A Case Against Tavon Austin

[nighttrain]

However, I agree with you that it is the electric combo of speed plus absurd change-of-direction quickness that really separated these two from everyone else. Barry is more well known to the modern football crowd. What some may not know about Gale is that he had a wide peripheral vision, allowing him to see out of the corner of his eyes much better than most humans. However, probably the freakiest thing about Gale was his ability to put moves on players coming up behind, players he could not possibly see. An awe-struck OJ Simpson exclaimed, "No one in the history of the NFL has ever been able to do that!" Gale said he couldn't see those players, but he could "feel them" and make reactive moves to thwart their tackling attempts.

It's a crying shame that the medical ligament technology of today was non-existant in Gale's time. Many fans today have no idea how great this guy really was. Keep in mind that at Gale's time (1965-1971), only 16 runners had ever gone over 1000 yards in a season. In 1972, the NFL move the hashmarks closer towards the middle of the field in a move designed to open up the passing game. it actually ended up issuing in the Year of the Run as 10 runners went over 1000 yards in a 14-game season. What would Gale's numbers have looked like if that hashmark realignment had occurred before he entered the NFL?

As great as other runners like Jim Brown are regarded, it was Gale Sayers who the NFL voted as the best halfback of its first 50 years. In 68 games, he provided more thrills than anyone else outside possibly Barry, and, unlike Barry, those thrills included PR's, KR's and reception with ultra long YAC (e.g., 80 yards).

Marshall had the same peripheral vision. I still remember him running through the entire Cleveland defense and making guys behind him miss. Incredible.

i compare, and i think it's justified, Faulk to Austin...Austin smaller, but even quicker with a better top end
train

 

[RamsSince1969]

Golden Taint is only 5 10 and 202 pounds and does very well as much as I hate him. Maybe Austin puts on some weight as time goes on. :| I don't know. Maybe it's best he be off the board before the 16 pick to save us the gamble. I'm really not sure at this point what we should do.

 

[jap]

Golden Taint is only 5 10 and 202 pounds and does very well as much as I hate him. Maybe Austin puts on some weight as time goes on. :| I don't know. Maybe it's best he be off the board before the 16 pick to save us the gamble. I'm really not sure at this point what we should do.

I would love to see him in Horns. He would be our first electric performer since Marshall, with the possible exception of Isaiah, who admittedly hasn't had much opportunity to show more than glimpses thus far.

 

[Angry Ram]

Doug Martin is listed at 5'9" 214 pounds....(and only 3 months older than me ).

So yeah, size isn't the issue...is if he can "do it all" as a WR and not just be another Deseasn Jackson go-route guy.

 

[A55VA6]

Starting to feel Austin won't be there at 16. I really hope he is.

 

[PressureD41]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

IMO, moving Givens to the slot would be a mistake. He's best off on the outside.

Part of my thinking is when Danny Dola was on the sidelines last year Givens took over the Dola role and had a monster game. This is why I say draft a Justin Hunter (or tall wr/ speed) and slide Givens into the slot. The second concern is if we draft another small wr I think the Whiners & Seagulls can Physically dominate us if we have multiple small. Those two defenses are nasty so I rather draft a Justin Hunter later in the draft. At 16 take an OL or DT.

Givens didn't play the slot in that game. He played his normal spot.

I'd rather leave Givens outside, he gave Sherman some problems last year with his speed. Same thing for SF and other teams.

I don't agree that they can physically dominate us. Look at how badly Amendola destroyed San Fran last year. Remember Lloyd against Seattle? He gave their CBs all type of issues.

The weakness for the majority of big CBs is agility and change of direction ability. Sherman and Browner won't be able to cut with a guy like Austin...nor run with him so they better get a great jam on him at the LOS.

All great points and I see your logic on it. But do you agree w/ me that if you had Austin & Cook on the field at the same time it would be more predictable that we would be in pass mode? Just thinking out loud here. Great debate too!


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[Faceplant]

It may be a tip that we could use to our advantage actually. Cook can be used as an inline blocker as well as a move TE, and Austin can be used in or out of the backfield. We could go 21 (or 22) personnel with Austin and Richardson/Pead in the backfield, then break him into the slot or vice versa. The options are endless!!

 

[shaunpinney]

I like Austin, but I'm not sure anymore - I've just got something niggling in the back of my head....

If we were blessed with a full compliment of wide receivers, or would have kept Amendola & Gibson it would be nice to have a change of pace / size, I just think it's a risk to use up a valuable shot on him at the moment... BUT I think he'll be gone before #16

FYI: This week Austin will be working out with the Baltimore Ravens, Carolina Panthers and New England Patriots. He'll also be meeting with the Cincinnati Bengals and Miami Dolphins. Source: The Baltimore Sun

 

[duckhunter]

Here's my take concerning whether we would be tipping pass to the big CBs and defense when Austin and Cook would be on the field together. It's the Billy Jack line: "I'm gonna take this foot and kick you on this side of your head and you can't do a damn thing about it." It's called being owned.

Big CBs and Ss response to quickness and speed that they know they can't handle is hurt the guys and put em out of the game. I can see that happening with TA, Givens, Cook and at least one more speed anomaly on the field at the same time. The slowest and clumbsiest guy in coverage is gonna be toast until they go off coverage and zones.

 

[dieterbrock]

I am hoping he goes before 16 so there wont be any temptation. Personally, I want DaRick Rogers in the 2nd

 

[duckhunter]

I am hoping he goes before 16 so there wont be any temptation. Personally, I want DaRick Rogers in the 2nd

2nd , 3rd and 4th may offer the best value for WRs in this deep class. I'm trying hard not to get locked into one guy there is so much quality.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I am hoping he goes before 16 so there wont be any temptation. Personally, I want DaRick Rogers in the 2nd

Whats up Dieter? Good to see you again.

I think Austin and Patterson will both be gone before #16...unfortunately.

 

[dieterbrock]

Whats up Dieter? Good to see you again.

I think Austin and Patterson will both be gone before #16...unfortunately.

Good to see you too bro. I'll be around more often.

So many good WR in this draft. Patterson is my favorite by far, but he will be first off the board.
I'd love to see DaRick in the 2nd and Honey badger in the 4th for KR duties.

 

[jrry32]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

IMO, moving Givens to the slot would be a mistake. He's best off on the outside.

Part of my thinking is when Danny Dola was on the sidelines last year Givens took over the Dola role and had a monster game. This is why I say draft a Justin Hunter (or tall wr/ speed) and slide Givens into the slot. The second concern is if we draft another small wr I think the Whiners & Seagulls can Physically dominate us if we have multiple small. Those two defenses are nasty so I rather draft a Justin Hunter later in the draft. At 16 take an OL or DT.

Givens didn't play the slot in that game. He played his normal spot.

I'd rather leave Givens outside, he gave Sherman some problems last year with his speed. Same thing for SF and other teams.

I don't agree that they can physically dominate us. Look at how badly Amendola destroyed San Fran last year. Remember Lloyd against Seattle? He gave their CBs all type of issues.

The weakness for the majority of big CBs is agility and change of direction ability. Sherman and Browner won't be able to cut with a guy like Austin...nor run with him so they better get a great jam on him at the LOS.

All great points and I see your logic on it. But do you agree w/ me that if you had Austin & Cook on the field at the same time it would be more predictable that we would be in pass mode? Just thinking out loud here. Great debate too!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn't that essentially what the Patriots and Packers offenses are built around though? Yea, you have a point but at the same time, gotta be able to cover our guys...and makes our running game more effective if they aren't focusing on it.

 

[Rabid Ram]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

IMO, moving Givens to the slot would be a mistake. He's best off on the outside.

Part of my thinking is when Danny Dola was on the sidelines last year Givens took over the Dola role and had a monster game. This is why I say draft a Justin Hunter (or tall wr/ speed) and slide Givens into the slot. The second concern is if we draft another small wr I think the Whiners & Seagulls can Physically dominate us if we have multiple small. Those two defenses are nasty so I rather draft a Justin Hunter later in the draft. At 16 take an OL or DT.

Givens didn't play the slot in that game. He played his normal spot.

I'd rather leave Givens outside, he gave Sherman some problems last year with his speed. Same thing for SF and other teams.

I don't agree that they can physically dominate us. Look at how badly Amendola destroyed San Fran last year. Remember Lloyd against Seattle? He gave their CBs all type of issues.

The weakness for the majority of big CBs is agility and change of direction ability. Sherman and Browner won't be able to cut with a guy like Austin...nor run with him so they better get a great jam on him at the LOS.

All great points and I see your logic on it. But do you agree w/ me that if you had Austin & Cook on the field at the same time it would be more predictable that we would be in pass mode? Just thinking out loud here. Great debate too!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn't that essentially what the Patriots and Packers offenses are built around though? Yea, you have a point but at the same time, gotta be able to cover our guys...and makes our running game more effective if they aren't focusing on it.

Yes it makes it more predictable that is why you utilize playaction

 

[Playmaker]

Here's my thing about Austin. Love his playmaking ability. But let's face it, this is the NFL. It's not the Big XII or Big East. Players like him are taken in the middle rounds, not the first round. T.Y. Hilton, Dexter McCluster, Darren Sproles, Jacoby Ford, Randall Cobb are all examples of the same kind of player Tavon Austin is. Undersized and can never be an every down player in the NFL. Are you really going to use a first round pick on a player that isn't a WR but isn't a RB? He's a weapon, but is under 5'9.

Why spend the #16 or #22 pick on Austin when you can get the same player like Texas' Marquise Goodwin or South Carolina's Ace Sanders in the 3rd or 4th round? Or how about taking an actual WR? A WR that is a playmaker? Markus Wheaton may not have the low 4.3 40 (he ran a 4.45 at Combine) but is a much more polished WR than Austin, Goodwin, and Sanders. And Wheaton could be had in the 2nd round.

 

[A55VA6]

There's just something special about Tavon. What if we passed on him and he became a HOF'er? We knew exactly what we thought he could be and let it slip away. I say if he's there... grab him. No hesitation.

 

[jrry32]

Here's my thing about Austin. Love his playmaking ability. But let's face it, this is the NFL. It's not the Big XII or Big East. Players like him are taken in the middle rounds, not the first round. T.Y. Hilton, Dexter McCluster, Darren Sproles, Jacoby Ford, Randall Cobb are all examples of the same kind of player Tavon Austin is. Undersized and can never be an every down player in the NFL. Are you really going to use a first round pick on a player that isn't a WR but isn't a RB? He's a weapon, but is under 5'9.

T.Y. Hilton produced as much as Justin Blackmon last year despite being stuck behind Donnie Avery for part of the season for an unknown reason. I don't know if I'd use a rookie WR who produced 861 receiving yards and 8 total TDs as a reason not to take Austin...whether or not he was taken in the 3rd.

As for Randall Cobb, same story. Extremely productive player who really emerged last year and big things are expected. You can do a whole lot worse.

And the thing about Austin is that he's more talented than all of them.

As for him not being a WR, that's hogwash.

Playmaker, I know you well and aren't you the guy who chastised the Rams for years for not taking DeSean Jackson? And yet here you are making the same argument against Austin that many made against Jackson. He's too small. And the thing is that Austin comes with all the speed and play-making ability that Jackson had with toughness, physicality, an understanding of how to protect himself and movement skills/elusiveness that Jackson simply didn't have as a prospect.

Do you want the Rams to make that sort of mistake again?(hopefully this time...if we do...it won't be on a reach like Donnie Avery)

Why spend the #16 or #22 pick on Austin when you can get the same player like Texas' Marquise Goodwin or South Carolina's Ace Sanders in the 3rd or 4th round? Or how about taking an actual WR? A WR that is a playmaker? Markus Wheaton may not have the low 4.3 40 (he ran a 4.45 at Combine) but is a much more polished WR than Austin, Goodwin, and Sanders. And Wheaton could be had in the 2nd round.

Because you're not getting the same player. They're not even really comparable. Ace is a returnman. Marquise Goodwin is fast as hell but he's not half the player that Austin is.

It would be like me saying why draft AJ Green when you can get the same player in Austin Pettis in the mid rounds? I mean Austin is 6'3" with great hands.

It's a bad comparison.

As for Wheaton, I love the kid and would love if the Rams drafted him but he doesn't do the same things that Austin does. He's an outside the numbers deep threat like Chris Givens.

What sets Austin is apart is that he has the ridiculous moves, vision and COD ability usually reserved only for scat backs and returnman with elite speed(and I mean elite) but also has the WR skills to be a major contributor there. You're not just talking rare...you're talking non-existent.

You just don't find guys with that type of package. Usually because guys with his athleticism, running ability and size end up as scat back and return specialists and don't develop as a WR. But he has the understanding of coverages, hands, route running ability and ability to track the ball that are necessary to play the WR position at an extremely high level.

That's what sets Austin apart. Unlike Sanders and Goodwin, he doesn't have part of the package. He has the entire package.

 

[Faceplant]

Here's my thing about Austin. Love his playmaking ability. But let's face it, this is the NFL. It's not the Big XII or Big East. Players like him are taken in the middle rounds, not the first round. T.Y. Hilton, Dexter McCluster, Darren Sproles, Jacoby Ford, Randall Cobb are all examples of the same kind of player Tavon Austin is. Undersized and can never be an every down player in the NFL. Are you really going to use a first round pick on a player that isn't a WR but isn't a RB? He's a weapon, but is under 5'9.

T.Y. Hilton produced as much as Justin Blackmon last year despite being stuck behind Donnie Avery for part of the season for an unknown reason. I don't know if I'd use a rookie WR who produced 861 receiving yards and 8 total TDs as a reason not to take Austin...whether or not he was taken in the 3rd.

As for Randall Cobb, same story. Extremely productive player who really emerged last year and big things are expected. You can do a whole lot worse.

And the thing about Austin is that he's more talented than all of them.

As for him not being a WR, that's hogwash.

Playmaker, I know you well and aren't you the guy who chastised the Rams for years for not taking DeSean Jackson? And yet here you are making the same argument against Austin that many made against Jackson. He's too small. And the thing is that Austin comes with all the speed and play-making ability that Jackson had with toughness, physicality, an understanding of how to protect himself and movement skills/elusiveness that Jackson simply didn't have as a prospect.

Do you want the Rams to make that sort of mistake again?(hopefully this time...if we do...it won't be on a reach like Donnie Avery)

Why spend the #16 or #22 pick on Austin when you can get the same player like Texas' Marquise Goodwin or South Carolina's Ace Sanders in the 3rd or 4th round? Or how about taking an actual WR? A WR that is a playmaker? Markus Wheaton may not have the low 4.3 40 (he ran a 4.45 at Combine) but is a much more polished WR than Austin, Goodwin, and Sanders. And Wheaton could be had in the 2nd round.

Because you're not getting the same player. They're not even really comparable. Ace is a returnman. Marquise Goodwin is fast as hell but he's not half the player that Austin is.

It would be like me saying why draft AJ Green when you can get the same player in Austin Pettis in the mid rounds? I mean Austin is 6'3" with great hands.

It's a bad comparison.

As for Wheaton, I love the kid and would love if the Rams drafted him but he doesn't do the same things that Austin does. He's an outside the numbers deep threat like Chris Givens.

What sets Austin is apart is that he has the ridiculous moves, vision and COD ability usually reserved only for scat backs and returnman with elite speed(and I mean elite) but also has the WR skills to be a major contributor there. You're not just talking rare...you're talking non-existent.

You just don't find guys with that type of package. Usually because guys with his athleticism, running ability and size end up as scat back and return specialists and don't develop as a WR. But he has the understanding of coverages, hands, route running ability and ability to track the ball that are necessary to play the WR position at an extremely high level.

That's what sets Austin apart. Unlike Sanders and Goodwin, he doesn't have part of the package. He has the entire package.

/thread

 

[Playmaker]

But jrry32, you made my point even more valid. These types of guys are available in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds. WHy spend a first round pick on Austin when you can get a T.Y. Hilton in the 3rd round (yes I know Hilton isn't in this draft).

And it is your opinion that Sanders and the kid from Texas are not the same player that Austin is. How do you know that they are not? What if you put Austin in the SEC on South Carolina's team? Would he be basically the same as Ace? He is the same type of player as these two. He's not an every down player in the NFL in which you do not take players who aren't on the field for all 3 downs in the first round