3.9% of non-mask wearers for a simple reason. It was this: thankfully, a heckuva lot more participants wore masks compared to the numbskulls who did not!

This total misinterpretation of the CDC study is analogous to my drunk-driving example. Yes, by sheer numbers, many more people are killed in car accidents while driving sober as compared to those killed while driving drunk. So does this mean someone should look at the data and say, "Hey, everyone should drive drunk because it must be safer to drive that way"?!?

Only thing you've proven by citing that pro-mask CDC study is that people can twist themselves into pretzels in order to fit a preconceived notion.

Again, sorry for the snark, but I just can't have patience for a post that says "See, this study proves masks don't work" when the study did NOT show that in any way-- and even explicitly endorsed the opposite.

 

[Allen2McVay]

If a mask were 100% effective at stopping covid it would prevent a person from being able to breathe.

OK. It was sarcastic.

100% effective would mean can not breathe.

I was confused because your post was otherwise serious.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[thirteen28]

The biggest problem with this is that if a mask were effective enough to prevent the spread of covid

If masks were truly effective, they would have been opposed with the same zeal as HCQ.

 

[-X-]

No. That CDC study doesn’t show anything you *think* it does. Even the very study you cited explicitly endorses mask use.

Sure it does. I think the study shows me that mask wearing doesn't guarantee that you won't catch Covid. Which is the only thing I've been saying with regard to wearing masks. The sample size is small, sure, but it validates what i thought. That's not in dispute.

70% of mask-wearing respondents tested positive compared to “only” 3.9% of non-mask wearers for a simple reason. It was this: thankfully, a heckuva lot more participants wore masks compared to the numbskulls who did not!

Okay?

I don't have a problem with people wearing masks. I'm not advocating for people to stop wearing them.

This total misinterpretation of the CDC study is analogous to my drunk-driving example. Yes, by sheer numbers, many more people are killed in car accidents while driving sober as compared to those killed while driving drunk. So does this mean someone should look at the data and say, "Hey, everyone should drive drunk because it must be safer to drive that way"?!?

I'm glad you said that. Because "the science" says that if we dropped the speed limit on all roads to 25 MPH, there would be a reduction in traffic-related deaths by probably up to 90%. Why don't we follow the science? "The science" also shows that if we abolished alcohol, we could save up to 3 million people annually on a global scale. Why not follow that science? How about fast foods? "The science" indicates that unhealthy eating is the top cause of deaths in the world. Let's get rid of that too, if we're going to follow the science. Know why we don't do any of that? Think about it. Now think about why people want their liberties to remain in tact with regard to lockdowns.

Only thing you've proven by citing that pro-mask CDC study is that people can twist themselves into pretzels in order to fit a preconceived notion.

Nah. The only thing I've proven is that I'm capable of offering a different POV on the "mask debate". It's not a masks are infallible mechanisms for stopping the virus - vs - masks are completely useless. It's an open dialogue that touches on the dangers of herding everyone into a particular viewpoint. See, you're completely entitled to your opinion on these things, but you're not entitled to mine. If I think that there are mitigation measures that I think are flawed, I'm going to express that.

Again, sorry for the snark, but I just can't have patience for a post that says "See, this study proves masks don't work" when the study did NOT show that in any way-- and even explicitly endorsed the opposite.

On the contrary. It absolutely did show that people who wear masks *religiously* caught the virus anyway. I've said on multiple occasions in this thread, that everyone is going to catch this virus, and that draconian measures and/or shaming other people isn't going to keep it from happening. As we close the chapter on this stupid virus one day in the future, I'm certain I'll be proven correct on that. As far as your use of snark, I don't care. I'll debate your points no matter how you present them. Doesn't matter to me.

 

[Allen2McVay]

If masks were truly effective, they would have been opposed with the same zeal as HCQ.

What does that mean?

Are you saying that Hydroxychloroquine IS effective, and that is why the medical experts did not support its use but masks are NOT effective, and that is why the medical experts did support its use?

Is this more sarcasm, or do you really believe that?

 

[thirteen28]

Are you saying that Hydroxychloroquine IS effective, and that is why the medical experts did not support its use but masks are NOT effective, and that is why the medical experts did support its use?

Plenty of medical experts DID say HCQ was effective, including doctors that actually treated patients with it. The patients that saw their symptoms disappear in short order agreed. Doesn't work for everybody. But did work for a lot of people. So why the zeal by so many to suppress that information?

Is this more sarcasm, or do you really believe that?

Oh, I absolutely believe that. Unequivocally. Any easy solution to the pandemic that doesn't result in power and/or profits for various entities is and has been relentlessly opposed. Never underestimate the power of human greed, or the greed for power over other humans.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Sure it does. I think the study shows me that mask wearing doesn't guarantee that you won't catch Covid. Which is the only thing I've been saying with regard to wearing masks. The sample size is small, sure, but it validates what i thought. That's not in dispute.


Okay?

I don't have a problem with people wearing masks. I'm not advocating for people to stop wearing them.


I'm glad you said that. Because "the science" says that if we dropped the speed limit on all roads to 25 MPH, there would be a reduction in traffic-related deaths by probably up to 90%. Why don't we follow the science? "The science" also shows that if we abolished alcohol, we could save up to 3 million people annually on a global scale. Why not follow that science? How about fast foods? "The science" indicates that unhealthy eating is the top cause of deaths in the world. Let's get rid of that too, if we're going to follow the science. Know why we don't do any of that? Think about it. Now think about why people want their liberties to remain in tact with regard to lockdowns.


Nah. The only thing I've proven is that I'm capable of offering a different POV on the "mask debate". It's not a masks are infallible mechanisms for stopping the virus - vs - masks are completely useless. It's an open dialogue that touches on the dangers of herding everyone into a particular viewpoint. See, you're completely entitled to your opinion on these things, but you're not entitled to mine. If I think that there are mitigation measures that I think are flawed, I'm going to express that.


On the contrary. It absolutely did show that people who wear masks *religiously* caught the virus anyway. I've said on multiple occasions in this thread, that everyone is going to catch this virus, and that draconian measures and/or shaming other people isn't going to keep it from happening. As we close the chapter on this stupid virus one day in the future, I'm certain I'll be proven correct on that. As far as your use of snark, I don't care. I'll debate your points no matter how you present them. Doesn't matter to me.

Sweet! Great post. IMHO you did a great job of expressing your POV on this.

Main thing I'd quibble with is what seems to be a significant difference in wording in this post compared to a previous one.

In this post you said:

"I think the study shows me that mask wearing doesn't guarantee that you won't catch Covid. Which is the only thing I've been saying with regard to wearing masks......I don't have a problem with people wearing masks. I'm not advocating for people to stop wearing them."

However, in a previous post you wrote:

"Meanwhile, we're all running around like lemmings, wearing masks, and it is now proven - through a CDC study, no less - to have very little benefit. One could even go as far as to say it [mask wearing] has no benefit at all."

I completely agree with your sentence, "mask wearing doesn't guarantee that you won't catch Covid." Agreed, not a 100% guarantee. But I completely disagree with your sentence, "One could even go as far as to say it [mask wearing] has no benefit at all."

And yeah, your points about abolishing alcohol and reducing the speed limit to 25MPH-- all well taken. I get it.

And again, I very much appreciate you taking the high road as you expressed your POV, especially since I messed up a bit in the snark department. Cheers

 

[-X-]

I completely agree with your sentence, "mask wearing doesn't guarantee that you won't catch Covid." Agreed, not a 100% guarantee. But I completely disagree with your sentence, "One could even go as far as to say it [mask wearing] has no benefit at all."

Well then let me further clarify.

... *to the individual*

-> one <- could say it has no benefit at all ... to the individual. As a society, I'm not 100% convinced that everyone wearing masks is beneficial to society as a whole, but I'm willing to entertain the notion that it does. To me, there are just so many reasons why it doesn't benefit society (and there are compelling studies on this too) but there are an equal amount of reasons out there as to why it does.

All we can do is what we're mandated to do. I wear them everywhere I'm supposed to, without objection, and I don't wear them where they're not required. Because in the end, I believe I'm going to catch it no matter what I do (if I haven't already), and I *prefer* not wearing one when I don't have to. But that's just me, bub. I'm not trying to harm anyone else. I just have a preference.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Oh, I absolutely believe that. Unequivocally. Any easy solution to the pandemic that doesn't result in power and/or profits for various entities is and has been relentlessly opposed. Never underestimate the power of human greed, or the greed for power over other humans.

OK, and thanks for the response/clarification.