Covid 19 thread

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Allen2McVay

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Jim
Do I wear masks now? Yes, because I choose to in courtesy for others until it seems like they have a handle on things. If they never do, then fukk that in the ass.
Three countries that have shown some of the least amount of discipline, strength and wisdom by failing to wear masks are the U.S., Brazil and Great Britain.

Combined they have almost half the World’s deaths from this virus.
 

snackdaddy

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If they go total lock down again in California, I'll be ok with it. Would save lives. I'm fine with social distancing. Been doing that long before covid. Not to mention how much money we'll save if the wife can't go shopping. The golf courses closing would be the only inconvenience for me.
 

12intheBox

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1918 Spanish Flu, 55 million died in a world composed of1.8 billion people.

2020 COVID 19 Armageddon, 565K have died in world composed of 7.8 billion.
Spanish Flu lasted from February of 1918 to April of 1920

Might be a bit early to start comparing numbers.
 
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12intheBox

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Motive?

lol Motive?

Look at the impact on the Western worlds economy for crying out loud, China is NOT our friend (at least thru my pov) or should I say, currently our friend...which shouldn’t surprise anyone. lol as apparently many are not ( gotta tread lightly around this critical point)

You know I once saw a picture of a surfboard, with a missing surfer and an obvious shark bite on the board, it had the caption...but did you actually see the shark?

My problem is unfortunately I can‘t produce a picture of the damn shark for you, lol, dammit!

Dude, I like you, your football takes are usually solid, and I hope this doesn’t drive a wedge between us, but we just need to agree to disagree on this topic, we both obviously see things differently and have all along, I have zero desire to change one’s opinion, just trying to put forth mine, which hopefully isn’t the end of the world doing so.

Peace
I like you too, OC. And I hope I’m not coming across as combative. I don’t think we are delving into politics on this origin talk, either.

Here is what I don’t get - it sounds like you are suggesting that it was released intentionally. I don’t want to put words in your mouth. Is that the theory here? That this was an attack?

I’m not asking for any proof - this isn’t a trial. I’m just interested in your thoughts - and certainly, I anticipate that I may challenge some of those thoughts.
 

OC--LeftCoast

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I want and still cling to the belief China was working on “something“ they shouldn’t have BEEN working on and it inadvertently got away, however they are a totalitarian Communist Dictatorship with little regard for their civilians welfare, so no, it would not surprise me if this wasn’t an accident (their immediate reactions reek with “oh snap we gotta play this down” guilt, which can be easily painted over. (And believe me, half of their artwork has been linked over here on this thread)

I regret not snapping the picture of that shark biting the surfboard, obviously in a court of Law, my case is thrown out before trial

If you must however put me on the stand :D I would ask beforehand you address why was China in the early days not co-operating, in fact they were confining Doctors, expelling Western Reporters and unbelievably allowing international Flights departing all over the world from Wuhan while at the same time restricting Domestic travel to Wuhan

Fair enough then? Those are my indicators of guilt someone needs to explain in order to change my mind
 
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12intheBox

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If you must however put me on the stand :D I would ask beforehand you address why was China in the early days not co-operating, in fact they were confining Doctors, expelling Western Reporters and unbelievably allowing international Flights departing all over the world from Wuhan while at the same time restricting Domestic travel to Wuhan
Well, of course I don’t know.

But ....

China - like many superpowers - has made efforts to control information for decades. They don’t exactly have a free press over there - and haven’t given western journos full access - ever.

I’m sure they wanted to control the narrative - the same way many governments did. Maybe to protect their economic interests and control their populace.

As for restricting incoming traffic, isn’t that just pandemic 101? You want to control what comes in - it’s on others to monitor what is coming into their countries. Selfish? Absolutely. But that’s how governments work - they care about theirs and screw everyone else. We aren’t restricting our people from leaving the US - it’s on other countries not to let us in.

Do you suspect that our intelligence community has given this idea a pretty good look at this point? I have to imagine that they have. And they don’t need the picture of the shark, they can read between the lines. If this was intentional - it means world war 3 - I don’t see how it couldn’t.

Ask yourself this - when H1N1 originated in the U.S. - do you think it looked like a duck to China?
 

OC--LeftCoast

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Are your seriously comparing H1N1 to rona?

Very generic answer on the first question (cover up) not exactly an opinion swaying take.

Pretty much nothing on the 2nd (exporting the virus worldwide when China absolutely knew there was a big big problem, but hey why not make it global) There just isn’t one simple answer to dismiss this, they exported the greatest plague of our lifetime while at the same time were taking internal protective measures, sorry your reasoning is imo very questionable.

Lastly, absolutely no one on this site ( not even Rambo :giggle: ) has any insight about US Intelligence. You can rest assured they’re on it, I’d say this is ongoing, I’m not rooting at all for this to be intentional and still don’t believe it was, but just naturally morphing from Centuries old practice to...this, is borderline ridiculous, and let’s just ignore the Chemical Warfare Factory right down the block from the origin.

And then there’s the Elephant in the room, can’t touch that one and won’t


We both share different views, and I’m OK with that, I suggest we move on.
 

flv

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The problem with 'personal liberty guys' is they expect everyone else to adhere to the identical personal liberty values that they hold. (I'm not immune from this).

EG: There's a queue. Everyone in the queue is wearing a mask and following social distancing procedures. Someone joins the queue and that person refuses to either wear a mask or adhere to social distancing. Just as the person without the mask gets to the front of the queue someone with a mask decides to jump the queue so that they're served next. The person without the mask is outraged. Why? The queue-jumper is merely exercising their personal liberty point of view that queues are anti law-of-the-jungle, or that they're more important and they should be served first. Queuing isn't a legal requirement. The person serving at the front can serve whomever they want first. Queuing is just a social etiquette nicety - as is wearing a mask. The bottom line is I as an individual can't condemn others for their personal liberty values whilst I follow my own - at least not without being totally hypocritical.
 

12intheBox

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Are your seriously comparing H1N1 to rona?

Very generic answer on the first question (cover up) not exactly an opinion swaying take.

Pretty much nothing on the 2nd (exporting the virus worldwide when China absolutely knew there was a big big problem, but hey why not make it global) There just isn’t one simple answer to dismiss this, they exported the greatest plague of our lifetime while at the same time were taking internal protective measures, sorry your reasoning is imo very questionable.

Lastly, absolutely no one on this site ( not even Rambo :giggle: ) has any insight about US Intelligence. You can rest assured they’re on it, I’d say this is ongoing, I’m not rooting at all for this to be intentional and still don’t believe it was, but just naturally morphing from Centuries old practice to...this, is borderline ridiculous, and let’s just ignore the Chemical Warfare Factory right down the block from the origin.

And then there’s the Elephant in the room, can’t touch that one and won’t


We both share different views, and I’m OK with that, I suggest we move on.
I’m not trying to convince you of anything - just trying to understand why you keep seeing a duck. But onward we go ....
 

Merlin

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I will say one thing, and I really don't care if anyone agrees with me or not. I'm a personal liberty guy.. The wearing of masks, and more the coercion of people into wearing masks has a limit for me. I will not wear masks after a certain point and anyone telling me to do so in a year will get the stink eye from me or worse. Yes, there are vulnerable people to Covid, but humanity has been getting all sorts o bugs in the air for the last 40,000 years. This seems to be a long term game by germaphobes to force everyone to wear masks by appealing to your sympathy. Do I wear masks now? Yes, because I choose to in courtesy for others until it seems like they have a handle on things. If they never do, then fukk that in the ass.
I'm the same way. I have a very strong dislike of being told what to do. They invented reverse psychology for people like me.

1918 Spanish Flu, 55 million died in a world composed of1.8 billion people.

2020 COVID 19 Armageddon, 565K have died in world composed of 7.8 billion.
This sums things up nicely doesn't it. And I believe most of the 55M who died during the Spanish Flu died from the actual Spanish Flu. Can't say the same about COVID. It's clearly a threat but the figures are complete horse shit thanks to the money grab by the medical side.

I'd like to see some opinions on something else here too btw: how do we FIX the reporting for the next time this happens. How do we adjust the system so that during the next threat we can see the fucking numbers and feel like they're somewhat accurate.
 
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Loyal

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Spanish Flu lasted from February of 1918 to April of 1920

Might be a bit early to start comparing numbers.
You are right, but you need to look at the numbers plus 6 billion less people in 1918-20. That makes the numbers better than three times worse in 2020, considering the effects of the Spanish Flu.
 
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12intheBox

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You are right, but you need to look at the numbers plus 6 billion less people in 1918-20. That makes the numbers better than three times worse in 2020, considering the effects of the Spanish Flu.
I hope that Covid doesn’t kill another person and that the death toll stops. I hope it’s nothing compared to Spanish flu. But my hope isn’t any more effective than someone else’s skepticism.

While we are waiting, there is a real role we can all play. The Spanish flu taught us things - we have advanced 100 years.

life expectancy in 1920 was 53.2 in the U.S. Its now 78.8.

Part of that increased life expectancy is medical advancement. medical experts right now are telling us to (1) stay home when we can and (2) wear masks.

That is the role we can play in keeping these numbers down. We don’t like having to play a role, I don’t like staying home, I don’t like wearing a mask - but this is where we are. If it means protecting my fellow man, I’ll wear an uncomfortable mask for the rest of my life.

i was never asked to go to war - but I’d like to think I would have been up for it if I was called. I’d like to think of myself as someone who would die for my family and for my country. That’s what a patriot is, isn’t it? Someone willing to sacrifice for the greater good?

Lets sacrifice for one another. Lets protect each other.
 

Loyal

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The problem with 'personal liberty guys' is they expect everyone else to adhere to the identical personal liberty values that they hold. (I'm not immune from this).

EG: There's a queue. Everyone in the queue is wearing a mask and following social distancing procedures. Someone joins the queue and that person refuses to either wear a mask or adhere to social distancing. Just as the person without the mask gets to the front of the queue someone with a mask decides to jump the queue so that they're served next. The person without the mask is outraged. Why? The queue-jumper is merely exercising their personal liberty point of view that queues are anti law-of-the-jungle, or that they're more important and they should be served first. Queuing isn't a legal requirement. The person serving at the front can serve whomever they want first. Queuing is just a social etiquette nicety - as is wearing a mask. The bottom line is I as an individual can't condemn others for their personal liberty values whilst I follow my own - at least not without being totally hypocritical.
Turn around is fair play, isn't it flv? Pro-mask fascists who through law or guilt tripping are trying force those who have never worn masks their entire life to submit. To be clear, I am in the high risk group due to age and health condition. I choose to wear a mask right now, which coincides with a work requirement by my employer at work. When I am tired of it, I will quit.

There is no vaccine and there is likely to be NO vaccine for years to come. When I wear my surgical mask, where I constantly breathe moist air and it's literally hard for me to breathe after 4 hours, yet I can smell top ramen noodles cooking through the mask. Suure that's also stopping covid particles...sure it is.

It is my belief, like Churchill believed, that the only way through hell is straight through and don't stop. I think we're all going to get it eventually and herd immunity is the only way out. Sure the spread is slowed more effectively in some places than others, but it really hasn't stopped, anywhere.
 
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12intheBox

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I'm the same way. I have a very strong dislike of being told what to do. They invented reverse psychology for people like me.


This sums things up nicely doesn't it. And I believe most of the 55M who died during the Spanish Flu died from the actual Spanish Flu. Can't say the same about COVID. It's clearly a threat but the figures are complete horse shit thanks to the money grab by the medical side.

I'd like to see some opinions on something else here too btw: how do we FIX the reporting for the next time this happens. How do we adjust the system so that during the next threat we can see the fucking numbers and feel like they're somewhat accurate.
The idea that Covid deaths are being classified that as such for money is interesting. A lot of this theory seems to stem from Dr. Jensen’s April 8th interview where he talked about the medicare difference authorized by the CARES Act.

After the internet ran with this interview - Jensen was asked to clarify. Here is what he said on the topic:

“Do I think people are misclassifying? No.”

He said his concerns centered on what he deemed “less precise standards” for certifying deaths promulgated by the CDC, and how deaths classified as COVID-19 without corroborating positive test results could lead to an over-counting.

Moreover, hospitals can be held criminally or civilly liable for upcoding cases, including being kicked out of the Medicare program altogether.

Will there be doctors who are unethical? I’m sure there will - we have crooks in all walks of life. But a system with teeth is already in place to stop it and death cases have pretty good forensic paper trails. It seems like a really big risk to take on a programmatic level.

having said all that, skepticism of any reporting is probably still warranted - just not, in my opinion, to the point of ignoring the threat and our role in fighting it.
 
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Merlin

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The idea that Covid deaths are being classified that as such for money is interesting. A lot of this theory seems to stem from Dr. Jensen’s April 8th interview where he talked about the medicare difference authorized by the CARES Act.

After the internet ran with this interview - Jensen was asked to clarify. Here is what he said on the topic:

“Do I think people are misclassifying? No.”

He said his concerns centered on what he deemed “less precise standards” for certifying deaths promulgated by the CDC, and how deaths classified as COVID-19 without corroborating positive test results could lead to an over-counting.

Moreover, hospitals can be held criminally or civilly liable for upcoding cases, including being kicked out of the Medicare program altogether.

Will there be doctors who are unethical? I’m sure there will - we have crooks in all walks of life. But a system with teeth is already in place to stop it and death cases have pretty good forensic paper trails. It seems like a really big risk to take on a programmatic level.

having said all that, skepticism of any reporting is probably still warranted - just not, in my opinion, to the point of ignoring the threat and our role in fighting it.
Just an opinion based on our overall readiness for a threat like this. The truth is we were not ready for it. Moving forward however is what matters and IMO what should be a prime discussion is whether the numbers are real and if they're not, if for whatever reason our system is set up to work against truth in reporting, we need to fix that so that the next threat that comes we are in position to see the truth and act accordingly.

This thing is definitely a threat. It just pisses me off that it's so politicized and monetized. Those two things, IMO, need to be addressed. We have to be able to discuss them, to analyze, fact-find, and fix. There will always be errors of course. But is the system set up in such a way that a hospital lazily reporting will benefit. That's a really big deal from my perspective at least, because we're going to survive this one and need to be ready if something nastier comes along.

It's a great dry run basically. We should learn a ton just hope we learn everything we should I guess is the best way to say it.
 

12intheBox

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Just an opinion based on our overall readiness for a threat like this. The truth is we were not ready for it. Moving forward however is what matters and IMO what should be a prime discussion is whether the numbers are real and if they're not, if for whatever reason our system is set up to work against truth in reporting, we need to fix that so that the next threat that comes we are in position to see the truth and act accordingly.

This thing is definitely a threat. It just pisses me off that it's so politicized and monetized. Those two things, IMO, need to be addressed. We have to be able to discuss them, to analyze, fact-find, and fix. There will always be errors of course. But is the system set up in such a way that a hospital lazily reporting will benefit. That's a really big deal from my perspective at least, because we're going to survive this one and need to be ready if something nastier comes along.

It's a great dry run basically. We should learn a ton just hope we learn everything we should I guess is the best way to say it.
I couldn’t agree more. If a threat like this that has already killed (however many) Americans can’t be the kind of thing we can unify around and fight together against, we are in a bad spot. This should have never been political. It should have been medical from the get go. The people who have spent their careers studying threats like this should have been the ones getting listened to all along.
 
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Reddog99

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My little hometown is > 4000 people and while there was only 1 known case (an elderly lady that lives outside of city limits) in town from March-June there has been an increase in the last week. We're now up to 38 and the town has posted that some of the infected refuse to quarantine or wear ppe. Of course they cant say who is infected.

The town was far more strict back when we only had the 1 case but seems more relaxed while the cases go up every day. The town had a concert on the square with many different people cooking food and hanging out for the 4th along with other gatherings for people to eat and socialize since then and presently. That's how my little town is getting along.