Bountygate

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brokeu91

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Michael
Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

X said:
zn said:
Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment

Doug Farrar wants Williams to be forced to watch the Star Wars prequels back to back?
Don't tell me you're a Star Wars purist. Ugh. :sick:
I enjoyed the prequels somewhat. But I am definitely a Star Wars purist. Episodes IV-VI are some of the greatest movies I've ever seen. I-III...meh
 

Selassie I

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

A lifetime ban is just way too severe. Punishment is in order, but not the death penalty.

I'm not sure how many of you played defense back in your playing days. My D coaches demanded that we inflict as much punishment as possible on every play. For example,,, I played cornerback and safety, if the play went to the opposite side of the field from me, I was still expected to put a hit on someone (usually a WR acting as a decoy on the play). If we failed to make some contact on a play,,, he would send your ass directly to the bench.

I never had a coach actually say - "go out and intentionally injure that guy",,, but I have definitely heard the phrase "If you cut the head of the snake, the body with die". Wearing out your opponent physically IS football.


Having cash change hands like that for making big hits makes this shady looking for sure, but Williams wasn't the only one adding cash into the pot,,, players were doing it too. A couple of grand to these guys is just chump change for most of them. It's just guys being guys if you ask me. Take the cash out of it,,, but being praised by coaches for putting a legal beat-down on your opponent will never leave the game.
 

-X-

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Re: Dungy: Titans had a bounty on Peyton Manning

bluecoconuts said:
That scenario doesn't fit. Fining Williams a lot of money is understandable, but suspending him only punishes the Rams. So unless the NFL will compensate the Rams for allowing them to hire him only to slap him with investigations a month later, it's not fair to St. Louis in my opinion.
Exactly right. They knew this was going on, were investigating it for two years, and obviously monitored the hiring of Gregg Williams. If they suspend him, compensation should be forth-coming to the Rams. If they take away picks from the Saints, then give them to the Rams. Or something. That's not a likely scenario, but you get the gist.
 

-X-

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

Selassie I said:
A lifetime ban is just way too severe. Punishment is in order, but not the death penalty.

I'm not sure how many of you played defense back in your playing days. My D coaches demanded that we inflict as much punishment as possible on every play. For example,,, I played cornerback and safety, if the play went to the opposite side of the field from me, I was still expected to put a hit on someone (usually a WR acting as a decoy on the play). If we failed to make some contact on a play,,, he would send your ass directly to the bench.

I never had a coach actually say - "go out and intentionally injure that guy",,, but I have definitely heard the phrase "If you cut the head of the snake, the body with die". Wearing out your opponent physically IS football.


Having cash change hands like that for making big hits makes this shady looking for sure, but Williams wasn't the only one adding cash into the pot,,, players were doing it too. A couple of grand to these guys is just chump change for most of them. It's just guys being guys if you ask me. Take the cash out of it,,, but being praised by coaches for putting a legal beat-down on your opponent will never leave the game.
Yeah, true. Our D coach was like that too. He used to say he wanted to see helmets roll out there, and if there was a head in it at the time..... even better. Sadistic dude, but he wasn't a proponent of going after helmets or knees, or anything like that. He just wanted bone-jarring shots that sent players backwards. Hit the ball carrier hard enough to make his mama cry. And FFS he loved that Oklahoma drill (which he simply called "man-up-time").
 

-X-

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Matt Bowen on GW while both were with the Redskins.

Bounties part of game across the NFL

It might not be right or ethical, but if winning means crossing a line, you do it

Prices were set on Saturday nights in the team hotel.

In a makeshift meeting room, with the whisper of evening traffic pouring in from the Beltway, we laid our bounties on opposing players. We targeted big names, our sights set on taking them out of the game.

Price tags started low during the regular season — a couple hundred bucks for going after the quarterback hard or taking a running back out below the knees. Chop him down and give a quick smile when you got back to the huddle. You just got a bonus.

The pot was collected throughout the season through fines. Show up late? Ding. Blow an assignment during practice? Again. Walk on the field with your chinstrap unbuckled. Again. Break the rules, you gave to the bank.

The cash was kept stashed away at the team facility, in safe hands. After coaches reviewed Sunday's film, we paid it back out. Our accountability, governed by our accounting.

That's right. We got paid for big hits, clean hits by the rule book.

Money came in for more than watching a guy leave the field. We earned extra for interceptions, sacks and forced fumbles. If the till wasn't paid out, we just rolled it over.

Money jumped in the playoffs. A bigger stage equaled more coin. Instead of a few hundred dollars, now you got a thousand, maybe more, depending on the player.

That's the truth. I can't sugarcoat this. It was a system we all bought into.

I ate it up.

It's hard not to, not when you're playing for a coach like Gregg Williams, my defensive coordinator while I was with the Washington Redskins.

Williams is an excellent motivator. You do what he wants: play tough, push the envelope and carry a swagger that every opponent sees on tape. When you lined up against us, you knew we were coming after you. It was our gig, our plan, our way to motivate, to extra-motivate.

I wanted to be That Guy for him, playing the game with an attitude opposing players absolutely feared. If that meant playing through the whistle or going low on a tackle, I did it.

I don't regret any part of it. I can't. Williams is the best coach I ever played for in my years in the NFL, a true teacher who developed me as a player. I believed in him. I still do. That will never change.

Your career exists in a short window, one that starts closing the moment it opens. If making a play to impress a coach or win a game pushes that window up an inch before it slams back down on your fingers, then you do what has to be done.

Some day, when my three sons grow up, I will make clear to them that this league isn't for everyone. No doubt, it can be downright disgusting living by a win-at-all-costs mentality. It's a fundamental part of the NFL's culture that isn't talked about outside of team facilities.

I'm not saying it's right. Or ethical. But the NFL isn't little league football with neighborhood dads playing head coach. This is the business of winning. If that means stepping over some line, you do it.

Bounties, cheap shots, whatever you want to call them, they are a part of this game. It is an ugly tradition that was exposed Friday with Williams front and center from his time coaching the defense in New Orleans. But don't peg this on him alone. You will find it in plenty of NFL cities.

Win or else. That's the drill.

Special contributor Matt Bowen, who played at Glenbard West and Iowa, spent seven seasons in the NFL as a strong safety. You also can find his work at nationalfootballpost.com

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... 992.column
 

bluecoconuts

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

In hockey my coach used to tell us to try to put guys through the glass.

In football the biggest reason why I got a starting gig was because I could hit so hard and was really fast from playing hockey, so he'd just send me on blindside blitzes on the QB to try to jar him, or knock him out of the game. I didn't get paid or anything, but it was always just part of it. Kind of a "make him think twice next time." sort of thing.


Oh man that reminds me when I was playing against one of our rivals. I was best friend's with a girl who went to that school and she was dating the QB, who was a big shit talker. So I told her before the game "First play, I'm coming on a blitz, tell him to be ready." and she goes "Haha, you wont get him. The only person to sacks him is ME!"..... So the very first play of the game I came around and got him right in the back, knocked the wind out of him, he fumbled, he cried a little when he hobbled to the bench, and he never returned to the game. He wasn't seriously hurt or anything but he just didn't want to go back out there. Especially since their line was not holding up and we were beating up on their backup and 3rd string guy (they rotated them) pretty good.... Anyway right after I hit my friend's boyfriend I stood up and pointed to her in the stands.. She was so pissed, didn't talk to me for a week after that. Man that was fun, I wish I could go back to playing again.
 

Angry Ram

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Re: Gregg Williams.... Bounty Hunter?

interference said:
X said:
interference said:
X said:
Interesting tweet from Trey Wingo just now:

@wingoz
Beyond the health and safety issues of what the Saints did, paying players beyond their contracts is a violation of the Salary Cap.
Jesus christ, what does the NFL think its running, the Kremlin? Where does the control over contracted employee's lives end? This is getting ridiculous, and I think it would be wise for the players association to raise a big middle finger to Goodell if he tries to control how players/coaches spend their money.
Well, think about it. Where do you draw the line? What if, with a wink and a nod, you sign a free agent that another team was willing to pay the same money for, but you throw a little extra coin his way under the table to tip the scales? A "hidden incentive contract", if you will. If you let that go unchecked, then suddenly the Steinbrenners of the NFL get all the good free agents.
And where do we draw the line of big brother? At what point is oversight an infringement?

JdashSTL said:
RamFan503 said:
JdashSTL said:
RamFan503 said:
If he paid for QB hits and the like - I'm not sure how bad that should be viewed. It is a constant stat they pull up on the screen. If he was paying for an injury, I don't want him here or in the league. I really don't give a shyte if it goes on all the time. Pretty simple in my eyes. Fire his ass if he paid to have players injured.

Knowing what we know now about concussions and how the league has taken extra precautions for it, how can people be ok with players payed to knock opponents out of the game? Cant that be looked at as "intent to injure?"

I'm not talking about trying to knock a player out of a game - quite the contrary. But in the NFL, QB hits are a stat just like hurries. For clarification, I'm not talking about hits after the play either. But this is a rough game and a big part of it is getting into the most important player's brain. Most of the time, that is the QB.

So your talking about teams just going after the QB to get in his head? speed up his internal clock? Thats normal. The 2 games that will be brought up the most are the Cardinals and Viking game during the Saints playoff run. I watched the Vikings game with my dad, hes a huge Vikings fan, he was shocked at the no-calls on Favre. It still bugs him to this day. The hits themselves didnt bother him, it was clear the Saints wanted to beat him up. Looking back on it now, I guess Bobby McCray made some extra cash after that SB run for the hits to Favre and Warner.
Anyone know where there are some good video highlights of those playoff games during the Saints run? I'd like to see those hits again.

By the way, why were the refs looking the other way during that run? Was the NFL Marketing machine pushing for a post-katrina Saints SB victory perhaps? The hypocrocy of the NFL is astounding.

Of course! NFL knows America loves a good sap story and what better team to deliver all the sap than the Saints.

Everyone wanted Rodgers/Brees vs. Brady this year. In the end, they didn't get either.
 

Stranger

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Re: Matt Bowen on GW while both were with the Redskins.

Now I'm starting to wonder if this story, of player bounties, was about to leak out anyway, so the league office had to get out in front of it, and control it, to maintain the appearance of legitimacy. If this practice is indeed league wide, and has been going on for an extended period, then there is no way league execs have not known about it for a long long time.

So, why release the story now, and WHY target Gregg Williams? Hmmm. Perhaps Gregg pissed off a few too many people, and what we're seeing right now is a little persanal "payback".
 

Anonymous

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

Selassie I said:
A lifetime ban is just way too severe. Punishment is in order, but not the death penalty.

I'm not sure how many of you played defense back in your playing days. My D coaches demanded that we inflict as much punishment as possible on every play. For example,,, I played cornerback and safety, if the play went to the opposite side of the field from me, I was still expected to put a hit on someone (usually a WR acting as a decoy on the play). If we failed to make some contact on a play,,, he would send your ass directly to the bench.

I never had a coach actually say - "go out and intentionally injure that guy",,, but I have definitely heard the phrase "If you cut the head of the snake, the body with die". Wearing out your opponent physically IS football.


Having cash change hands like that for making big hits makes this shady looking for sure, but Williams wasn't the only one adding cash into the pot,,, players were doing it too. A couple of grand to these guys is just chump change for most of them. It's just guys being guys if you ask me. Take the cash out of it,,, but being praised by coaches for putting a legal beat-down on your opponent will never leave the game.

None of that is the issue though.

The league has rules against bounties. They violate both the league constitution & by-laws AND the CBA.

We can really honestly stop all this soul-searching. Or, do it if you want, but, strictly speaking, it's off-topic. (Though as long as we're off-topic :cool: I agree with the people that say that promoting cheap-shot artists who deliberately go for injuries violates the spirit of the sport. We can call that the Rodney Harrison rule.)

Anyway. The league has a rule. Bounties are illegal. They remind teams of this every season. Williams violated the rule. Honestly, that's it. That's the issue.
 

bluecoconuts

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

I don't think any of us are denying that he broke a rule. We all know that. It's just like when you speed, you know you're breaking the law, rules are rules.

We're debating how harsh the punishment should be. I think that the NFL, in order of fairness should give him a very large fine. If he was with the Saints, then a suspension would be more than fair, but the fact is he was under investigation, and the NFL allowed another team to hire him only to come out a month later.

So if they suspend him, they screw over the Rams and as an innocent party, that's not fair to St. Louis. Unless the NFL told the Rams "we're going to nail him for bounties in March so don't hire him." and the Rams went "Nah, screw you, we'll do it anyway." it's not fair for St. Louis to be the one who suffers. Williams should be punished, yes. But punishing the Rams is kind of messed up. Which is why a fine (and I'm not talking like a 50,000 dollar fine, make it a really big one) works for me.



Either way, this is a lot of drama, and I don't like it. I liked being more or less drama free for the past few years.
 

-X-

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

zn said:
Selassie I said:
A lifetime ban is just way too severe. Punishment is in order, but not the death penalty.

I'm not sure how many of you played defense back in your playing days. My D coaches demanded that we inflict as much punishment as possible on every play. For example,,, I played cornerback and safety, if the play went to the opposite side of the field from me, I was still expected to put a hit on someone (usually a WR acting as a decoy on the play). If we failed to make some contact on a play,,, he would send your ass directly to the bench.

I never had a coach actually say - "go out and intentionally injure that guy",,, but I have definitely heard the phrase "If you cut the head of the snake, the body with die". Wearing out your opponent physically IS football.


Having cash change hands like that for making big hits makes this shady looking for sure, but Williams wasn't the only one adding cash into the pot,,, players were doing it too. A couple of grand to these guys is just chump change for most of them. It's just guys being guys if you ask me. Take the cash out of it,,, but being praised by coaches for putting a legal beat-down on your opponent will never leave the game.
None of that is the issue though.

The league has rules against bounties. They violate both the league constitution & by-laws AND the CBA.

We can really honestly stop all this soul-searching. Or, do it if you want, but, strictly speaking, it's off-topic. (Though as long as we're off-topic :cool: I agree with the people that say that promoting cheap-shot artists who deliberately go for injuries violates the spirit of the sport. We can call that the Rodney Harrison rule.)

Anyway. The league has a rule. Bounties are illegal. They remind teams of this every season. Williams violated the rule. Honestly, that's it. That's the issue.
Well, what some of us are talking about relative to our playing days isn't the LEGALITY of the issue, but it still speaks to the issue. Otherwise the headlines would read, "Williams broke an NFL rule, Commissioner Goodell looking into it." Instead, we get "Bounty" as the headline, and a 50,000 page report on the specifics. And it's certainly not off-topic to discuss one aspect of it, the other, or both. It's all intertwined.

Think about the phrase, "$1000.00 for a cart-off." Think this is only about breaking rules after reading that? I don't.
 

Yamahopper

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

bluecoconuts said:
I don't think any of us are denying that he broke a rule. We all know that. It's just like when you speed, you know you're breaking the law, rules are rules.

We're debating how harsh the punishment should be. I think that the NFL, in order of fairness should give him a very large fine. If he was with the Saints, then a suspension would be more than fair, but the fact is he was under investigation, and the NFL allowed another team to hire him only to come out a month later.

So if they suspend him, they screw over the Rams and as an innocent party, that's not fair to St. Louis. Unless the NFL told the Rams "we're going to nail him for bounties in March so don't hire him." and the Rams went "Nah, screw you, we'll do it anyway." it's not fair for St. Louis to be the one who suffers. Williams should be punished, yes. But punishing the Rams is kind of messed up. Which is why a fine (and I'm not talking like a 50,000 dollar fine, make it a really big one) works for me.



Either way, this is a lot of drama, and I don't like it. I liked being more or less drama free for the past few years.

Yeah suspending him would screw the Rams over. If they do they do and Fisher can get someone else in here stat and get the program back on track. It's not like this came out in training camp then he gets suspended.

But what ever they do to Williams they should do to the Saints HC. He was in charge of Williams and had to know what was going on. Either he approved or turned his back on it....Which is really the same thing. He could have fired Williams on the spot but he didn't. I don't need any smoke blown up my arse from the NFL telling me the HC didn't know. BS, the HC knows everything.
How about the players that participated in bounty program? Suspend them too?

None of that will happen to the Saints. They will get a fine and maybe lose a couple draft picks but that's about it.
The NFL loves the Saints and NO. and all that post Katrina success story stuff. They don't want them to go back to the years of 3-13 doormats of the league.

They will just throw Williams under the bus and if the Rams get under the tread a little so be it. The NFL will just rationalize it by thinking the Rams and their fans are used to life at the bottom of the food chain after the last few years so they won't mind.

And the Saints were the only team doing this? Yeah right.
 

ramsince62

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

>> it's not fair for St. Louis to be the one who suffers.<<

Tell that to the 2010 and 2011 USC teams that were prevented from competing for the conference title and post season bowl games because of the actions by one player (Bush) who was no longer on the team.

But aside from that, the question (to me) remains whether or not this franchise with it's new management including Fisher, exhibits the character and qualities necessary to build a winning football team that we can all be proud of. Or whether it's about winning at all/any cost, including the sacrifice of player careers.

We all see the manipulation and deceit by our political leaders, is professional sport headed in the same direction? Professional football has become America's favorite sport, going forward, how will it be remembered?
 

superfan24

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Re: Dungy: Titans had a bounty on Peyton Manning

Heard John Clayton say today that the punishment will be severely worse than what spygate got :roll:
don't understand that at all. Cheaters always get off easy :grr:
 

Ramhusker

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

Yamahopper said:
bluecoconuts said:
I don't think any of us are denying that he broke a rule. We all know that. It's just like when you speed, you know you're breaking the law, rules are rules.

We're debating how harsh the punishment should be. I think that the NFL, in order of fairness should give him a very large fine. If he was with the Saints, then a suspension would be more than fair, but the fact is he was under investigation, and the NFL allowed another team to hire him only to come out a month later.

So if they suspend him, they screw over the Rams and as an innocent party, that's not fair to St. Louis. Unless the NFL told the Rams "we're going to nail him for bounties in March so don't hire him." and the Rams went "Nah, screw you, we'll do it anyway." it's not fair for St. Louis to be the one who suffers. Williams should be punished, yes. But punishing the Rams is kind of messed up. Which is why a fine (and I'm not talking like a 50,000 dollar fine, make it a really big one) works for me.



Either way, this is a lot of drama, and I don't like it. I liked being more or less drama free for the past few years.

Yeah suspending him would screw the Rams over. If they do they do and Fisher can get someone else in here stat and get the program back on track. It's not like this came out in training camp then he gets suspended.

But what ever they do to Williams they should do to the Saints HC. He was in charge of Williams and had to know what was going on. Either he approved or turned his back on it....Which is really the same thing. He could have fired Williams on the spot but he didn't. I don't need any smoke blown up my arse from the NFL telling me the HC didn't know. BS, the HC knows everything.
How about the players that participated in bounty program? Suspend them too?

None of that will happen to the Saints. They will get a fine and maybe lose a couple draft picks but that's about it.
The NFL loves the Saints and NO. and all that post Katrina success story stuff. They don't want them to go back to the years of 3-13 doormats of the league.

They will just throw Williams under the bus and if the Rams get under the tread a little so be it. The NFL will just rationalize it by thinking the Rams and their fans are used to life at the bottom of the food chain after the last few years so they won't mind.

And the Saints were the only team doing this? Yeah right.

Thank you! My take exactly. This is how it will go down, I'm sure.
 

quebecramfan

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Re: Dungy: Titans had a bounty on Peyton Manning

Man oh man.... seems like the Rams can never have a break.... As soon as things start to look good we get this pile of sh** thrown on our lawn. I agree that using money is not the right thing to do but come on.... how many NFL coaches tell their players to hit the opponent as hard as they can? You take the money out of it (1000$ for a cart-off is pocket change for most of these guys) and pretty much every team tell their players the same thing. I just hope he wasn't encouraging headshots and the like.

Having played football and rugby, I was told in high school that every time I hit a guy, make sure he would think twice about coming my way again.... never got any money for it but the message was clear.

I think what the NFL is doing is that they need to make an example out of somebody. I cannot believe that they would naive enough to think this sorta thing only happened on the saints team. It is unfortunate for us that they will be using Williams as their example. I just hope the Rams won't be punished too harshly for this.
 

Yamahopper

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Re: Dungy: Titans had a bounty on Peyton Manning

interference said:
bluecoconuts said:
Awesome. I swear if I didn't know better I'd say the NFL has it out for the Rams.
Ever since Georgia moved the Rams to St Louis, the NFL has been pissed at the franchise.

This just totally sucks. Just as the good news about RGIII and possible awesome trade opportunities start spreading the airwaves, we have this ugly interruption. We just can't get a break. Damn this is hard to take.

I can see the headlines now " Rams DC Williams suspended for life and Rams forfeit the 2nd pick in the draft for the bounty program the Saints had".
 

Stranger

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Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.

zn said:
Selassie I said:
A lifetime ban is just way too severe. Punishment is in order, but not the death penalty.

I'm not sure how many of you played defense back in your playing days. My D coaches demanded that we inflict as much punishment as possible on every play. For example,,, I played cornerback and safety, if the play went to the opposite side of the field from me, I was still expected to put a hit on someone (usually a WR acting as a decoy on the play). If we failed to make some contact on a play,,, he would send your ass directly to the bench.

I never had a coach actually say - "go out and intentionally injure that guy",,, but I have definitely heard the phrase "If you cut the head of the snake, the body with die". Wearing out your opponent physically IS football.


Having cash change hands like that for making big hits makes this shady looking for sure, but Williams wasn't the only one adding cash into the pot,,, players were doing it too. A couple of grand to these guys is just chump change for most of them. It's just guys being guys if you ask me. Take the cash out of it,,, but being praised by coaches for putting a legal beat-down on your opponent will never leave the game.

None of that is the issue though.

The league has rules against bounties. They violate both the league constitution & by-laws AND the CBA.

We can really honestly stop all this soul-searching. Or, do it if you want, but, strictly speaking, it's off-topic. (Though as long as we're off-topic :cool: I agree with the people that say that promoting cheap-shot artists who deliberately go for injuries violates the spirit of the sport. We can call that the Rodney Harrison rule.)

Anyway. The league has a rule. Bounties are illegal. They remind teams of this every season. Williams violated the rule. Honestly, that's it. That's the issue.
Sounds to me like breach of this rule has been league-wide and has been going on for quite some time. So, why target Gregg Williams, and why now?
 

Stranger

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Re: Dungy: Titans had a bounty on Peyton Manning

Yamahopper said:
interference said:
bluecoconuts said:
Awesome. I swear if I didn't know better I'd say the NFL has it out for the Rams.
Ever since Georgia moved the Rams to St Louis, the NFL has been pissed at the franchise.

This just totally sucks. Just as the good news about RGIII and possible awesome trade opportunities start spreading the airwaves, we have this ugly interruption. We just can't get a break. Damn this is hard to take.

I can see the headlines now " Rams DC Williams suspended for life and Rams forfeit the 2nd pick in the draft for the bounty program the Saints had".
Hmmm, I wonder if Spags going to NO, as their new DC, had anything to do with this issue being pressed, and being pressed NOW? In wild speculation mode now, but could Spags have found out about the bounty practice in NO and started talking, telling too many people about it, forcing the NFL execs to act or have egg on their face?
 

-X-

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Re: Dungy: Titans had a bounty on Peyton Manning

interference said:
Yamahopper said:
interference said:
bluecoconuts said:
Awesome. I swear if I didn't know better I'd say the NFL has it out for the Rams.
Ever since Georgia moved the Rams to St Louis, the NFL has been pissed at the franchise.

This just totally sucks. Just as the good news about RGIII and possible awesome trade opportunities start spreading the airwaves, we have this ugly interruption. We just can't get a break. Damn this is hard to take.

I can see the headlines now " Rams DC Williams suspended for life and Rams forfeit the 2nd pick in the draft for the bounty program the Saints had".
Hmmm, I wonder if Spags going to NO, as their new DC, had anything to do with this issue being pressed, and being pressed NOW? In wild speculation mode now, but could Spags have found out about the bounty practice in NO and started talking, telling too many people about it, forcing the NFL execs to act or have egg on their face?
Doubt it. Why would Spags willingly walk into that kind of situation? They could lose draft picks now.