Chicken or egg (QB vs Receiver)

[-X-]

The quality of WRs in this draft in the late 1st and 2nd are better than the quality of QBs.(Tyler Boyd and Sterling Shepard are a couple great examples) And, imo, the quality of the QBs in the first are better than the quality of the WRs.

That's cool, but I'm not impressed with the quality of the QBs after Wentz and Goff.
In fact, we can get Treadwell AND Boyd or Shepard and double-down on the QB elevators.

 

[jrry32]

Yes, that's the route I would take. I'm not convinced that Lynch is any better than Mannion at this point.

Why? What has Mannion shown in the NFL that gives you this sort of faith in him? I really am curious. Not asking you to attack your argument.

He went late 3rd round in a QB class far weaker than this one. And frankly, that was higher than a lot of people expected him to go. He's not a guy that I have any real faith in.(and yes, that does come from my evaluation of him as a prospect)
(and yes, I know the second paragraph is attacking your argument...I am explaining my rationale for why I don't really factor him in)

 

[-X-]

Why? What has Mannion shown in the NFL that gives you this sort of faith in him? I really am curious. Not asking you to attack your argument.

What has Lynch done in the NFL that gives you this sort of faith in him.

 

[jrry32]

That's cool, but I'm not impressed with the quality of the QBs after Wentz and Goff.
In fact, we can get Treadwell AND Boyd or Shepard and double-down on the QB elevators.

If we draft Lynch at #15, we can do the same thing...and we have a young, talented QB.

 

[jrry32]

What has Lynch done in the NFL that gives you this sort of faith in him.

It's what he's done in college that gave me this sort of confidence in him. Something I can't say about Mannion.

 

[-X-]

It's what he's done in college that gave me this sort of confidence in him. Something I can't say about Mannion.

That's fair.
I just disagree with your priorities.

 

[jrry32]

That's fair.
I just disagree with your priorities.

My priorities are winnings and the Super Bowl.

 

[-X-]

My priorities are winnings and the Super Bowl.

I don't know why you brought gambling into this discussion.

 

[Mojo Ram]

a noodle armed sack magnet behind center.

:rolllaugh:

 

[ReddingRam]

Why? What has Mannion shown in the NFL that gives you this sort of faith in him? I really am curious. Not asking you to attack your argument.

He went late 3rd round in a QB class far weaker than this one. And frankly, that was higher than a lot of people expected him to go. He's not a guy that I have any real faith in.(and yes, that does come from my evaluation of him as a prospect)
(and yes, I know the second paragraph is attacking your argument...I am explaining my rationale for why I don't really factor him in)

And what has any QB in this draft done in the NFL ?? Are you kidding me?? Every rational scout says there is NO Luck, Newton, or even a Mariota or Winston in this draft. It's ALL pure crap shoot ... and to move UP to get either Wentz or Goff would cost us plenty while still having needs that need to be addressed.
Now ... IF we were sitting in the top 5 and had a shot .. sure, I'd go QB .. but I don't want to sell the farm for a guy who may or may not be any better than what we have. I'd rather stick at our pick and take the BPA. Giving up picks in this draft with only holding SIX and have other positions to address .... I play it safe. Because there is NO guarantee that any QB in this draft is not going to bust.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I've seen this debate bandied about in the past, but it's particularly relevant to the Rams as we seem to be lacking both. I see some people saying we need to move up and grab the best QB in the draft, and I've seen people (for years) say that no QB on this team is gonna do diddly without a premier pass-catcher on the team.

There are very few QBs in the league who can flourish in a system without good receivers. And there's certainly VERY few rookies who would be able to do so. At the same time, there are very few receivers who would be able to post a good statistical season with a noodle armed sack magnet behind center.

So. Given the state of the Rams, who currently have Keenum slated as the incumbent starter, and their best wideout being Kenny Britt, which is a more important need at this point? Would Keenum look significantly better with an A.J. Green type receiver on the team, or would we be better served trying to acquire the next (in his prime) Peyton Manning and passing on the best receiver?

Yes, we can potentially do both, but I'm not convinced that QB has to come before receiver in the draft in order to acquire both. Are you?

I think a legit, quality QB can make an offense lacking in weapons look good. I don't believe the reverse is true, however. The GSOT with Kyle Boller at QB isn't going to light up the scoreboard.

There's an analogy i like to use. Put a great drummer behind a shitty group of musicians and they'll sound good. Put a shitty drummer behind a great bunch of musicians and the band will sound like shit.

I mentioned in another thread that IMO the Rams need to accomplish at least one of two things this offseason.
1) Acquire a legit QB via draft.(Goff/Wentz) That's kind of a tough thing to do because it will cost draft picks and things have to happen in order to get that done but the Rams have to make something happen at QB at some point.
2) Load up on offensive weapons and look to find that QB another time.

Both would be nice but that's not very realistic.

 

[Mojo Ram]

A good quarterback will make all the receivers better (plus the running back). A good receiver can make plays and put up numbers, but the offense can still stink. Think Josh Gordon and Cleveland. I vote QB.

Agree.

 

[jap]

And what has any QB in this draft done in the NFL ?? Are you kidding me?? Every rational scout says there is NO Luck, Newton, or even a Mariota or Winston in this draft. It's ALL pure crap shoot ... and to move UP to get either Wentz or Goff would cost us plenty while still having needs that need to be addressed.
Now ... IF we were sitting in the top 5 and had a shot .. sure, I'd go QB .. but I don't want to sell the farm for a guy who may or may not be any better than what we have. I'd rather stick at our pick and take the BPA. Giving up picks in this draft with only holding SIX and have other positions to address .... I play it safe. Because there is NO guarantee that any QB in this draft is not going to bust.

. . . but, but, but we are now in the Land of LaLa! We are one of the Showtime! teams in the Showtime! city, and we kinda have to "Show Me!" to a sports audience with a ton of distractions and vacillating interests. Silent Stan has to recoup his millions. Very soon, Aaron then Todd will need to be shown the money. Even Dani will be renegotiating her contract and requesting guaranteed money for all the considerable assets she brings to the team . . . and to us too!!! :mrburnsevil:

Just pointing out there are priorities here that bear thinking about.

 

[-X-]

I mentioned in another thread that IMO the Rams need to accomplish at least one of two things this offseason.
1) Acquire a legit QB via draft.(Goff/Wentz) That's kind of a tough thing to do because it will cost draft picks and things have to happen in order to get that done but the Rams have to make something happen at QB at some point.
2) Load up on offensive weapons and look to find that QB another time.

Both would be nice but that's not very realistic.

Yeah I'd go with #2 if we stay at our spot.
If they don't think Mannion is that guy, then cut bait and sell everything to move up and get that guy.
Otherwise, get some dang weapons on O.

 

[jrry32]

And what has any QB in this draft done in the NFL ?? Are you kidding me??

No, I'm not kidding you. Paxton Lynch is a projected 3rd round pick in a good QB class. Sean Mannion was a late 3rd round pick in a bad QB class. So one of two things must be true:
1. There must have been something Mannion did at the NFL level that X liked
or
2. X considered Mannion to be a better prospect than Lynch is

I could not disagree more with #2 so I was asking X if it was #1.

Every rational scout says there is NO Luck, Newton, or even a Mariota or Winston in this draft. It's ALL pure crap shoot ... and to move UP to get either Wentz or Goff would cost us plenty while still having needs that need to be addressed.

Man, you must have some serious connections if you've talked to every "rational" scout. I've done my own evaluations and I'm content with them.

Now ... IF we were sitting in the top 5 and had a shot .. sure, I'd go QB .. but I don't want to sell the farm for a guy who may or may not be any better than what we have. I'd rather stick at our pick and take the BPA. Giving up picks in this draft with only holding SIX and have other positions to address .... I play it safe. Because there is NO guarantee that any QB in this draft is not going to bust.

There's no guarantee that any player in this draft won't bust. So I'm a bit confused how that's your selling point but you're willing to take that risk with a top 5 pick.

Screw BPA. I'm getting my BVA...a QB.

Addressing other positions means nothing if we continue to have terrible QB play. Keenum, Mannion, and Foles...those were our 3 QBs in 2015 when we had the worst QB play in the NFL.

I don't know why you brought gambling into this discussion.

I'm going all in on the Rams in the Super Bowl.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Yeah I'd go with #2 if we stay at our spot.

I totally agree. No way am i picking a QB at #15 not named Wentz or Goff. I think drafting these other 2nd tier guys would be a redundancy with unproven guys like Mannion and Keenum already on the roster. If the Rams don't move up, then stay put or even trade down and continue to build the roster up. Really hoping they don't reach for a Cook, Lynch etc...

 

[Mojo Ram]

Otherwise, get some dang weapons on O.

Seriously. We've got two weapons.
2
Dos

We've got a few guys who are good football (role)players like Cunnngham, Britt, Kendricks, Harkey etc...but yeah, we need more!

 

[jrry32]

I totally agree. No way am i picking a QB at #15 not named Wentz or Goff. I think drafting these other 2nd tier guys would be a redundancy with unproven guys like Mannion and Keenum already on the roster. If the Rams don't move up, then stay put or even trade down and continue to build the roster up. Really hoping they don't reach for a Cook, Lynch etc...

Y'all are sleeping hard on Paxton Lynch.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Y'all are sleeping hard on Paxton Lynch.

Yeah maybe. I don't like any of those guys.
Would you draft him at #15 if you're the Rams?

 

[jrry32]

Yeah maybe. I don't like any of those guys.
Would you draft him at #15 if you're the Rams?

Yes. Absolutely yes. Kid isn't as pro ready as Goff but I think he's going to be a good one. He's like Bortles. There are some areas of his game that need time and development but he'll get there.