Bonsignore: Rams need to get the Watkins nonsense squashed ASAP

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Rmfnlt

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Watkins is elite what he did in Buffalo was no fluke.
Let's take a look at what he did in BUF... I'm not that impressed.
2014: 128 targets, 68 receptions (caught 53%), 982 yards
2015: 96 targets, 60 receptions (62%), 1,047 yards
2016: 52 targets, 28 receptions (54%), 430 yards

Now, let's look at a true elite receiver (Beckham):
2014: 130/91 (70%)/1,305
2015: 158/96 (61%)/1,450
2016: 169/101 (60%)/1,367

Look at Brown... or Jones... or a lot of the others and I'd suggest Watkins is not an "elite" WR.

Now, the wild card in all of it is the offense and system each one works in... the QB, etc. Duly noted.

And I get it that BUF is not known as an offensive juggernaut, but I'd classify his numbers as "above average", not "elite". IMO, he can be shut down... truly elite ones cannot.

Yet, he acted like he was "elite" in BUF and is making some rumblings here.

He's good... don't get me wrong... but he may have a slightly elevated opinion of himself vs. his productivity.

Just give me a lunch pail WR who produces like a Issac Bruce and doesn't complain.
He can be on my team...
Watkins? Let's see how this pans out.
 

dieterbrock

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Rams made the deal with the caveat that if they did not keep Watkins they would be awarded a compensatory selection when he signs with another team, which could be a 4th so a 2nd for a 4th & a 6th.
They have that agreement with Buffalo? I didnt realize that, that's a great deal!
 

Dxmissile

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Let's take a look at what he did in BUF... I'm not that impressed.
2014: 128 targets, 68 receptions (caught 53%), 982 yards
2015: 96 targets, 60 receptions (62%), 1,047 yards
2016: 52 targets, 28 receptions (54%), 430 yards

Now, let's look at a true elite receiver (Beckham):
2014: 130/91 (70%)/1,305
2015: 158/96 (61%)/1,450
2016: 169/101 (60%)/1,367

Look at Brown... or Jones... or a lot of the others and I'd suggest Watkins is not an "elite" WR.

Now, the wild card in all of it is the offense and system each one works in... the QB, etc. Duly noted.

And I get it that BUF is not known as an offensive juggernaut, but I'd classify his numbers as "above average", not "elite". IMO, he can be shut down... truly elite ones cannot.

Yet, he acted like he was "elite" in BUF and is making some rumblings here.

He's good... don't get me wrong... but he may have a slightly elevated opinion of himself vs. his productivity.

Just give me a lunch pail WR who produces like a Issac Bruce and doesn't complain.
He can be on my team...
Watkins? Let's see how this pans out.

Beckham has yet to see less than 130 targets in a season Watkins has never seen 130 targets yet alone play with a Super Bowl winning Qb who throws the ball. So yes to me Watkins is elite the type of catches he makes his route running ability his ability to run after the catch is all elite his numbers might not be elite but that’s on system on QB not him. Look at how good Woods has looked outside of Buffalo offense
 

fearsomefour

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Watkins is elite what he did in Buffalo was no fluke. The difference is they gave him the ball Often and early because that’s what you do when you have a talent at WR like him. He out battles anyone for the ball in the air. And who’s to say that Kupp and the rest of the gang would be this productive without Watkins.

This offense is at a crossroads. If McVay can’t stay with the running game and continue to let Goff pass the ball 40 times a game it’s going to be a very long season. We have to use the weapons we do have so that the other guys can continue to have success because pretty soon the defense is going to figure out that McVay likes the crossing route to woods and Kupp the seam routes with TE and passes to the flat
Haven't seen it from Watkins....didn't watch much of Buffalo. I agree about passing 40 + times a game. Usually leads to losses for any team that's not NE. Balance is always the key.
I think McVay could see the matchups he wanted and they just weren't happening vs Seattle. He had a bit of a Martz-ian meltdown.
Couldn't see what was there in front of him. Got away from the run almost totally. We will see. Jacksonville's passing D is ranked third or something like that. Gonna need to mix it up vs them as well.
 

fearsomefour

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I saw Watkins frustration on that 3-10 play that went to brown he was open in the middle of the end zone like completely open. The thing is though the play was never designed to go that way I think Goff has a couple reads with Woods and Kupp if they wasn’t open to check it down. We got the first down but missed a opportunity for a touchdown if he looks to Watkins
I don't know what it is about WR. So many are such Dbags. Listen the QB can't do what you do and the WR sure as hell cant do what the QB does. Half the time when the WR is running open that is dictated by the D and not some great thing they did.
I'm not jumping on the Watkins s lack of effort thing. Way too hard to judge that from a far without knowing what the call was, what the progressions are on a play, what the sight adjustments were. Like when so many bashed on Quick in the Giants game last year giving up on that pic in the endzone. Obvious to anyone with eyes that he missed (somehow) the obvious adjustment Keenum gave him. So, things are not what they may appear by seeing one second of the end of a play on tv.
If Watkins did put out a lack of effort I would be shopping him today. He isent that good. No Fing WR is that good. That said, I don't think that's the case. He will get more balls coming his way.
 

99Balloons

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Season is still a long ways to go. It may have been the rapport between Goff and Watkins because Watkins came to the Rams late in the pre-season and he needs to develop the little nuances to get in the flow with his QB. But at the end of the seaon and Watkins is not a major factor, then Watkins and the Rams can go their separate ways.
 

Rmfnlt

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Beckham has yet to see less than 130 targets in a season Watkins has never seen 130 targets yet alone play with a Super Bowl winning Qb who throws the ball. So yes to me Watkins is elite the type of catches he makes his route running ability his ability to run after the catch is all elite his numbers might not be elite but that’s on system on QB not him. Look at how good Woods has looked outside of Buffalo offense
Well, based on actual production, Watkins IMO, is not elite.

Frankly, I don't even know why we're having this discussion... we're back to some term coined by ESPN or some other crackpot media outlet... "Elite WR".

Now, "elite" means "type of catches he makes his route running ability his ability to run after the catch"? OK, quantify that and get back to me.

His "numbers", as compared to his peers, is not "elite" (extenuating circumstances previously noted nothwithstanding).
 

den-the-coach

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
They have that agreement with Buffalo? I didnt realize that, that's a great deal!

They did not have that agreement with Buffalo, but the Rams made the deal factoring they would get some type of compensatory pick as well, if they did not resign him.
 

Ram65

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I'll post this again,

Get Watkins some early targets. He is a big, strong sure handed WR. Script some plays for him early. He has turned short passes into big gains. A quick slant, down and out and even a smoke screen pass. He can bust one or just get a nice gain. The 6-8 yard down and out against the Whiners netted 11-13 yards. If McVay and Snead made this deal to use him as a decoy it is a waste of talent and just plain crazy. I know McVay has the take what they give mentality. Sometimes you just have to make a statement that helps everyone later in the game. McVay can figure out a way to Watkins the ball without forcing it. Get him in the game. Set up the deep pass early. I really like Robert Woods who has only caught 17 of 30 targets. Can't find Watkins numbers because they haven' thrown it to him enough.
 

LACHAMP46

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It is clear that other less hyped WRs will have success in McVays system.
We are approaching a serious situation with the red zone....probably cost us these 2 games.

Watkins arguably cost the Rams the Seattle game.
You can't be serious? It wasn't even assured to be caught, let alone score....
Let's take a look at what he did in BUF... I'm not that impressed.
2014: 128 targets, 68 receptions (caught 53%), 982 yards
2015: 96 targets, 60 receptions (62%), 1,047 yards
2016: 52 targets, 28 receptions (54%), 430 yards

Now, let's look at a true elite receiver (Beckham):
2014: 130/91 (70%)/1,305
2015: 158/96 (61%)/1,450
2016: 169/101 (60%)/1,367
Different QB's....different systems.....Sammy has nice numbers for playing in Buffalo....Odell plays for a perennial playoff contender.
His "numbers", as compared to his peers, is not "elite" (extenuating circumstances previously noted nothwithstanding).
Curious...if Sammy isn't the best wr on this team, who, IN YOUR OPINION, is???

simple solution...and Vinny is spot on...get your playmakers the damn ball...same with Gurley....Watkins & Gurley are the Rams best offensive players....until Higbee or Everret step up....this shouldn't be an issue 5 weeks into the season.

And players are OPEN, even when it looks like they're not....just like some are COVERED, even when it appears they are not....it all depends on who's throwing the ball.

Losing winnable games is how you miss the playoffs...we only have 4 fuckups left....
 

Ramrasta

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Watkins asked Holt to look at film and tell him what's wrong, hopefully Holt reaches out and gives him some good advice, I wouldn't be surprised if he does, he is still invested in the Rams.

We'll get it worked out, and we'll get him the ball. Too much talent not to.

Doesn't take the eyes of a former elite WR to see what's wrong here. Sammy shouldn't run lazy routes and needs to get his head around to look for the pass.

Basically, he needs to not take plays off.
 

Rmfnlt

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Different QB's....different systems.....Sammy has nice numbers for playing in Buffalo....Odell plays for a perennial playoff contender.
I acknowledged that... but still... seriously, why are we trying to put Watkins into cxome classification that has never been defined anyway? Elite... whatever.

Curious...if Sammy isn't the best wr on this team, who, IN YOUR OPINION, is???
I think you misunderstood me... wasn't comparing him the what's on the Rams roster... was comparing him to (as best I can tell because, again, it's not defined anywhere) so-called-Elite WRs.

He doesn't line up... Rams offense (save last week) was extremely productive. Yet, he only had one good game.

I'll go out on a limb and say... if the Rams offense ends the season in the top 8, Watkins will not be anywhere near other so-called-Elite WRs.

"Losing winnable games is how you miss the playoffs...we only have 4 fuckups left...."
I agree!
 

Boston Ram

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You can't be serious? It wasn't even assured to be caught, let alone score....

I know....because he quit on the play lol. But I disagree, if the finished the route and was looking the right way he had a TD, the ball landed a couple of yards from him. He had his man beat and there was no help.
 

dieterbrock

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They did not have that agreement with Buffalo, but the Rams made the deal factoring they would get some type of compensatory pick as well, if they did not resign him.
Oh, that. You had my hopes up that we were guaranteed something from Buffalo. Rams are gonna lose Tru and be flush with cap $$$, I would doubt they'll get any comp picks because they will likely be able to sign 2-3 studs of their own
 

yrba1

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Not too worried about Watkins yet, he's still learning the playbook and scratching the surface of how McVay's system works. Will say though his effort needs improvement but my hopes are that it's just second guessing where to go on the routes.
 

Rmfnlt

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Not too worried about Watkins yet, he's still learning the playbook and scratching the surface of how McVay's system works. Will say though his effort needs improvement but my hopes are that it's just second guessing where to go on the routes.
It’s been more than two months since the Rams traded for Watkins. That’s more than enough time to get him up to speed with the offense.

I tend to agree with Bonsignore here... two months for a third year player ought to be enough IMO.
 

Merlin

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1 catch in 2 games yeah I get the frustration.

I don't. He was brought in to be a deep threat and play a role. Dude got caught loafing a couple times, and it needs to be corrected. There is nothing good for him down the road in looking like he's diva, with free agency pending. Keep your chin up, play hard, don't make it about you. We not me.

No, we all saw watkins effort. Watkins was sending a message.

I suspect that's a bit stronger than reality. He was loafing and didn't think Goff would get to him in the play progression a couple times, basically taking plays off and a lot of wideouts and skill guys do that. I don't think he's trying to send messages, just got caught by a QB who got to him on reads he was slackin.

Now the comment in social media he needs to watch. But he didn't go out and complain, it was moreso him agreeing with some other comments. Again don't make it about you. You know this offense is predicated on roles, you have one season here before you hit FA and some team throws money at you.

Lastly I'll say this too, that Watkins does have a history of injury. So I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team that pays him huge money and then expects him to be a guy who catches a hundred balls. That way lies disappointment IMO. The irony is this type of offense might be ideal for him, in terms of keeping him fresh and healthy.
 

Ram65

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I acknowledged that... but still... seriously, why are we trying to put Watkins into cxome classification that has never been defined anyway? Elite... whatever.

I think you misunderstood me... wasn't comparing him the what's on the Rams roster... was comparing him to (as best I can tell because, again, it's not defined anywhere) so-called-Elite WRs.

Who is claiming Sammy Watkins is an "elite" wide receiver besides Dxmissle?

Watkins is elite what he did in Buffalo was no fluke.

I would think most Rams fans and even the Rams coaches would want to find out what they have in Watkins. Unless you have looked at tape which I don't think you have it is impossible to fully evaluate him. What we know is he was drafted #5 in by Buffalo in 2014. He had success in Buffalo all things considered. Part of his draft writeup.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/sammy-watkins?id=2543457

OVERVIEW

Brother, Jaylen, played cornerback at Florida (2010-13). Sammy was an elite recruit out of Florida, where he also won the AA state title in the 200 meters and finished second in the 100 meters.

ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS
Exceptional football playing speed -- can flat out fly and take the top off a defense. Has world-class track speed. Extends outside his frame and plucks the ball. Outstanding body control and agility. Tracks the ball well over his shoulder and is a natural hands-catcher who can make an average quarterback look good. Consistently turns 2-yard gains into 15-yard chunks -- possesses big-time play making ability and is very effective creating in the open field on bubble screens and quick-hitting short/lateral tosses. Superb run-after-the-catch ability. Good burst out of his cuts to separate. Has game-breaking return ability and is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Has a strong support structure (mother moved to Clemson following Wakins' 2012 drug arrest and he has steered clear of any trouble). Will be a 21-year-old rookie.................................................

  • 6'1"HEIGHT
  • 32"ARM LENGTH
  • 211LBS.WEIGHT
  • 9 5/8"HANDS
................................................................................................................................
Very Good size and speed. The Rams and McVay should not pigeon hole Watkins as just a deep threat. It's clear he can be a thread anywhere on the field. Giving up on routes is terrible. Gave Britt a hard time for that. It's not too late to get this right. Yes Watkins has to give 100% effort all the time. I think McVay and the Rams have to give Watkins more of a chance to make plays. He is a play maker but, he needs the ball to make plays. He can get plays in the context of the Rams philosophy. If the Rams don't try they made a bad trade and Watkins will be elsewhere next year.