X said:
RamFan503 said:
If you are speeding through a construction zone, the fines double. Do you think it is because of the basic speed rule or because you are potentially endangering peoples' lives?
Wow. Nice analogy. That really cuts to the heart of the issue.
I don;t think it does.
In part because people seem to be arguing with a case no one made. People seem to be arguing with someone who said that this is entirely about a narrow rule violation. But no one did argue that.
To straighten all this out you will need to patiently read all of this.
Basically, I see it this way. Without a bounty system run by Saints coaches or a bounty rule then there is nothing the league could or can do about the Vikes/Saints playoff game except fine a player or 2 for an illegal hit.
With the bounty rule, and with the Saints coaches guilty of violating it, you have the combined circumstances of coaches violating league rules AND doing so in the name of injuries. Without that there is no issue at all.
Just depends on what you mean by "bounty rule issue" and for me that means several things, all equally and all at once:
Now why are league rules against non-contractual rewards, including bounties, important.
1. Coaches can't violate rules. Not if you expect players to respect them. THIS ALONE IS SUFFICIENT REASON FOR THE LEAGUE TO DO WHAT IT IS DOING. No other explanation or justification is needed. That's it right there.
2. Non-contractual rewards of any kind, including bounties obviously, undermine the cap. And that way lies madness. Imagine a situation where an unscrupulous deep-pocketed owner attracts players with a huge award system.
3. Beyond rewards themselves, bounties are bad because they violate the spirit and integrity of the game. And is therefore bad for the image of football. You do not want a situation where it is known that coaches pay under the table to injure opposing players. That's not football, that's Rollerball. And I was a linebacker in high school and loved me some hits. This has nothing to do with hitting. It turns a game into something else...something worse. We KNOW players go after players, and league rules about unnecessary roughness and late hits and facemasks and illegal blocks deal with that. BUT it is another thing entirely when coaches reward players with money for hurting other players (and again, it doesn't matter if no one is ever injured--even OFFERING A BOUNTY violates both league rules and the spirit of the game.)
Now...imagine if there WEREN'T the new player safety drive. Do you honestly think if there weren;t, the league would ignore signs that a team had a coach sponsored non-contract rewards system that including rewards for injuries?
You don't NEED the safety issue to address the bounty issue--the bounty issue is outrageous enough in its own right.
ALSO, I have spent a lot of time arguing with 2 types.
1. Type 1 says that the severity of the punishment should depend on whether the Saints really did have a lot of illegal hits. That's Bernie, for one. No, in fact, you don't even need the hits for the bounties to be illegal. So that argument on Bernie's part misses the point.
2. Type 2 says that the commish is doing this to WMs. to water down the game. No he isn't. Hits are still hits. Illegal hits are still illegal hits and they get flagged and fined. Above and beyond and independent of that, a bounty system is completely intolerable in its own right--and you don't have to dread them watering down the game just because they go after a coach who sponsored bounties.
