Casserly: "I rate Watkins ahead of Julio Jones"

[Alan]

Good thinking 14!

 

[RamFan503]

Maybe I'm nuts -X-, but if Julio Jones turned out to be a bust in the NFL, think a lot of ppl would be saying "WATKINS IS A BETTER PROSPECT THEN JONES WAS blah blah blah." Not everyone would say that of course, but some I really believe would say that. My point is we should compare the two when they were in college. Using Jones' NFL experience doesn't bold for a fair argument, of course he's better then Watkins RIGHT NOW. Prospect wise, it might be close.

The only problem I would see with going by college stats would be that you would then put several receivers ahead of Watkins in this draft, which clearly is not the case and if you compared him to say Stedman Baily from last year, you would come away thinking Watkins couldn't hold his jock - also something that would appear clearly untrue.

 

[RamsFan14]

The only problem I would see with going by college stats would be that you would then put several receivers ahead of Watkins in this draft, which clearly is not the case and if you compared him to say Stedman Baily from last year, you would come away thinking Watkins couldn't hold his jock - also something that would appear clearly untrue.

I didn't say anything about stats, I'm talking about talking about prospects as a whole. Production, what they are good at, what they are weak at, intangibles, surrounding team, ext.

 

[RFIP]

Maybe I'm nuts -X-, but if Julio Jones turned out to be a bust in the NFL, think a lot of ppl would be saying "WATKINS IS A BETTER PROSPECT THEN JONES WAS blah blah blah." Not everyone would say that of course, but some I really believe would say that. My point is we should compare the two when they were in college. Using Jones' NFL experience doesn't bold for a fair argument, of course he's better then Watkins RIGHT NOW. Prospect wise, it might be close.

Which was the point from the get-go...at least until the thread was hi jacked.

 

[RamsFan14]

Which was the point from the get-go...at least until the thread was hi jacked.

No need to get antsy man, I think people would listen to you a bit more if you played it a bit more cool. Personally I like a lot of your info and what you have to say, but you can't lose your cool, that's where you'll start losing people.

 

[-X-]

Maybe I'm nuts -X-, but if Julio Jones turned out to be a bust in the NFL, think a lot of ppl would be saying "WATKINS IS A BETTER PROSPECT THEN JONES WAS blah blah blah." Not everyone would say that of course, but some I really believe would say that. My point is we should compare the two when they were in college. Using Jones' NFL experience doesn't bold for a fair argument, of course he's better then Watkins RIGHT NOW. Prospect wise, it might be close.

I *was* talking about them as college prospects. Julio was always the more physical and taller receiver. Of course you can never project how they'll perform as professional athletes, but based on what they brought to the table in terms of tangibles, I'd still take Jones over Watkins if they were both coming out right now.

 

[RamFan503]

OK - That makes sense. It also makes sense being that Julio played in a very run heavy offense.

Here's some of what they were saying about Julio Jones in college.

Freshman -

His performance in only his freshman year drew comparisons to NFL greats. ESPN.com reported, "This guy is a unique, rare prospect for the wide receiver position with his supreme blend of size, power, speed and agility. He reminds us of a high school version of Michael Irvin, but at this stage Jones is more explosive and faster."[27] An NFL scout put Jones in the same category as Arizona Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald, who at the time was the second-leading receiver in the NFL

Sophomore -

Preceding the 2009 football season, Julio Jones was voted to the All-SEC Coaches' Football Team (first team), one of only four players to be voted such unanimously (along with Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, Tennessee safety Eric Berry and LSU offensive lineman Ciron Black).[29]

Junior -

Jones ended his Junior campaign with an Alabama record 78 catches and 1,133 yards along with 7 TDs (4th in school history). He also had 8 rushes for 135 yards and 2 TDs along with 5 punt returns for 44 yards and 5 kickoff returns for 129 yards. Jones ended his Alabama career 2nd in career receptions (179) and yards (2,653) and 4th in TD catches (15). He had 8 career 100 receiving games (2nd in school history). Jones was a unanimous 1st Team All-SEC selection in 2010.

He excelled at the 2011 NFL Combine, posting the longest long jump and the third fastest 40-yard dash among receivers,[53] despite having a broken bone in his foot. He ran a 4.38 40 at 6'3" and 220 lbs.

NFL.com's pre draft take -

Jones has the prototypical build to become a No. 1 receiver. A vertical threat due to his height, strength, leaping ability, and speed. Generates big plays after the catch on screens and crossing patterns because of his physicality as a runner. Flashes outstanding hands and ball skills, will make the highlight grabs and haul in passes well outside his frame, but also struggles with bouts of drops. Needs to shore up his hands and route-running to develop into a consistent chain-mover at the next level. Plays aggressively, will go over the middle and block. A foot injury hasn't hindered Jones' upside, and he is projected to be a mid first-round pick.

Easier to find Watkins pre-draft info so compare at will. Seems interesting that Watkins is compared to a mix of Torrey Smith and Percy Harvin while Jones was being compared to Michael Irvin and Larry Fitzgerald. Personally, I don't think Julio has reached anywhere near those comparisons as a pro yet but that's what they were saying about him back then.

Not sure this really gets us anywhere - eh?

I'd be cool with the Rams taking Watkins even though I have other preferences. I don't agree that he has the size and physicality that some others are seeing and therefore, I don't see him as a top 5 type WR. But I'm just a fan so there you go.

 

[Zaphod]

Maybe the Rams should go ahead and draft Clowney and play him at DE and LT.
You know, bring back the days of the two-way player.

With all of his upside, I see absolutely no reason it shouldn't work.

I'm thinking teams would simply run up the middle. More likely that Long would play tackle I think.

 

[jrry32]

just saying, everyone has a favorite who they put ahead of all others, RFIP saying he wouldn't want any other WR other than SW is like you saying you wouldn't want any other OT than Robinson or Mathews, just means you think that player is that much better than the rest, its all opinion.

Well, no, not really. Unless RFIP legitimately believes there are no other WRs in this class that can play outside effectively and produce decently from day one.

 

[jrry32]

Maybe I'm nuts -X-, but if Julio Jones turned out to be a bust in the NFL, think a lot of ppl would be saying "WATKINS IS A BETTER PROSPECT THEN JONES WAS blah blah blah." Not everyone would say that of course, but some I really believe would say that. My point is we should compare the two when they were in college. Using Jones' NFL experience doesn't bold for a fair argument, of course he's better then Watkins RIGHT NOW. Prospect wise, it might be close.

You keep reiterating this demand...have at it, my friend. Nobody is stopping you.

 

[jrry32]

But, RF14, if you'd like a quick comparison of how I rated them as prospects, it would be (all numbers are out of 10):
Height
Julio - 8
Watkins - 6

Build
Julio - 9
Watkins - 8

Speed
Julio - 9
Watkins - 9

Hands
Julio - 7.5
Watkins - 8

Route Running
Julio - 6
Watkins - 6

YAC Ability
Julio - 9
Watkins - 8.5

But this is a pretty simplistic comparison. As you can see, Julio comes out ahead in the overall ratings with 48.5 points to Watkins's 45.5

 

[Memphis Ram]

Maybe I'm nuts -X-, but if Julio Jones turned out to be a bust in the NFL, think a lot of ppl would be saying "WATKINS IS A BETTER PROSPECT THEN JONES WAS blah blah blah." Not everyone would say that of course, but some I really believe would say that. My point is we should compare the two when they were in college. Using Jones' NFL experience doesn't bold for a fair argument, of course he's better then Watkins RIGHT NOW. Prospect wise, it might be close.

Anything is possible, but there seem to be quite a few long time posters/draftniks (from other boards) here, including myself, who were extremely high on Julio Jones before he set foot in the NFL. In fact, outside of showing his physical skills via easily obtainable NFL footage (which I doubt were gained in the NFL), has anyone really compared Pre-Draft Watkins to NFL Jones? If the have, I've missed it, thus this seems like a bit of a strawman.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I *was* talking about them as college prospects. Julio was always the more physical and taller receiver. Of course you can never project how they'll perform as professional athletes, but based on what they brought to the table in terms of tangibles, I'd still take Jones over Watkins if they were both coming out right now.

Quite frankly, I truly believe most, if not all, were talking about them as college prospects.

 

[Alan]

Memphis Ram forgetting how the mind works:
has anyone really compared Pre-Draft Watkins to NFL Jones? If the have, I've missed it, thus this seems like a bit of a strawman.

I'm not commenting about anyone's post but I have some knowledge about human nature and I doubt seriously that what Julio has done in the pros hasn't colored everyone else's opinion in this debate (except for your Memphis). It's just human nature IMO. It's like telling a jury to forget something that was said in the trial. Most people can't do it even if they tried. That's why lawyers sneek that stuff in even though they know the judge will tell the jury to ignore it. Appeals (or the judge declares a mistrial) by the defense have been won because upper courts have acknowledged this to be true.

 

[ausmurp]

I don't see why. Julio was better than Sammy in almost every aspect as a prospect. It's not even that close, imo.

Wrong. Jones had question marks because he didn't put up great numbers in college, and he had some big drop issues, remember? He silenced the critics at the combine for the most part. Watkins has the numbers AND the combine to back him up. Remember Jones only eclipsed 1000 yds receiving in 2010 - he had 1133 yds and only 7 tds.

As a prospect, before any NFL experience etc etc, Watkins is the better prospect. Go back and look if you don't beleive me.

 

[RamFan503]

Wrong. Jones had question marks because he didn't put up great numbers in college, and he had some big drop issues, remember? He silenced the critics at the combine for the most part. Watkins has the numbers AND the combine to back him up. Remember Jones only eclipsed 1000 yds receiving in 2010 - he had 1133 yds and only 7 tds.

As a prospect, before any NFL experience etc etc, Watkins is the better prospect. Go back and look if you don't beleive me.

This is what I was referring to and RamFan14 answered as well. You can't just look at stats. Otherwise you would have to have the opinion that Sted was far and away a better prospect coming out than Watkins. Something I think we can all agree he was not.

I remember the hands issue being talked about with Jones but he also held the Alabama record in a couple receiving categories. That's a program with some big time history. So comparing stats from a receiver in a pass happy offense to those of a receiver from a run heavy offense, doesn't tell you much.

Yes Jones had some question marks regarding his hands, but so does Watkins though to a slightly lesser degree. Jones clearly had the size/speed edge between the two and played against tougher competition. Jones also was graded out by NFL.com (for what it's worth) at a 8.48 while Sammy grades out at a 7.0. Jones had a better 40 time, bench, vertical, broad jump, shuttle, 3 cone, has longer arms, slightly bigger hands, has a taller/bigger body, etc... In fact, I can't find a tangible that Watkins tops Jones in besides college stats. And we've already discussed the problems with going by stats.

Many assume Watkins will be all that based on stats and "intangibles". I watch the tape and see a very good receiver but not a top 5 of the draft receiver - especially when we have spent so much draft capital on the position of late.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I'm not commenting about anyone's post but I have some knowledge about human nature and I doubt seriously that what Julio has done in the pros hasn't colored everyone else's opinion in this debate (except for your Memphis). It's just human nature IMO. It's like telling a jury to forget something that was said in the trial. Most people can't do it even if they tried. That's why lawyers sneek that stuff in even though they know the judge will tell the jury to ignore it. Appeals (or the judge declares a mistrial) by the defense have been won because upper courts have acknowledged this to be true.

Makes sense. But, it would make more if the same opinions on Jones potential upside weren't expressed even before he was drafted.

 

[Alan]

Memphis Ram with this:
Makes sense.

Thanks.

Memphis Ram and with this:
But, it would make more if the same opinions on Jones potential upside weren't expressed even before he was drafted.

No it wouldn't. All that does is strengthen the argument of those who hold that position. That's why I said I wasn't commenting about anyone's post.

 

[RFIP]

I watch the tape and see a very good receiver but not a top 5 of the draft receiver - especially when we have spent so much draft capital on the position of late.

So you're "watching the tape" with an eye on who we already drafted? And that is an unbiased evaluation?

I, like most, watch his tape and see a super star. And I could give a rats ass less who we drafted in years past.

 

[jrry32]

I'm not commenting about anyone's post but I have some knowledge about human nature and I doubt seriously that what Julio has done in the pros hasn't colored everyone else's opinion in this debate (except for your Memphis). It's just human nature IMO. It's like telling a jury to forget something that was said in the trial. Most people can't do it even if they tried. That's why lawyers sneek that stuff in even though they know the judge will tell the jury to ignore it. Appeals (or the judge declares a mistrial) by the defense have been won because upper courts have acknowledged this to be true.

Julio Jones is an incredible athlete. He's a 6'4 WR with a nice NFL body at 220. Jones has deep speed along with tight end strength. He's a WR who will outmuscle opponents for the ball and the man can really run after the catch. He's an excellent run blocker and his route running really improved this year. Before the year, I was hesitant about Jones because he was there mentally. He seemed to be going through the motions at times and dropped passes due to concentration problems. However, this year he turned things on mentally and finally became the dominant WR I thought he could be. Julio Jones reminds me a lot of a Young TO without the attitude. If he's not there, it will stink and I'd prefer not to think about that situation.

Posted January 28, 2011 (before Julio was drafted...much less in the NFL)

My opinion, while far from infallible, hasn't changed much at all on Julio since his final year in college. I loved the guy as a prospect. And I've loved what I've seen in the NFL. I'm not one to revise history when it comes to my opinions in hindsight.(unless I make a honest error)